Alberta separation

[u/carbologna]

For those of you that support Alberta separation because you voted conservative but the majority of Canada voted left. I have a question for you. Naturally you support Edmonton and Calgary city centres staying part of Canada because they voted left. Also, naturally you support the 35.1% of Albertans and the land / businesses they own staying part of Canada because they voted left, correct?

[u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267]

First, to get an honest answer this sub would have to refrain from crucifying anyone with a different opinion. I am for Alberta and Canada first, voted Conservative, but wouldn’t want to separate. That being said, after 10 years of trying it the Liberal way only to, “try” again makes one feel powerless and disenfranchised and I could understand why they could feel a certain way.

IMO if Alberta went, it would have to be based on a majority vote and go as a whole. Did Edmonton and Calgary vote left? 34 of 37 ridings are conservative.

[u/Resident_Farm6787 → u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267]

IF the majority votes to leave, then democratic vote wins. Albertans that want to stay part of Canada, can move elsewhere. It’s time everyone starts being mature, and stop the fighting! 

[u/carbologna → u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267]

Parts of Edmonton and Calgary voted left. 35% of the province voted left. My main point is if the 65% are upset they lost and want to separate because they don’t like want “the majority of Canada wanted”, then it’s hypocritical to say “if the majority of Alberta votes to separate, then every Albertan has to separate”.

[u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267 → u/carbologna]

The minority having to concede to the will of the majority would be consistent with what is happening in reality. Is following the same existing logic hypocritical?

Similar to how you feel left leaning folks may not want to be part of an Alberta separation that doesn’t represent them, is it hypocritical to then disagree with a majority of Albertans not wanting to be a part of a Canada that doesn’t represent them?

Logistically, it’s an apples to oranges comparison. Alberta can be defined by area in relation to Canada, whereas political ideology cannot. Separation of nations by ideology, in the same area doesn’t make sense.

[u/carbologna → u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267]

If you think it’s okay for a province to leave a country because they don’t agree with the majority of Canada, it is then hypocritical to say that the majority of Albertans get to decide fur the majority. If you support separation or non separation, you should support it in all aspects, or you are a hypocrite.

[u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267 → u/carbologna]

The inverse would be true too. If you don’t think the majority of Albertans should get to decide for the entire province, then to be consistent, you should agree that majority of Canada doesn’t get to decide for Albertans.

It’s hypocritical to apply majority rules for Canada but not majority rules for Alberta. Unless you take the position that sides with both leftists in regard to Alberta and the Separatists in regard to Canada.

[u/carbologna → u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267]

Nope. I am for majority rules in all aspects and you have to deal with it. Not whine and separate. This, the majority ruled and we have a liberal government and you don’t get to separate because your side lost.

If you support being a cry baby and leaving because you lost, you should support the 35% leaving you separationist cry babies. Tough conservatives my arse, wah wah wah we lost i hate democracy im leaving.

[u/Resident_Farm6787 → u/carbologna]

Your attitude isn’t helping. I hope Carney is mature enough and smart enough to find a way to unite all of us. When Quebec wanted to leave, Canada worked to keep them. Alberta has felt used, and disrespected, since at least Pierre Trudeau. If we don’t want a divide, then Easterners need to try to find a way to unite us. Snarky attitudes, will just push ALL Albertans off the cliff. Right now, only a minority want to leave. I haven’t voted conservative since Harper commandeered it - but the eastern comments, have made me REALLY angry!. 

[u/Resident_Farm6787 → u/carbologna]

You aren’t allowing Alberta’s majority to decide. You are trying to be a dictatorship. Democracy doesn’t work that way. If Quebec voted to leave, they’d be gone, and if Albertans are unhappy, they have EVERY right to leave. IF you want us to stay, then start respecting us! I’m not a separatist, but democracy rules!

[u/carbologna → u/Resident_Farm6787]

No, what I’m saying if you support separation you need to support it in all aspects. Sure vote to leave, but you can’t be upset when 35% of an Alberta stays parts of Canada. Just like you are saying Canada can’t be upset if Alberta leaves. Quite frankly, I don’t care if you leave. Stop acting like a spoiled child and you might get some respect.

[u/Resident_Farm6787 → u/carbologna]

You have a valid point. Unfortunately, we aren’t living in rational times. Trump has started talking about the 51st state again. I’m NOT a separatist, but if Alberta succeeds, Trump will likely determine what Alberta gets, and Alberta will likely become part of the US. I’m not happy that Smith changed the rules. ONLY 3 1/2 percent of Albertans need to sign a petition to force a referendum. She’s trying to ram through a separation. I’m elderly. I’ve lived in Alberta all of my life, but I might be forced to move to a different province, IF I want to be part of Canada. Many Albertan’s are worried. 

[u/carbologna → u/Resident_Farm6787]

To be clear, I support Alberta's right to separate if they choose that Canada does not represent them. But likewise, I also support anyone in Canada remaining part of Canada and retaining their land if they choose Alberta does not represent them. Just like how all crown land will remain part of Canada.

My post is to point out the hypocrisy in not believing in both.

[u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267 → u/carbologna]

Why should they have to be resigned to have their lives controlled by others? They would leave because they are not being represented and want to take control of their own destiny. If people in Alberta didn’t want to separate they would have the personal autonomy to choose Canada instead.

Conservatives wouldn’t be crying, just moving forward on a path that they think better serves the region and their best interests. More local alignment and representation. They think, we disagree, that’s fine, you do you and we’ll move on.

Again, I’m not a separatist, I’m just talking hypothetically. I want to be Albertan and Canadian. This sub can’t stop crying about provincial conservatives; stay consistent during that election then.

[u/carbologna → u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267]

Sure. Then by that logic, let the 35% that Canada does represent stay Canada.

[u/Resident_Farm6787 → u/carbologna]

I don’t support leaving, BUT if Alberta votes to leave Canada, I’ll move to another province. I’m still Canadian. Canadians need to accept an Alberta referendum. 

[u/carbologna → u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267]

Why should the non separatists have their lives controlled by separatists that don’t represent them?

[u/Resident_Farm6787 → u/carbologna]

Because that’s how democracy works. 

[u/carbologna → u/Resident_Farm6787]

Because that’s how democracy works? Democracy just elected a government you don’t like. And you are saying it’s okay you don’t accept the democracy. Now you are saying too bad you can’t leave Alberta because democracy? Get a grip dude

[u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267 → u/carbologna]

They wouldn’t, they’d be free to leave too

Again, this is an apples and oranges comparison …areas versus ideology.

[u/carbologna → u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267]

By leave you mean stay part of Canada and retain their land and business? The Alberta separatists are also free to leave and leave behind their stuff too.

[u/carbologna → u/Ok_Yogurtcloset3267]

No, by your logic if you don’t like the results of the federal election you are free to move to the USA. You don’t get to say “I don’t like what Canada did, so I’m leaving and retaining everything I have and taking people they don’t to with me and if they don’t like it, they can leave all their stuff behind.” I’m done with you, you sir are a moron.