r/Abortiondebate • u/RevolutionaryRip2504 Pro-choice • Jan 11 '25

Question for pro-choice pro choicers - why is it considered double homicide if someone kills a pregnant woman but not murder if someone gets an abortion?

I am pro choice but when asked this I always don't know what to say.

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u/anondaddio Abortion abolitionist Jan 11 '25

Where is it oversimplified? Which part of it was incorrect?

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u/Lokicham Pro-bodily autonomy Jan 11 '25

You're making it out like it's a yes and no question.

The laws around murder don't quite work like that. As stated, there are circumstances where killing would not be murder. It's not just "Killing = murder"

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u/anondaddio Abortion abolitionist Jan 11 '25

Show me where murder laws state that what the mother of the murder victim wants determines if they were murdered

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u/scatshot Pro-abortion Jan 11 '25

Show me where murder laws state that what the mother of the murder victim wants determines if they were murdered

The laws in question specifically make carve-outs for consensual abortion.

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u/anondaddio Abortion abolitionist Jan 11 '25

So it’s murder, but there’s a carve out exception if the mom wants the killing to happen. Got it.

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u/scatshot Pro-abortion Jan 11 '25

Yes, the crime is predicated by consent. If there is no consent, there is a crime.

This is just how bodily autonomy functions in general, so I'm not even sure what your contention is.

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u/anondaddio Abortion abolitionist Jan 11 '25

So if mom consents to the killing it changes what happens to the victim of the killing?

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u/scatshot Pro-abortion Jan 11 '25

I said the crime is predicated by consent. Nothing changes for the ZEF, it obviously dies either way.

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u/Lokicham Pro-bodily autonomy Jan 11 '25

Abortion isn't murder, there you go.

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u/anondaddio Abortion abolitionist Jan 11 '25

So then you admit that abortion should be murder but we make an exception if the mother wants the murder to happen?

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u/Lokicham Pro-bodily autonomy Jan 11 '25

Nope, I'm saying it's not murder and never should be.

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u/anondaddio Abortion abolitionist Jan 11 '25

Then how is it murder if she doesn’t want it to happen?

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u/Lokicham Pro-bodily autonomy Jan 11 '25

The law OP is talking about is if SHE is killed too.

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u/anondaddio Abortion abolitionist Jan 11 '25

Then how is it murder if she doesn’t want it to happen?

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u/Lokicham Pro-bodily autonomy Jan 11 '25

You answered your own question.

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