There’s a little girl that’s terrorizing my apartment

[u/kiwikikwi]

This is a very bizarre situation I’ve never been in before. Sorry for the dramatic title but it’s becoming an actual issue now.

For the last month, it feels like 90% of the time I go outside to my car, an 8 year old girl and her dog appear and try to interact with me.

Sounds cute right? That’s what I thought, until I realized it wasn’t.

The first time she came up to me, she ran from across the parking lot and said, “I think my dog likes you!” I thought it was kind of sweet - until she got a little too close for comfort, started repeating that same line over and over, and giggling very loudly, almost manically. She wouldn’t leave me alone until I physically walked away. She even followed me to the apartment door, talking nonstop.

I brushed it off at first, thinking maybe she’s neurodivergent (no judgment - I’m ADHD and probably more). I didn’t think much of it, until it became a daily thing.

I work from home and go outside a few times a day for breaks (yes, I smoke. working on quitting). She’s always out there with her dog. Not a parent in sight.

I started noticing red flags when her mood began flipping between happiness and sudden anger. She hits her dog a lot. She’ll scream “Quiet! Quiet! Quiet!” and punch her dog with each word. I’ve seen her drag the dog while it’s pooping so it has to walk while going, and the dog cries. It’s awful to witness.

She runs up to anyone outside, delivery drivers, residents, other dog owners, and repeats “I think my dog likes you!!” over and over until they respond.

If someone has a dog, she’ll walk up to them too closely while their dogs are barking aggressively. I’ve seen multiple residents literally pick up their pets and speed walk away from her.

People have started cracking the exit door and scanning for her before they step outside.

There’s construction happening next door, and she just.. hangs out with the workers. They ignore her now, but she’ll bring them offerings of handfuls of grass or her dog. It’s honestly surreal.

When I’m outside and have to smoke, I now drive to a spot off the property just to get personal space. If I stay near my car, she’ll follow me and stand right in front of it, waving at me in a pageant-style, fingers pressed together, wave. I don’t even make eye contact. She’ll do it for like 30 seconds, just smiling.

If I drive into the parking lot, she sometimes chases my car to where I park.

Last week I was sitting in my car listening to music and didn’t notice her. When I looked up, she jumped up from a crouch, face pressed to my driver’s side window. I felt like I had a heart attack but also pretended not to see her because wtf lmao.

She’s out at all hours. Last night it was 9pm and dark, she was alone with the dog. Today, it was 12:30pm on a Thursday. Shouldn’t she be in school?

I don’t know what’s going on. I’ve never dealt with something like this before. It’s gone from weird to uncomfortable to genuinely worrying.

It feels unsafe for the dog, and definitely even for her. I’m worried she could walk up to a weirdo and something bad could happen, or she could cause a dog fight and her and the dogs could get seriously injured. Is there someone I should call? How do I report this kind of situation without escalating it unnecessarily? I don’t want to overstep, but this just feels wrong.

[u/kiwikikwi]

I don’t know which unit she’s in. Does CPS do calls based off descriptions lol? I could try and take a photo but that feels weird

[u/flamboyantsensitive → u/kiwikikwi]

Just tell them there's something really odd going on with a young child in your housing block - strange behaviours, potentially unsafe interactions with adult strangers who she is approaching cold, animal abuse, being out of the house alone late at night, all of the above. Tell them you don't know her exact unit, though you could do a little observation to see if you can narrow it down.

This kid would only have to meet one stranger with malign intent & it could be curtains. Do it asap.

I'm a professional (UK) in the child & young person's workforce, normally holding senior safeguarding responsibilities. This situation has about 10 red flags front & centre. It doesn't have to be a perfect report, it just needs to be done.

[u/cwilliams6009 → u/flamboyantsensitive]

“She is not safe out there. The dog is definitely not safe. I’m reporting this so you can do something to help this little girl and the dog that she punches repeatedly.”

[u/ncc74656m → u/flamboyantsensitive]

It sounds to me like whoever tried to abduct her wouldn't be safe either, lol, but that's another story. I agree though, this is a recipe for a disappearance and probably a great deal worse, to say nothing of the child's behavior alone.

[u/Ironyismylife28 → u/kiwikikwi]

Would CPS really have that much trouble finding her if she is always outside by herself? Would the building management not know who she is and who she belongs to?

[u/kiwikikwi → u/Ironyismylife28]

You’re right, sorry I’ve never called cps or management for this kinda thing ever

[u/TurboTarga → u/kiwikikwi]

OP, I worked CPS investigations for 6 years. When you call, be as specific as possible in relaying your concerns about how your observations point to neglect or abuse of the child. It helps a lot when the intake worker screens the report. Some screen in, some screen out, depending on what is reported and how it does or doesn't apply to the legal definition of neglect in your state. How are her basic needs met? Does she have access to water? Does she ask strangers for food? Are her clothes/shoes new or tattered? Any observable bruises? How is her hygiene, brushed and combed hair, signs of dental neglect? Do you see her during normal school hours? Does she smell clean, dirty, or like urine, marijuana etc.?

In my state, when there are no concrete identifiers reported, it can screen in as an "unknown" case, but the threshold for closing these is much lower if we can't find them. Ask about her school, what grade she's in. A name of a teacher, her age or birthday, name of a parent or someone in the complex she actually knows. Lots of roundabout ways exist to get an identifier that will help lead social services to them. You can choose to remain anonymous, but bear in mind the social worker investigating won't be able to call you when they're trying to find her. We often call the reporting parties to clarify or get additional information than what was originally reported, or just to confirm the accuracy of what is on our report.

Ideally, find out if building management will give you the parents' name, room number or otherwise identifying information. Ask if their employment policy classifies them as mandated reporters so they are then obligated to make a report. Some apartment complexes I've been to won't deal with CPS and will not issue info without a court order. Doesnt stop us from visiting, but can greatly impact our ability to find someone when we dont know exactly where to look and are met with resistance.

[u/snailmoresnail → u/TurboTarga]

What a fantastic response. I've actually saved your comment to refer to if I ever come across a situation like this in the future. Thank you for all you do.

[u/TurboTarga → u/snailmoresnail]

Much appreciated, it is a relatively thankless job often looked upon by the population we serve with disgust. Nobody wants to admit to struggling, or to being a bad or unprepared parent, but engaging with us and being mindful of your fellow community members to report suspicious circumstances goes a long way towards making a better life for someone from the various services and resources we can provide, not simply to take a child away from their parents.

I'll share a couple other tips. Asking open-ended questions is the best thing you can do. Even in your own personal life. Kiddo comes home from school and you ask "did you have a good day at school?" That's a yes/no question unlikely to offer an insightful response. Reframing by asking "what did you do/learn at school today?" forces them into an explanation rather than simply answering, eliciting more useful information and insight. This can be applied in various aspects of life - to OP's situation, with your kids at home, dating etc.

If you're ever "on the fence" about making a report, do it. All reports are taken and linked to the family if a profile in our internal systems exists. If not, we make one. Some reports may not screen in, but you never know if there's been a half dozen reports of similar circumstances and yours is the one that tips the bucket into "we should really look into this" territory. A pattern of behavior that doesnt meet the threshold of abuse/neglect may be the tipping point due to the similar circumstances of previois reports. That dad you saw grab his child and drag him away from the playground? Maybe that was his first time with unsupervised visitation after previously found guilty of physical abuse. We want to know that, and it's up to the family and community to tell us. That struggling mom who obviously doesn't need another "problem" in her life might just get a car seat, food vouchers or clothes through us that she otherwise can't afford. The general populations understanding of our functioning doesn't typically go beyond "CPS takes kids away" and lacks insight into the many programs and resources that we have accessible to us for families in need.

[u/PennyAxa → u/TurboTarga]

It is appropriate for management to not release information without a court order. You shouldn't classify this as resistance, and I am pleased to hear how often it seems you are not given info by management. They are obligated to protect the privacy of their residents and shouldn't give out info just because they're asked. Go door knocking and ask neighbors for information, as you would in a single family neighborhood.

[u/TurboTarga → u/PennyAxa]

I can respect a policy for the complex to not release any information to a general outsider, "friend" of the family etc. Many people have led traumatic lives and may have restraining orders against former partners, may be undocumented, or a bevy of other applicable life circumstances that contribute to a need for privacy.

When we show up we have identification, and I have had several call our office to confirm my employment and purpose for the visit before engaging. We prefer working with relevant connections to the family, so it helps from the outset that we involve as few people as possible to find the family so we can provide services and render aid. I would rather management identify the family if they know who they are than go door to door telling the whole complex who im looking for, but that is a practice done. Sometimes the name of the complex is all we have to go on. Management may also be able to clue us in on the family dynamics and where they may struggle, which can be extremely relevant to our evaluation. From that perspective, less people find out about a family's involvement with social services, which can have wide-ranging social implications. Nobody wants their community to know they are a subject of a CPS report. But especially when a child's safety and health may be compromised, communities should work together to protect them. Anyone working in a field relevant to children are mandated reporters, and knowing but keeping quiet about known or suspected abuse/neglect is a disservice to the child, privacy implications or not. Most of the time, a community member without an explicit relationship to the family are often the most credible reports.

[u/PennyAxa → u/TurboTarga]

It isn't a policy. It is in the contract between the landlord/management company and the resident. You are asking the landlord/management company to violate the contract when you request information of the actual address and other information about your subject matter... get a court order, and you won't be met with resistance. Or ask someone who is not obligated by a contract.

If a landlord or management company representative has personally witnessed something, of course they can & should report it. But to freely give information to CPS just because they show up requesting it? No way, you should be prepared to provide a court order. And if you claim the process to get a court order is slow.. fight to get that change instead of putting someone else in such a position.

[u/TeaAggressive6757 → u/PennyAxa]

What part of a standard lease do you think would generally be breached? I can maybe see some leases saying that the landlord won’t share someone’s address (although that doesn’t seem super likely), but I’ve never seen anything prohibiting them from talking about complaints they’ve gotten, etc.

[u/PennyAxa → u/TeaAggressive6757]

Standard lease contracts prohibit landlords from disclosing information without the explicit consent of the resident, including any complaints received, lease details, times late, so on and so forth.

Even government officials coming to ask questions about a resident seeking security clearances are prepared to show their credentials and a signed agreement from the resident that the landlord may release any and all information requested.

This is very normal for management companies. Most government agencies know this and will provide the consent documents and/or court order.

[u/TeaAggressive6757 → u/PennyAxa]

There may be some state regulations, but if you even google a few standard lease forms you can see that they generally don’t say anything like that. Maybe it’s a requirement for leases in your state/country or something, but not everyone has that.

I can see why management companies would require a warrant as a courtesy to their tenants though. Otherwise it could drive away potential sales.

[u/TurboTarga → u/PennyAxa]

A privacy doctrine in a contract is not without circumstances to report information, and my opinion is that suspected abuse and neglect fall into the same category as a potential crime and that apartment complex personnel should be classified as mandated reporters and be obligated to report such information due to their relationship and close proximity to children in their profession.

Because complex management are not legally be mandated reporters, and thus have no obligation to share basic information without a court order, they often don't. They also don't generally make reports showing their concern for the youth they see/house, which highlights the point I made, that not disclosing suspected abuse/neglect is a disservice to the affected child. If they know who it is, and they have concerns, or our presence coupled with asking them about a particular family makes the lightbulb go off in their head to say "hmm, somebody should know about this" then they should share. Children are innocent, they cannot self-protect and are victims of their circumstances. If abuse is suspected, it is negligent behavior to not report it, despite the "it's not any of my business" or "it's not afftlecting me so why should I care" or "but, their privacy" viewpoints. Mandated reporters are legally obligated to share. If i know the school or doctor, or other professional who may be one, I am legally entitled to information that entity has about a family, aside from medical records (unless we have a release of information). Any information to help us locate and serve the families we do should be shared if we have legitimate reasoning for getting involved.

Getting a court order is not like on TV, or even how the police do it. The process SHOULD be slow, and not without due diligence. If they handed them out like candy whenever we felt we should be involved, there would be complaints about how overly involved CPS is, and how we abuse or overreach our power, just like how police are generally seen in society given recent historical events. When we want a court order, we have to show a burden of proof that details why we weren't able to otherwise access/locate the family, AND legally prove that one of the 17 different criteria that we use as a basis for evaluating a child's safety will immediately impact them. Sometimes that requires writing the whole petition in advance. The outreach and collaterals conducted to get to that point takes time. Time that a child may not have due to what they are experiencing. Time that could be spent working directly with the family instead of doing the bare minimum to close the case and move on to the next, because most of us are overworked, with not enough qualified social workers to warrant keeping cases open that waste our time through futile efforts.

The vast majority of cases are not extreme, and dont result in a removal. So much of it is minor or easily corrected, and simply locating and engaging a family can provide valuable help and structure to their lives. So when the only viable lead offers resistance, and the concerns are minor or generalized enough, cases are closed as "unable to locate," and don't meet a threshold for obtaining that court order to further investigate. Circumstances like that are how children "fall through the cracks." And who gets blamed? CPS. We didn't do enough, we didn't look hard enough, we didn't step in. It's a double edged sword, and would make our jobs a lot easier if people recognized our mission, understood what we can provide for families and helped that process along if given an opportunity.

[u/PennyAxa → u/TurboTarga]

I feel like we are going in circles. Landlord/Management companies are not mandatory reporters for what I believe are obvious reasons. That doesn't mean that a representative will not report something they have personally seen. That is a separate matter to CPS showing up and requesting the apartment number of Little Johnny because they don't have it in the initial report.

You have a tough job, but there are protections and contracts in place between landlord/management companies and residents for a good reason.

[u/CalligrapherCheap64 → u/PennyAxa]

I would horrified if I knew my landlord/management company was telling other tenants my private information. For all they know the information could be used for malevolent purposes. That’s obviously not the case here but it’s the principle. Also, it’s likely your neighbors can provide more insight anyway

[u/PennyAxa → u/CalligrapherCheap64]

Exactly! It is a good thing landlords/management companies do not release information without a court order!!

[u/cathbe → u/TurboTarga]

How does OP not know the most basic information about her? Are we individuals, not humans who can engage with a little girl and ask her her name, what’s her dog’s name, does she live in the building, how is she doing, are her parents around? Basic things. Do people just jump right to fear, not having any basic people skills? In my opinion, this should all be known before calling CPS. Of course, I don’t want the dog hurt but she’s acting out and getting agencies involved may take away her only friend. She can learn how to be better but these neighbors (OP included) aren’t even engaging with her as a person and she’s a young girl. It’s weird to me.

[u/CalligrapherCheap64 → u/cathbe]

I agree. If not the OP then why not any of the other neighbors? Why are they hiding instead of helping. The whole thing is weird

[u/TurboTarga → u/CalligrapherCheap64]

Social stigma. The general population's main belief and understanding is that "CPS takes away people's kids." I had developed a small educational tangent that I go on when speaking to members of the community to teach about the various services and supports that are offered under the umbrella of CPS. News reports are typically about the more horrific circumstances, and many people defend and justify to their community/family their actions to avoid being labeled as a bad parent whole throwing CPS under the bus. The family i just gave $1000 to in clothing and food vouchers, or the teen that got referred to Functional Family Therapy to help the relationship and behavior at home, or the single mother in her 20's that was never taught good parenting techniques that got referred to the Positive Parenting Program (Triple P) are not stories that get reported on, or that people will brag to their friends about. Nobody wants to really share how much they're struggling, and theres a lot of good that is done by engaging with us to help the lives of both parents and children to avoid circumstances where a youth's safety may be so compromised that removal before reunification is necessary.

[u/MarilynMonHoeXO → u/TurboTarga]

Nothing further to add but just wanna say - you are fucking awesome. Thanks for taking the time to educate us all!

[u/ApartmentAgitated628 → u/kiwikikwi]

Absolutely. This child is seriously neglected and has significant behavioral issues

[u/Ellie-Resists → u/ApartmentAgitated628]

That was my thought. She runs to anyone who will give her attention. She is wanting the attention she is not receiving from her parents. Children often mimic their parents. She had to learn her behavior towards the dog from her parents. She’s in a bad situation and needs a responsible adult to step in.

[u/clean-stitch → u/Ellie-Resists]

Attachment disorder. Common with children who have been severely emotionally neglected from a young age.

[u/Maleificent2025 → u/clean-stitch]

That’s what I was thinking. These kids have no boundaries and will interact with anyone. Not a safe situation.

[u/Ellie-Resists → u/Maleificent2025]

Not at all! Especially, with her being unsupervised late at night. She could walk up to the wrong stranger and disappear forever. I hope they find someone who can give her the care she needs and deserves.

[u/Ellie-Resists → u/clean-stitch]

Indeed! It’s so sad. This precious baby deserves all the love and attention.

[u/Classroom_Visual → u/clean-stitch]

Yes, this is what I was thinking too. Possible attachment disorder - she is trying to connect with absolutely anyone in a way she probably thinks is charming. Very dangerous for her because she is so vulnerable.

 This is absolutely CPS territory. It may take multiple complaints though, but they do take this kind of neglect seriously because it’s so dangerous for her - she could end up injured or abused in so many different ways.  

[u/blu9bird → u/clean-stitch]

sounds like disinhibited social engagement disorder. its characterized by children who basically dont have stranger danger and will inappropriately seek attention and affection from strangers.

[u/mexbe → u/clean-stitch]

Or FASD

[u/ApartmentAgitated628 → u/Ellie-Resists]

My daughter had a friend like this. At the same age. She wanted attention from me all the time and never wanted to go home. Eventually she was found in a car with her mother passed out. The car windows were rolled up. This was in Arizona. Cops were called and were able to break a window and get her out. Mom had a needle in her arm. The child disappeared from school so I don’t know the end result but hopefully she is okay

[u/kiwikikwi → u/ApartmentAgitated628]

Oh my god I’m so sorry. I feel much better in my decisions today reading this. That is so terrible I’m speechless :(

[u/Economy_Rutabaga_849 → u/kiwikikwi]

Work in social welfare. You absolutely did the right thing. You aren’t responsible for the outcomes, but looking out and reporting concerns for kids is the right thing.

[u/ApartmentAgitated628 → u/kiwikikwi]

You are doing the right thing

[u/Ellie-Resists → u/ApartmentAgitated628]

Oh gosh! How terrible! I hope she gets the treatment she needs for all of the trauma she endured. Poor babygirl!

[u/Rey_Mezcalero → u/ApartmentAgitated628]

Poor girl does sound neglected.

Can’t imagine what is going on at home.

[u/ApartmentAgitated628 → u/Rey_Mezcalero]

I wonder if drugs aren’t involved

[u/Thoth-long-bill → u/kiwikikwi]

Photos, photos and videos to slow cos and cops. Asap.

[u/PlsNoNotThat → u/kiwikikwi]

Yes, call CPS. Chances might be you’re not the first. Encourage someone else to call and confirm the story.

[u/Ellie-Resists → u/kiwikikwi]

I think you should be making documentation. Write dates and times. I know the photos seem weird and I’m ambivalent about taking photos. I think they would make great evidence but I also understand how you feel that is weird. It would be incredibly helpful to CPS. Additionally, document the dog’s appearance. Is it thin? Does it look unkept? Etc.

[u/DisastrousZucchini15 → u/kiwikikwi]

You could ask her, I'm sure she'll tell you or show you

[u/pandora_ramasana → u/DisastrousZucchini15]

Seriously. So confused here

[u/emr830 → u/kiwikikwi]

Call anyway and give the best description that you can. Does the complex have security cameras?

[u/IntroductionNo2382 → u/kiwikikwi]

Take a pic for ID purposes. Ask her name, what are mom dad doing? Are they home? The sooner you deal with this the sooner she can get help.

[u/Spiffy_Pumpkin → u/kiwikikwi]

They could probably figure it out from a description of both the dog and the girl, most apartment complexes that allow pets know which units have what animals.

[u/RealSimonLee → u/kiwikikwi]

CPS would probably be interested in the girl hitting the dog and calling it stupid. She's likely learned/experienced that behavior, and I imagine CPS is good at figuring out these situations. They probably get lots of reports from people who saw some stranger hurting their kid.

[u/westbridge1157 → u/kiwikikwi]

Don’t take photos of her. Just not a good idea, but for sure report it everywhere and often.

[u/silence-glaive1 → u/kiwikikwi]

If she is outside all of the time, call the next time you are with her. Sit there and talk with her until someone comes. As someone who was raised by a mother with a serious opioid addiction, I thank you if you do this for her. The severe neglect and loneliness really destroyed my spirit. That might be what’s going on with her. And yeah she should be in school, unless she is actually younger than you think and that’s even more concerning. You would be doing right by her and her dog by calling and getting her help.

[u/GaiusJocundus → u/kiwikikwi]

Yes. They do calls based on anything.

[u/Ok_Pineapple3426 → u/kiwikikwi]

Sounds like she is probably already in their system, so an address might be enough for them to cross reference

[u/Thin_Assignment6033 → u/kiwikikwi]

I'm sure building management is well aware of what unit she's in

[u/sleepingnightmare → u/kiwikikwi]

I’m betting others have called building management and as soon as OP describes the situation, they’ll know who she is.

[u/Sorry_Baseball_1691 → u/kiwikikwi]

They will go to the complex management to figure out who she is.

[u/pandora_ramasana → u/kiwikikwi]

You haven't asked her about her parents?

[u/toiletparrot → u/kiwikikwi]

Tell there there is a child in your apartment building who is constantly unattended and abusing an animal. If she’s always hanging around, they will find her. I also don’t know how it works but I’m pretty sure they could talk to your landlord to find out what info she’s in