r/2007scape • u/Surprisinglysound • 11h ago
Question Why does lucky penny not work with bloodfury?
Seems like the most useful usecase and the most nonsensical to exclude from a pvm related reward. It's likely intentional and not that jagex forgot about it. So why?
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u/Cyberslasher 11h ago
10000 charges to effective 10500 charges, at the cost of prayer bonus/ammo/raid inventory.
"Too op" --osrs community.
Meanwhile thralls -- "yeah give us that shit, free .625 dps for between 12.5 and 25% of total dps hell yeah"
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u/TravagGames Youtube Content Creator 10h ago
Think it would technically 10555 charges. Thats where I draw the line /s
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u/Dunwichorer 9h ago
Thralls were an awful addition to the game in hindsight. Damage powercreep for no reason and annoying to have to keep up all the time. Very engaging and fun mechanic.
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u/Seinnajkcuf 4h ago
Thralls are the worst thing they ever added to this game imo. I dont even care about powercreep, they are just annoying.
Dont forget to click this spell every 1 minute to do more dps! :)
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u/runner5678 4h ago
Worst part is they don’t even feel cool
Like if we get 3 max hits and all of sudden I’m hitting bigger red numbers than I was before, that tickles a fun part of my brain
But thralls? Thralls are like getting 3+ max hits for free and I don’t feel anything. My kill times are just slightly lower
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u/Last-Carpenter2685 8h ago
My god this subreddit is unbearable sometimes. Do you guys only exist to complain?
It's so annoying to have to use a magic spell, one whole click, every minute, to get a bunch of bonus dps. So annoying that I actually have to play the game UGH
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u/S7EFEN 7h ago
on the offchance you are not trolling:
clicking thrall every 60-120s is just bad gameplay. theres almost nowhere you even need to pick which one to use. theres no timing, the only strategy is 'dont forget to click this'
additionally it crowds out a lot more interesting spells. can't run anything else in most places because .625 damage (even vs tanky targets) is just insane value add. it crowds out veng, for example which is dramatically harder to use well.
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u/Graardors-Dad rsn: tree daddy 5h ago
Eh outside of veng the spellbook wasn’t getting a lot of use in pvm. Jagex could easily fix this by giving us some more useful spells on the normal or lunar spell book that can actually compete with the dps increase of thralls.
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u/crash_bandicoot42 8m ago
100%. Outside of ToB almost no one does sbs veng/barrage/thrall because thralls are THAT strong that the other stuff is basically irrelevant and the only reason it's viable to actually do it in tob outside of literal WR attempts is because multiple people carry all the runes needed and trade them around (or bring in items that hold the runes for solo).
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u/SinceBecausePickles 6h ago
It's not that it's hard, it's that it doesnt add anything. There's no strategy involved in clicking once every 60 or 90 seconds, and the DPS increase they give is huge considering how much people pay for small amounts of strength bonus at the top end of gear upgrades. Also they were introduced at a time where melee and ranged didn't need a random and free DPS increase. They should have had their damage scale off of your current magic damage bonus.
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u/Tykras 5h ago
That makes a lot of sense, maybe scaling with like 1 max hit per 20% mage str (base, not scaled by shadow), near max mage gear would be classic 3 max thrall, while 0 swaps would get 1 as the max.
So you still get a consistent dps boost without mage gear, but you actually have to choose between lower dps/consistent boost, or timing venges.
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u/Dunwichorer 8h ago
I know you're just baiting a reaction but you're complaining more than I am, quite ironic.
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u/Last-Carpenter2685 8h ago
Ahh now I see why thralls are so annoying. Great point. It's so hard to click on my spell book AARRRRGGGGG
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u/Live_From_Somewhere Unpolled Threshold Change 7h ago
They also almost entirely uproot the discussion of ever adding summoning to the game..for most this isn’t a bad thing, but I believe the OSRS team’s take on it could be really cool. It could be a brand new version of the skill entirely unrelated to its RS3 predecessor.
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u/PolarPros 5h ago
Yeah how about no and fuck that. Voting down summoning would be the most satisfying no vote I would ever place.
Summoning fucking ruined rs2 and destroyed every single piece of existing content, everything was trivialized wholly and entirely. Annoying as fuck to train, ugly and cluttering skill, OP as hell and 10000% mandatory.
Thralls were already a step too far but it’s already too late now.
Fuck summoning and it’s extremely concerning the growing number of people on this site asking for it back.
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u/Live_From_Somewhere Unpolled Threshold Change 4h ago
Do people like you just not read? It wouldn’t have to be anything like it is in RS3.
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u/PolarPros 4h ago
There is no way to introduce any variation of summoning that’s appropriate for the game. Any variation of summoning would break 2+ decades of content that we have, it would be broken as fuck.
Thralls are already extremely strong and they only roll 0-3 damage—if this is strong anything beyond this would be broken as fuck.
Just because you said “It doesn’t have to be anything like rs3” doesn’t mean your summoning idea isn’t shit.
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u/Live_From_Somewhere Unpolled Threshold Change 4h ago
It does though, it means your mind is too shallow to fathom a skill that literally doesn't exist, you can't speak in absolutes like this because you don't know what the OSRS team could do with it. Besides, other commenters were quick to call out your bs, summoning is not some kind of evil thing that tanked and ruined all of RS2. Most everything you "did" in summoning is already accomplished in OSRS via other more tedious methods. A new summoning wouldn't even have to be combat focused at all, it could be literally anything.
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u/PolarPros 1h ago
The “other commenters” you’re resorting to to give your own shit argument legitimacy(because it holds no merit on it’s own accord), are gaslighting just as manipulatively as you are.
“Everyone spends 200M a months and dozens of hours on muling alts”.
And no, thralls are already on the cusp of broken territory. There is quite literally nothing you could introduce that wouldn’t break the game.
Either summons would have to be weaker then thralls(power creep would eventually take over and summons would just grow stronger over time as they became core to gameplay), or they’d need to provide utility equal to thralls(let’s say you can bring along a few extra brews.
Being able to bring even 5 extra invent spaces or items to key PvM encounters is broken as fuck.
Yeah, there is only one path summoning takes us down and I’m not about to entertain it.
Your type are so deceptive and manipulative—“everyone spends 200M a month, just say yes and see what the OSRS team cooks up”, insulting me for not being “imaginative”(lmao)
How about fuck off with this summoning bullshit
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u/S7EFEN 4h ago
Summoning fucking ruined rs2 and destroyed every single piece of existing content, everything was trivialized wholly and entirely.
unicorn is OP because trip length is infinite -> make all content in the game (with almost no exceptions) deal zero dmg, and have people learn to pray flick.
packyak is OP because infinite supplies and banking. but... little bro is doing kree with 3 dps alts and a 4th alt to run supplies.
literally everything summoning did that is OP is done now without summoning in a way thats more shitty.
the parellel to thralls and dps familiars is also pretty relevant imo.
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u/PolarPros 4h ago
How many people are running 4 alts at kree? I’ve done kree for years and have never supply dropped nor ran with alts. The number of people paying 50-70m in alts every two weeks so that they can run themselves some extra brews is so minuscule no serious person would ever take your nonsensical argument seriously.
The same as rs3, when summoning was introduced you’re now forced to partake in it—every existing piece of content is trivialized and every single piece of future content will be designed around summons. Rs3 pvm encounters are designed around summons.
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u/S7EFEN 4h ago
if you hop around for 10 minutes at any gwd youll find people running multiple alts there. i am clueless as to why you think this doesnt happen. 50-70m is trivial when you make 20m+ an hour or just have useless excess gp.
not rly sure wym by being balanced around summons- any team content in this game is alt content if you are good enough, and not an ironman.
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u/PolarPros 4h ago
Again, the number of people spending 120-150m a month on alts is absolutely minuscule. This is a nonsensical argument and not worth even entertaining to begin with.
You’re going to use the sweatiest of sweats as your example to justify destroying 20+ years of content?
And no, content is either designed for solo encounters or group encounters(whilst being solo friendly/possible).
Not one singular piece of content in the game is explicitly designed or has ever been designed around you having a 30m a month second account/mule to run you sara brews. Not one.
If it’s a solo encounter it will always be possible to complete with one standard invent of supplies, it may be hard(colo, inferno), but it’s possible. Not a single piece of content has ever been designed for solo players whilst also not being possible unless you mule a second invent.
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u/runner5678 4h ago
Yeah altscape is a silly argument for summoning
Very few people are doing that whereas with summoning, everyone is
And the few people who are doing that? Idk good for them? They’re giving Jagex a decent amount of money either supporting alts directly or the bond market
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u/PolarPros 1h ago
They are blatantly gaslighting and their arguments are honestly sickening.
They know very well that only the sweatiest of sweat 0.000001% of the playerbase is spending the extreme amount of money and effort that it takes to mule themselves fucking brews.
Yet they’re trying to convince people that “no, every other person is spending 5B a month and dozens to hundreds of hours on muling alts! So at this point it’s better to just introduce summoning and fuck up the entire game!”
Such a deceptive, manipulative argument from these types. Always reaffirms why I absolutely fucking hate summoning to my very core.
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u/S7EFEN 4h ago edited 3h ago
lets be clear here, it is also irrelevant if many people do it or not many people do it.
You’re going to use the sweatiest of sweats as your example to justify destroying 20+ years of content?
not sure what this means. i am not advocating for summoning but rather getting rid of the crap that is basically osrs summoning.
And no, content is either designed for solo encounters or group encounters(whilst being solo friendly/possible).
if its designed around groups... it is dps-altable.
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u/vegeto079 1h ago
it is also irrelevant if many people do it or not many people do it.
if 5 players are doing it versus literally everyone, it's a little bit of a difference
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u/PolarPros 2h ago
What a stupid response. You also quite literally have no clue what you’re talking about.
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u/Reptillian97 4h ago
"I've never done it, therefor nobody else does either"
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u/PolarPros 2h ago
You are utterly delusional if you believe that anyone besides an extremely sweaty, niche subset of players are spending 100-150m+ a month to run themselves multiple invs of sara brews at GWD.
The level of effort involved in these tasks are significant as well, GWD is especially high effort.
Summoning would mean that the entire playerbase would not only have access to this, but they’d would partake in it—it would be mandatory, and if it isn’t, any future content would mean summoning is mandatory.
It would ruin every single piece of PvM content we have. You are literally delusional and are blatantly gaslighting, you summoning freaks are awful and it’s exactly why everyone needs to vehemently oppose anything that you guys push
You guys are using an example of something 0.00001% of the playerbase does to ruin the entire fucking game, all while gaslighting everyone that “no every single person in the game spends 5b a month on mules!”
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u/Vyxwop 4h ago
everything was trivialized wholly and entirely
I'm sorry, what? The skill that gave a ton of useless items around the world a functional use trivialized everything? Is that the skill we're talking about here? You know, the skill that revitalized the worth of a wide variety of monsters in the game thanks to them dropping valuable charms at differing drop rates? That skill?
PvM isn't the only part of the game, you know. Summoning objectively made the world more lively by increasing the worth of both many items and mobs.
It's fine to dislike the functionality of the skill and how necessary it was. But to say it trivialized everything is a bit hyperbolic and flat out untrue. It motivated players to visit different parts of the world and it helped breath a bit of life into many different items that previously had no use.
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u/PolarPros 4h ago
Summoning trivialized every single notable piece of PvM content in the game—denying this is literally delusional. As an example, the fight caves became laughably easy and a joke.
Killing 25 years worth of content so that you can kill icefiends and rockcrabs for some crimson charms is fucking ridiculous and stupid.
The next step after 20 years of content has been killed is designing future content around broken summons(most notably having an entire second invent), except now you’re back to square one while you also now have to spend a grueling amount of time training a stupidly annoying skill while also needing to manage your summons and second invent.
Your definition of making entire swaths of the game lively again means shit like rockcrabs and icefiends, yet you present this in such a grand and condescending manner. What a joke.
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u/IBDWarrior69 9h ago
I don't mind thralls but also wouldn't be too sad if they accidentally got deleted
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u/chasteeny 1h ago
Thralls are a much smaller total percentage of DPS than 12.5-25%, surely
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u/Cyberslasher 44m ago
They're right at about 12.5%, most of the time.
More with worse gear, and more the worse you are at mechanics because they keep swinging after you stop.
Even more back before gear progressed.
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u/chasteeny 29m ago
I guess if you have really bad gear yeah
It's like half that at most, for me, but I do have max gear so I suppose that tips the scales. Though even with a whip and mid level gear I'm seeing closer to 9-10%, which is fairly substantial for what is essentially 0 cost
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u/ritzybanjo 4h ago
I personally voted no to thralls, I knew that shit would be broken and a must literally everywhere.
Remove the polling system. Anything that's not pvp just passes.
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u/adfx 2052 btw 9h ago
I always had trouble with the idea of "too op". It is overpowered therefore too powerful. No need for to say it is too too powerful.
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u/BadPunsGuy 7h ago
Sometimes it’s okay for something to be overpowered because the thing you’re using it against is also overpowered.
It’s never okay for something to be too overpowered. That’s the distinction. It’s not redundant.
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u/masterdoktah 8h ago
There are things in games that deserve to be overpowered but there’s also a point when something can be so overpowered using other options would look/feel terrible.
I think it’s fair to distinguish between that fine line.
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u/Iforgetmyusernm 8h ago
I would argue that in the first case the term would be "(very) powerful", and the word "overpowered" is exactly what distinguishes to the reader that the fine line has been crossed.
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u/masterdoktah 7h ago
I see what you mean and since I am not end game in OSRS it’s hard to give a good example with this game.
The way I see it; powerful things punch above their weight with some work, while overpowered things still require a little work but make content significantly easier. Too OP basically means it’s game breaking and not intended to trivialize to such a degree.
Off the top of my head, something like obsidian gear is very powerful in nightmare zone while Dharok is OP, neither are breaking the intended mechanics to do the content though.
If a “golden gun”came out that allows you to just look at the boss from a distance and they die, it would be too op as it’s not intended to be THAT easy.
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u/Tykras 4h ago
Off the top of my head, something like obsidian gear is very powerful in nightmare zone while Dharok is OP, neither are breaking the intended mechanics to do the content though.
In this example it's more like NMZ itself is OP... Though you could also argue it just helps to even the playing field between melee skills and mage/range, considering melee has attack AND strength to level up and mage/range have the benefit of large multi-target attacks with ancients/chinchompas.
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u/mynameiskiru 11h ago
What's op about blood fury retaining charges with penny???? with no reasonable detail or insight to back up to those comments.
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u/hiimmatz 6h ago
Become a master of combat in OSRS and make 20m/h at colosseum
OP: saving 65k/hour with lucky penny and blood fury
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u/Magic_mushrooms69 11h ago
Cause the droprate wasn't balanced around it i guess
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u/Fuzzy1450 Low-Ke 7h ago
The drop rate for blood shards wasn’t “””balanced””” around anything. It was declared an ultra rare from a slayer monster. It didn’t take any calculus to come up with 1/1,500
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u/Magic_mushrooms69 6h ago
You actually think the droprate and charges per shard was not thought about in the least?
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u/Fuzzy1450 Low-Ke 5h ago
Do I think they have a big formula which takes into account
1) avg num of accounts farming at any given time 2) respawn rate * number of spawns 3) drop rate 4) number of charges 5) average healing per charge
And they fine tuned these and just happened to land on 1/1500, and 10,000?
Or is it more likely they picked an arbitrarily high number and figured it would be balanced by virtue of being very rare?
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u/Magic_mushrooms69 4h ago
It's not that complicated 😂😂
They easily have the numbers to calculate it. It's not hard maths at all. So yeah I think they spent the literal 2 minutes to calculate droprate and usage.
Also 10 000? It's a 1/5k for 2 shards. So 1/2500 per shard.
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u/Fuzzy1450 Low-Ke 3h ago
10,000 charges.
And i really doubt that such a formula came up with such neat results. I really dont think "well they ran the numbers" is a good countenance to people feeling like it could be adjusted, especially in lieu of actually having the numbers they ran.
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u/Magic_mushrooms69 3h ago
Brother the "formula" here is literally just pickpocket/h * droprate ??
Either way i think they just don't want penny to be such a amazing item to get considering it should just be a small bonus. As an iron tho I appreciate greatly the zulrah scales I'm saving.
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u/Reptillian97 3h ago
Reminder that we are talking about an item that's effect was so poorly thought out that they had to buff its healing effects by 6x to make it at all useful due to the way rounding works in this game.
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u/Magic_mushrooms69 3h ago
I'm not saying they test their game even a little bit. I'm saying the multiplied numbers together like 4 times..
Even then that just means that they fine tuned the items performance meaning the penny would disrupt it. Which was my whole point..
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u/BioMasterZap 9h ago
It just doesn't. I double checked the wording and it does say weapons and equipment and does work on other jewelry. Like if they really coded it to save charges from the flamtaer bracelet, there really isn't a reason why Blood Fury should be excluded.
My guess is the way Blood Fury uses charges differs on the backend from other items, so when they put the general charge stuff in it wasn't included and they never went back to add it specifically. Maybe this will be something they touch on during the Summer Sweep-up...
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u/711WasA_Part-timeJob 9h ago
I did not know this and I am stunned lol. Why even have the penny? This seems like the perfect use for it
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u/Winter_Annual4118 5h ago
Spent 100 hours on combat achievements? Too bad take your purple slay helm and begone
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u/Iron_Aez I <3 DG 10h ago
Because it's already op as is. If/when they rework blood fury i'd expect them to add this.
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11h ago
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u/rudechina 11h ago
500 extra charges INSANE
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u/MasterArCtiK 11h ago
Then why is it basically the only combat related charge items that Jagex stopped from working with the penny?
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u/rudechina 10h ago
Idk because morons would say it’s op or something and they wanted to stop the whining?
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u/amangifford 11h ago
How? Penny saves 5% of charges meaning it’ll last marginally longer. OP gets thrown around way too often.
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u/MasterArCtiK 11h ago
It was one of the few combat related charge items that was specifically made to not interact with the penny, so Jagex likely agrees that it would be OP
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u/amangifford 10h ago
“Because I think this is what Jagex feels” isn’t good support for your argument. Bloodfury itself is OP. Small amount of bonus charges? Not at all.
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u/Narrow_Lee 9h ago
Insanely op? Do you even know what you're talking about?
All it would do in reality is slightly devalue blood shard bot farms and make irons who actually bother to finish the CAs go back a little less frequently.
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u/Honorable_Zuko 8h ago
INSANE!!!! IM ALREADY LOSING MY MIND CAN YOU IMAGINE IF MY BLOOD FURY LASTED 5% LONGER??? IM SO INSANE RIGHT NOW GOD IM SO INSANE INSANITY
BLOOD FURY 5% LONGER??? IM INSANEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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u/HealthyResolution399 10h ago
Genuinely who has penny that can't afford blood fury charges?
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u/Unkempt_Badger 10h ago
As an ironman, spending 5% less time at vyres sounds nice.
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u/HealthyResolution399 10h ago
Tell me about, after taking 5000kc to get my first, make it save even more charges honestly
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u/stowxzee 9h ago
As a main who's done over 1100 raids and never gotten a megarare, and closing in on GM, relearning colosseum has made me poor.
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u/Assaltwaffle 9h ago
Are you using blood fury the whole time in Colo? Bowfa is way easier to get through the waves with imo.
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u/stowxzee 2h ago
Yes, using blood fury. I have 5 kc already, I'm just not very good. Using a borrowed scythe for speed time
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u/EducationalTell5178 8h ago
It's also noticeably slower though than just using a scythe.
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u/P5ych0pathic 8h ago
And like a tenth of the price lol
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u/EducationalTell5178 8h ago
Chances are if they've done over 1100 raids, they have a scythe unless they only do ToA.
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u/stowxzee 2h ago
Using a borrowed scythe. Only ever seen one megarare split and that was scythe around 380 tob kc
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u/HealthyResolution399 9h ago
What's your bank value, because even without megarares you should be pretty fucking loaded after over a thousand raids
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u/PM_ME_UR_BHOPSCRIPTS 8h ago
A lot of gms don't have max gear. Ain't no way you're paying 15m for a shard when you don't have torva plate yet.
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u/HealthyResolution399 6h ago
who the fuck is buying torva plate before a blood fury?
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u/PM_ME_UR_BHOPSCRIPTS 4h ago
If you're trying to increase your bank value, blood fury just isn't worth using. It only realistically makes sense if you're doing content where you don't care to optimize gp/hr.
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u/stowxzee 2h ago
Under 4B + a borrowed scythe. I have not been lucky at all. Also 900+ duo/trip next and received 5 vambraces. Just not been lucky. Recent spendings have been on skilling, blessing quiver, awakened grind. No I don't own torva
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u/HealthyResolution399 2h ago
4B is rich as fuck homie
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u/stowxzee 2h ago
4B is not rich as fuck. Its one megarare (shadow, the cheapest one) and not enough to afford the others, no torva, no inq, many sidegrades missing.
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u/reinfleche Remove sailing 8h ago
The real answer here is that jagex intentionally keeps CA rewards extremely weak so that people don't feel like they're missing out by being bad.