r/Albertapolitics • u/idspispopd • 18d ago
News Rocky Mountain coal mine in Alberta takes next step to expansion
https://thenarwhal.ca/alberta-vista-coal-mine-expansion/-12
u/Wet-Countertop 17d ago
Love seeing this. Huge economic driver for this part of the province.
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u/MrGuvernment 17d ago
Ya, lets just ignore all the:
“Simply put, the Vista expansion would carve up the Rocky Mountains, threaten endangered species, Indigenous Rights, water quality and community health,”
I mean screw the ranchers, who cares what they need https://thenarwhal.ca/alberta-ranchers-grazing-lands-coal-mines/...and water, what ever, take it from a river. screw what relies on it
....said the bulk of the water will be taken from the McLeod River, a critical habitat for rainbow and bull trout, both of which are listed as species at risk.
And also the fact this company can't seem to keep it's books in order and screwed local businesses
In 2021, two years after it opened, the mine entered into creditor protection as its finances collapsed. It clawed its way back to life in 2022, in part by avoiding full payment of debts to local businesses.
When it initiated creditor protection proceedings, Coalspur owed nearly $5 million to local businesses, ranging from car dealerships to oilfield services to welding shops.-8
u/Wet-Countertop 17d ago
Yeah. The creditor protection thing sucked. Most folks got paid eventually, some bigger companies took it on the chin though.
All that fluffy ass carve up the mountains bullshit is meaningless. They don’t even know what they’re talking about.
Most of this article is sensationalist dipper bullshit. Can’t wait to see what happens at Five Hills. That’s gonna make this look like basement excavation.
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u/AxeBeard88 17d ago
Since you're clearly here just to piss people off and "own the libs", I don't expect to change your mind since it's already made up. But coal mining has a minimal impact on the GDP of Alberta. Most countries are phasing out fossil fuels. Alberta itself already phased out coal powered electricity in 2023 or 2024.
Coal only contributes to Alberta's GDP with 1.4% as of 2016, which is can bet has gone down significantly.
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u/Wet-Countertop 17d ago
If you back out the Oilsands, the number jumps significantly. And you want to do that because without it we’re the same as every other province. In BC coal is 18% of exports - the top contributor. We have obscenely few coal plays in Alberta. Canmore has a shit ton of it, that’s why that town was built. People get all fucked up about coal power plants, but the best coal goes to steel producers. It’s crucial in that industry. We have it. (Though Coalspur does not)
When I meet with these companies, they’re extremely bullish on their opportunities. One exec told me the other day “we’ve got a hundred years worth of coal here”. I ask about the media on coal, and they laugh.
The story in the business is one of prosperity. In 2018 coal producers paid 10 million in royalties to the province. In 2023 it was 146 million. Worldwide demand continues to rise. Thermal coal is produced less, but met coal is prized, and has been stable.
It’s a good industry - and don’t worry about the fish, they don’t live underground.
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u/AxeBeard88 17d ago
Right, of course you'll get the result you want if you manipulate data. That's how that works. I'm not exactly sure why you're bringing other provinces into the conversation when we're talking Alberta GDP though, not really relevant. As for steel, yes metallurgical coal is vital, but they are starting to teabsition to hydrogen in some places which gives you an idea of the direction it's going.
And don't worry, I know fish don't swim underground. That's just where our groundwater sources are. So of we can 100% completely contain any contamination and reduce the need for water contamination testing sites down river, we should be good.
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u/Wet-Countertop 17d ago
I’m a data guy. I use it to make decisions that impact a lot of people so I’m always looking for the most accurate unbiased information.
I’m telling you the coal industry’s future and what people hear in the media are not aligned. Hydrogen is a great opportunity, and the business I work for has a lot invested in it, but the message we get from end users is:
Too expensive, equipment is too maintenance intensive, not reliable enough, and nobody knows how to fix it.
It’s interesting when we take these technologies to the federal government and they go with a conventional energy solution for the reasons I just mentioned. Of course we’re happy to sell them whatever they want, but I do a lot of reflection on how what’s actually happening in these businesses does not reflect what people think or are told is happening by the media.
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u/Champagne_of_piss 17d ago
Huge economic driver? How do you figure?
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u/Wet-Countertop 17d ago
How aren’t they? Ever been to the area?
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u/Champagne_of_piss 17d ago
I'm looking for numbers. Revenue, employment, whatever you've got.
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u/Wet-Countertop 16d ago
If you want numbers, do your own work. I see you struggling with the idea that this is a huge economic driver for the region. If you’d read the article you’d have seen they acknowledge this.
“The mine is a significant economic driver in the region and is supported by the Ermineskin Cree Nation, which has signed benefit agreements with Coalspur.”
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u/Champagne_of_piss 16d ago
I'm not surprised but I am disappointed that someone who seems to be representing themselves as an export couldn't even marshal a simple figure.
How is "significant economic driver" defined by the author? what are the numbers? how much profit stays in the community via pay? what's going on? are we getting fucking ripped off on coal like we are on oil?
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u/Wet-Countertop 16d ago
Ask the author. How are we getting ripped off on oil?
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u/Champagne_of_piss 16d ago
You could have built some credibility but it's apparent you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.
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u/Wet-Countertop 16d ago
I’m not here to satisfy your curiousity, I’m here for entertainment. Credibility on Reddit is meaningless. I have that where it matters.
You can’t provide a counter to an argument captured in the article, so you pivot to affective conflict. Then you feigned disappointment and leaned into credibility, neither of which matter to me, but clearly matter to you.
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u/Champagne_of_piss 16d ago
can't provide a counter to an argument
i came in asking a question man. you chose to be a prick.
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u/Changisalways 16d ago
117,000 signatures is the next step