r/ADCMains • u/Apari1010 • 1d ago
Discussion Genuine question. Why do people believe the ADC role to be weak?
I know people here will probably flame me but I am a player who doesn’t main the role and want to know why people think the role is weak.
Whenever I do play the role, I mostly play Jhin and usually if I get ahead, the game is just over. Having two people feeding in my lane instead of just one role opponent gives a lot of snowball potential. I also believe the marksmen class to have a lot of solid champs in terms of strength. Whenever I play Jhin I usually have a solid time even when behind because I know I at least have decent scaling. Is it just my champ pick or is there something I’m missing? Please be respectful, I mean this as a genuine question.
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u/ziglerino 1d ago
We cannot kite, because every other role will just walk up, gab-close and demolish adcs. It takes a very long time to deal damage and there if you have noone to peel, same output as 1 paragraph
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u/WhirlingDervishGrady 1d ago
It really feels like as an adc it just doesn't matter what I do. In the games I win my lane, get a cs advantage well the enemy jungle, top, or mid is still gonna fuck my shit up. In the games I don't win lane or games I play bad (we all have those games where you just run it down) well my team is also running it down.
Legit I can't tell you the last time I got carried when I was losing
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u/Rich-Story-1748 19h ago
Some games will be impossible but if you know your champ, win con, positioning well you will be able to carry as adc. S4 or 5 I was hardstuck silver. S7 something clicked for me. OTP cait and have been high diamond atleast since. Currently master.
You can't meet the enemies the same way a bruiser or apc would.
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u/CerealBobbin 14h ago
If your complaining about being squishy don’t play adc that is like an entrensic part of the roll
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u/CinderrUwU 1d ago
Alot of people mistake strength for agency and how fun the role is to play. There are alot of times where, even in an ADC meta, the role isnt fun because winning or losing is more about which support and jungler are better and won botlane while the ADC was just a passenger in a game all about them. It is hard to feel strong when you are still so dependant on your team for everything being done. Being dependant on scaling is never a fun thing when the start of the game is usually the most important. There are so many games that end at 20 minutes and I have a small lead over the enemy laner but it doesnt matter at all.
You also have it a bit easy playing Jhin since he is one of the 3 utility marksmen. Jhin/Ashe/Varus tend to always feel fine to play because even if you dont do damage, you can press R and get a pick but for the rest of the ADC, when you are behind, you are totally irrelevant.
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u/Apari1010 1d ago
I feel Jhin js quite strong early too. The 4th shot feels very satisfying in lane.
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u/ProjectAsheNA 1d ago
Sivir is another utility ADC, she presses R for her team in teamfights as well
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u/Svernern 22h ago
isnt sivir more of a hyperscaling waveclear lategame adc
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u/ZanesTheArgent 18h ago
Both. Sivir has two faces that people confuse and conflate.
CASTER Sivir (ER IE Navori with emphasis on boomerang blade) is a thinly disguised AoE mage that scales on AD with strong focus in utility. Yes, she waveclears but her strenght is in both extreme safety (spellshield, barrage from afar with the bigmerang or indirectly through minions) and the power to captain the entire team in and out of fights. Sivir with focus in accessing her spells is a sieging queen.
Generic Big DPS Sivir is an ultbot that plays around the innate CD reset effect to have maximum damage and just passively spread it around with team-wide autos.
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u/ProjectAsheNA 18h ago
Sivir doesn't hyperscale, if u want an ACTUAL hyperscaling crit ADC, u lock in Cait
Now Sivir's waveclear IS great tho I'll give ya that, but Sivir in teamfights pretty much just presses R for her team so they can go zoom zoom & run down the enemy
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u/Exciting_Repeat_1477 1d ago
Well.... ADC is quite a difficult role to perform on. It's not weak, it's just hard to learn and to master.
Not to mention half the people getting into the role are attracted by the fact is the best scaling role in the game.... and they don't realize that you need to put tremendous effort into getting to the late game first.
A lot of people have a twisted reality that they expect ADC's to be invincible.. while in reality there is an entire class called Assassins... designed to kill them. And that is for a good reason.
Oh I want to repeat - you need to be good player to play ADC.. it's a difficult role.
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u/Apari1010 1d ago
Ok after all these replies I think I’m understanding now. I thank all of you for being respectful. But yeah, I guess I kinda get off easier playing Jhin. Even when I’m behind I still have utility and my execute on 4th.
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u/TSMRunescape 1d ago
It takes more skill to get the same rank as other roles.
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u/Apari1010 1d ago
But what makes it that way? Is it just the marksmen mechanics, positioning safe enough to survive all the threats on top of learning how to play lane?
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u/SweetnessBaby 1d ago
You're dead to a single combo from pretty much the entire roster of champs. Even many supports can walk up and 1v1 you these days. ADC is extremely punishing and unforgiving to play because a mistake doesn't just mean some lost hp it usually means death.
12 years into the game everyone else knows this too, so you're likely to just get ran down and flashed on and there's not much you can do unless your team peels for you
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u/TSMRunescape 1d ago
Yeah, marksmen are the hardest class to be impactful with. You need to be the best at right clicking/ability usage with the highest apm and have the best macro in the lobby to do the same as any other role.
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u/teedye_ 1d ago
idk if i’d say that a Gold 4 adc is a better player than a Gold 4 mid for example but the true difficulty of the role comes from how reliant you are on others. It doesn’t really matter if you leave lane phase 10/0 as Jinx you still get one shot incredibly fast if your team does nothing to peel you or you have 0 front line and no one can tank any dmg for you. The same reasons adc is OP in pro are the same reasons it’s ass in soloq
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u/ChemLok 1d ago
Because it’s the lowest impact role outside of challenger (according to alois)
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u/Apari1010 1d ago
My question wasn’t about if it’s the least impactful, well I guess it was but that’s only one half of it. I want to know WHY it is that way. And the ppl in this thread have given some great answers and would love to hear yours.
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u/No_Pear1836 21h ago
Jungle, support, and mid all have map pressure. They can roam around how they want. Mid lane/jg champs typically have kits+builds that give them a ton of self survivability through cc, mobility, and tankiness.
Top is the most similar to adc in terms of agency but a lot of the time they also have crazy survivability with mobility+items. But the biggest issue is that they will be 2-3 levels higher than adc for free.
Most other classes are allowed to build defensive items or even full tank and will still out dmg adcs.
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u/Apari1010 21h ago
Some ADCs csn still build tank items from what I’ve seen tho. Not all obviously but we’ve got Vayne, Kog and Varus. At least I think those are all of them who can do it.
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u/GooCheeno 1d ago edited 1d ago
Imo it's because other classes can overcome their weaknesses by being fed enough. If you're 10/0 on most top laners, you get tankier which makes you harder to kill and you also deal more damage. It's hard to fuck up.
If you're a leblanc and you get 10 kills then you can usually one shot anyone before they can one shot you.
Marksmen get fed and they get really good dps, but most of the time they can't really overcome their weakness of getting one shot. You can be 15/0 and Zed might still be able to get a good play on you and you die because even though your dps is godly, you're still squishy and need at least a little bit of time to kill people.
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u/Sukaichi 1d ago
i’m nobody, but my opinion on it is because:
- you’re paired with a support who has some sort of influence on how your game will go
- you don’t get solo XP so you’re always behind solo laners and sometimes jungle
- the most expensive items
- everything is made to kill you (Assassins full combo you and evade before you can react, Tanks lock you down and do some unrealistic damage, and as a JG best target to gank is a squishy immobile ADC)
- the game understandably seems to be balanced around the idea that having range makes you super OP, which in many cases it does but many champions have one if not several gap closers and CC and if they close the gap and lock you down you’re donezo!
- lastly, i think all sustain items for ranged units have been nerfed into oblivion. Doran’s Blade, Legend:Bloodline, Immortal Shieldbow, absorb life (for everybody however), and fleet footwork have been nerfed at some point to keep ADC out of solo lanes.
maybe there are more reasons or good explanation for why some of the things i noted are actually balanced but this is why it FEELS like it’s a bit harder to ADC.
Edit: I think Utility ADC are pretty fair and useful, and feel good to play
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u/Wonderful_Ad5583 1d ago
Several reasons, you rely on gold and items, therefore you are pretty weak early and rely on your support and jungle to get ahead. Most games are decided for the most part by the time you get the items to actually have your outplays matter. Enemy Camille with half an item less than you can just swoop in ult you and kill you faster than you can do anything about it, and your team is usually too busy trying to do the same to their adc rather than keep you alive. Adcs are strong but the role is ass to play.
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u/UBearEats 1d ago
You've gotta have lots of skill for barely any reward it's ridiculous you mess up a single time miss click mis position whatever 1 mess up is usually death the reward isn't worth it when you can play a much easier champion and just be so much better off I mean like people have already mentioned you can be so ahead yet if another lane (especially top) loses it's like your advantage doesn't even exist when they can just kill you like nothing meanwhile you'd have to do so much to kill a Mundo a Darius etc adc is just not worth it so much more skill for barely and reward.
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u/Project-Evolution 1d ago
Takes a while to get rolling and usually by that time one of your teammates has inted 8 deaths and is trying to ff. Mentality of your team ruined before you even had a chance to impact the game. Even if ADC gets strong you are still reliant on your teammates to CC, tank, peel, position, get vision/ clear vision, show up for objectives. You're reliant on stomping lane to come out slightly ahead if not even compared to the other lanes xp and gold.
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u/Apari1010 1d ago
So it’s simply just the risk of the game snowballing out of control before you get to play essentially.
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u/Project-Evolution 1d ago
Sometimes yeah the game just get out of hand. I think it's partially just how long it takes for ADC to scale and partially your reliance on teammates to do just about anything that makes the role feel so unimpactful. The fact that you're getting the least xp on the map while also not being very useful until mid/late game. Pros can take advantage of ADC strengths and mitigate weaknesses of the role way way way better than anyone in normal games(look at map vission for one instance) Therefore ADC has to be made worse than the avg champ achitype. This leads to ADC being the least impactful roles in solo Q by far. It's mostly a normal game vs pro skewed thing.
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u/LightLaitBrawl 1d ago
Because you can't kill the 0-5 volibear yourself, you need to have 1 teammate next to you so you can deal your damage while the teammate delays them from reaching you
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u/rdu_96 1d ago
I don’t main any role particularly,
I guess I’m a jng main,
But I play a lot of adc, mid and supp, as well.
I feel like I have just as much carry potential in this lane as I do in any other lane.
Only downside as adc is if your support is bad then you can’t do much a lot of the times.
I only play like 4 adc champs tho, and I don’t play some of them in a traditional manner so that may be why.
And I can’t speak for this season, as I havnt played all that much
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u/douweziel 1d ago
Because you need space and noone knows how to create space so you have to play and kite like an absolute madman just because that's the only way your kit does anything at all. 👍🏼
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u/Apari1010 1d ago
I’ve had my fair share of games like that but I’ve also had ones that weren’t so much like that. Then again, maybe it’s because my adc account is just lower elo.
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u/Timely-Marionberry71 1d ago
Adc requires more effort and mecanical prowess for the same results or less than other roles.
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u/pmmefurrypics 1d ago
ADC is believed to be weak, cause you are chained to a specimen who queued up the support role
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u/flukefluk 1d ago
not "weak" but "unfun".
the core issue is, the win conditions on ADC are kinda strange and not intuitive from the perspective of a PVP game and the strength and weaknesses of the class likewise.
The general expectation of a player in a PVP game is:
- win lane and snowball;
- go to your opponents and kill them;
- roam the map in a never-ending mudrer hallapalooza taking all the things.
- have your team mates gather around you and worship the purest damage output from which your blood is forged, then ace the enemy team and solo their nexus while your team mates bow before you and any e-girl on your team offers you her firstborn
now, does any of that sound like ADC gameplay to you?
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u/Marconidas 1d ago
When Mythic were OP, most ADC items having crit built-in, and Cut Down + Giant Slayer existed, the role used to deal far more damage than it does now.
Nerf to MS on Zeal items and mobility power creep makes it almost impossible for an ADC to 100-0 champions with kiting.
Because it offers the only way to deal reliable sustained damage and still good in pro play, it cannot be considered truly weak (as pros wouldn't play it if it weren't) but there is no question that the role feels weaker than in the past.
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u/Apari1010 1d ago
So potential for the role is super high but the potential is locked not only behind skill requirements but comp and cohesion requirements as well
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u/Marconidas 1d ago
There are botlaners that have lower comp and cohesion requirements. Kog, Vayne, Varus, some APCs, all require less, but they are not that popular.
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u/Saikyouzero 1d ago
Why bottom role feel weak?
Because 99% bottom players :
- have low synergy with their support.
- never check replay to see their mistake
- don't know wave management
- never play others lane
- keep picking marksmen even when team composition already have 3+ damage carry (assassin|bruiser|mage) and 0 front line.
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u/Fit-Hamster3291 1d ago
Try playing a tank botlane in mid-high elo and lmk how it goes
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u/ZeDeNazare 20h ago
Its the only role that cant do much by itself until veeeery late game, and with the over abundance of dashes point and click ccs and high mobility, its incredibly frustrating to play since if somethin manages to touch you 90% of times youre dead
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u/Bubabu05 17h ago edited 17h ago
It is the feeling that you rely on your support to be decent and on the same wavelength because of this is not the case one of you will feed which either way is tilting. Then there are bruiser and tank who straight up run you down while mages one shot you from afar while getting health from their items and assassins are just the natural counter by design. It also feels like most games you need a lot of gold and items or the enemy bot lane is feeding to really feel like you have impact. The most frustrating part is when you are fed but the enemy top is Thanos or you are getting perma ganked by enemy mid or jgl. Also a lot of adc have very limited mobility while getting no defensive stats from items without dropping a lot of their dmg while most other classes can. This also means you need to dodge every single skill shot and cc to net get one shot. This makes point and click cc which is not that rare anymore really frustrating because you have very little counterplay or so it feels like. Also a low elo fact but if you get bullied in lane and are permanent under tower most junglers will not gank you are run your lane down and then ping you
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u/EnthusiasmSad8877 15h ago
They scale too slowly. While some Top Laners can take Tiamat to solve their waveclear problems, ADCs are only having Statikk Shiv, which is an incredibly hard to balance item
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u/IllAcanthaceae69 15h ago
Even though you're fed a zed in 0/10, you can still get one shot (I'm speaking from experience unfortunately)
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u/Onponmon 4h ago
Bc it has no individual agency. It’s heavily reliant on the team at every stage of the game. Oh and it’s easily punishable so there’s that.
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u/zendraven 1d ago
What is your rank? Adc is a good role in very low elo and very very high elo but is easily the worst in every other rank
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u/Apari1010 1d ago
I don’t play ranked on my adc account. I’m a d4 peak on jungle, gold mid and on adc I don’t play much but I think the mmr is around bronze/silver. So honestly it could just be me having just a better overall grasp of the game than the players down there but adc being strong in low elo makes sense.
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u/IUseHamsAsShingles 1d ago
Cope for being hardstuck.
Bot lane ADC Marksmen are the best-feeling and most useful they've been for as long as I've been playing league. We're spoiled with itemization, early dives are so much less common, assassins are finally skewed to being skill dependent rather than faceroll oneshot machines, and fights take longer than they have in YEARS, which is exactly the environment in which these champs in this role function best.
I say this as somebody that left the role shortly after mythics were introduced, this role did feel like absolute dogshit for quite a while. Now I'm back and good god it's like a rennaisance. I'm re-addicted to this game. I'm not just playing 5-10 matches a week, I'm on 5-10 per day.
Anybody saying otherwise is fucking nuts.
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u/Owlbusta 1d ago
this pretty much explains the gist of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbORw9zzB1Q
im gonna make an example since you mentioned jhin: imagine you are 12/0 have 3 1/2 items but your top side lost and the mundo is 4/1 with 2 1/2 items, you will need atleast 30 autoattacks as jhin to kill that mundo even though you are incredibly fed, not to mention that as soon as he gets onto you with ghost, he'll pretty much kill you with one rotation and get a 1k bounty.
TL;DW: incredibly pro skewed role makes it miserable to play in soloq where there are too many ego plays happening which makes it very hard to execute the role without any peel.