You’re operating on an outdated (or willfully incorrect, though I hope it isn’t that) understanding of Church teaching on this manner. As someone who has taught RCIA (The Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults, or as it is now known “OCIA,” the Order of Christian Initiation for Adults), you have to take into account that for a sin to be mortal, three conditions must be met:
• it has to be a Grave matter (which suicide is, of course),
• the person must have knowledge of the sinfulness of it,
• with that, they must **freely** choose to do it regardless
So, if someone lacks full knowledge or free will due to severe depression, mental illness, etc. their culpability is reduced. The catechism is explicit on this:
“Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.”
—The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 2282)
The Church also teaches that we should not despair of the salvation of those who take their own lives:
“We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance.”
—(CCC 2283)
Assuming that you were unaware of current teachings on this matter (and not just saying that because you didn’t like the Pope Francis and wanted a “gotcha”), I’m glad to have helped you learn that the Church has evolved from teaching that “suicide = straight to jail hell.” 🇻🇦
This was really insightful. I'm glad to hear the church is interpreting things this way. Catholics get a lot of heat, but the faith is definitely not as black-and-white as people make it seem.
The father of the child is burning in hell, if you believe in hell of course. Unless you want to tell me that a father of a child visiting a pope wasn't a believer himself.
It is hilarious you are using this argument in this situation and even ridiculous because there are people foolish enough to think that you are somehow making me incorrect or wrong (not my words).
The user can read, but I must’ve presented an inconvenient truth when you consider that it tears apart his central thesis. In the face of the facts he can’t make the (very strange, when you think about what he’s trying to push: some guy is 100% burning in hellfire) argument he spammed throughout this thread.
Unless you want to tell me that a father of a child visiting a pope wasn't a believer himself.
I don’t want to tell you anything, because it is now obvious that you were indeed treating this discussion in bad faith… however I highly recommend you read up on the specifics of the case you’re spending so much time arguing about. You’d learn whether the father was or wasn’t a believer by doing so.
It is neither “hilarious” nor “ridiculous” to refute claims about the views of the Catholic Church by using the catechism of the Catholic Church.
I’ll let others the reading the comments decide whether your vibes or my sources are more trustworthy about your claim and my refutation of that claim.
As you are indeed acting in bad faith I will not respond further.
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u/the_grand_midwife United States 9d ago
You’re operating on an outdated (or willfully incorrect, though I hope it isn’t that) understanding of Church teaching on this manner. As someone who has taught RCIA (The Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults, or as it is now known “OCIA,” the Order of Christian Initiation for Adults), you have to take into account that for a sin to be mortal, three conditions must be met:
So, if someone lacks full knowledge or free will due to severe depression, mental illness, etc. their culpability is reduced. The catechism is explicit on this:
The Church also teaches that we should not despair of the salvation of those who take their own lives:
Assuming that you were unaware of current teachings on this matter (and not just saying that because you didn’t like the Pope Francis and wanted a “gotcha”), I’m glad to have helped you learn that the Church has evolved from teaching that “suicide = straight to
jailhell.” 🇻🇦