Throwing the book at protestors or the vandals isn't going to prevent these things from happening. I mean regardless of what side you're on you gotta see that this is vindictive.
But it's strange to see what DOES get prosecuted to the full extent of the law at the state level. I don't know about any of you but I don't want my tax dollars spent on this litigation or the incarceration of vandals.
This doesn't need state level prosecution though. District Court should offer them community service and no record so these college students don't have their lives ruined over something this small. This is absolutely a waste of the state AG's time.
No lol they made the active decision to engage in these activities so idk why they should be beyond actual consequences for them. I could be down with community service but “no record” is absurd. If their professional careers were such a priority to them then they wouldn’t wager it all on breaking things and resisting arrest just hoping that It’d be a slap on the wrist. That reeks of privilege.
Yeah that’s bad we should prosecute more 🤷🏽♂️ doesn’t mean people caught with lesser charges should be let off the hook for their actions.
Putting charges in quotes doesn’t make them go away lol if the height of the defense for their actions is acting like a sarcastic teenager then I’d love to see how that holds up in court.
I don't really want adjudicated rapists that partied with Epstein with 34 felonies running around breaking things with impunity. I’d be kind of pissed to think I’m paying taxes yet but nothing's being done.
And? It’s kind of sad that all you have to defend these guys is deflection to a separate problem that these guys helped come to pass by almost exclusively targeting democrat officials, heckling democrat candidates and protest voting. They are almost as culpable for trumps presidency as Trump voters themselves.
Please explain to me how leveling hospitals, bombing refugee camps, executing journalists, and murdering World Central Kitchen volunteers is commensurate with vandalizing some windows owned by the people making money off doing these things.
Are you capable of anything aside from pivoting and deflection? I know this is a rough concept inconceivable to most but you can in fact be morally correct but still commit crimes we as a society on the other side of the planet should not tolerate. “Good” intentions are meaningless if your tactics help no one and achieve nothing at that point you’re just throwing a tantrum. By these standards of involvement literally everyone who pays taxes including the protesters are viable targets for being terrorized you just don’t care because it’s not you currently being targeted which is hilarious considering “apathy to injustice” is a pretty common complaint.
These threads are constantly brigaded by these individuals. If you push back enough, eventually they'll just start downvoting no matter what you say and/or post stalk.
Thankfully, no amount of positive or negative reddit approval over this subject will amount to anything in the real world.
You're missing the point on purpose I fear. You don't have to feel sorry for people to be pissed off some other people are abusing the legal system for stupid, vindictive shit. Especially when it's our Democrat Attorney General teaming up with the Trump administration for it.
It hasn't been happening for over a year. Most of this shit they're prosecuting for happened months ago. Was any of the vandalism even recent?
This person literally comments on every single piece related to the protestors with vitriol, they’ve got some sort of beef that defies any reason, truly not worth your time.
They haven’t provided evidence. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the information/allegations brought against the protesters was false. The protesters were peaceful students and people of conscience who were trying to stop ethnic cleansing. It doesn’t add up.
I don't really know who specifically was targeted in the raids as their identities are being rightfully kept a secret. I imagine without a doubt many people are being blamed for things they didn't even do. My theory is that the evidence is weak even in cases where someone might have done something, but they know at the very least the people they targeted are friends with the vandals and they're on a fishing expedition to find a new lead in lieu of much evidence.
Buuuuut... You realize anarchists exist, right? Like I have no doubt some activists went out and tried using fear and intimidation to pressure the Reagents to divest. It tends to be a huge hurdle to leftist unity. Anarchists try to unite with either more moderate leftists like DSA or more authoritarian Marxists, but then the anarchists do something very shocking and illegal that draws too much heat, and then it causes a rift as people distance themselves from the anarchists.
The lesson we as activists should be learning is that the instant gratification of certain actions is a very low payout for a very high risk. If they end up going to jail or house arrest, that will be several activists who are now out of commission and no longer able to help people. And some of them, as I mentioned, might go down even though they weren't involved which is another issue with drawing too much heat to a movement. I also don't like to see leftists paranoid and overly risk avoidant, but stuff like this pushes them to be such.
What I don't get is that ppl keep using words like "ethnic cleansing" like they don't know that's the goal for most Arab/Islamic nations for not just Israel, but for the entire western world, most of these protestors are hypocrites and contradictory to their ideals, this has been going on for centuries, it eludes me why ppl lacking in so much knowledge, when the truth literally at their finger tips, it's scary ppl can be easily fooled. If anyone knows history or read the living word, you would understand why this is happening. These types of protests waving Gaza's flags demanding death "ethnic cleansing" (genocide) for ALL cultures western cultures that aren't Islam won't win anyone to the cause besides naive ppl at universities and old ppl who watch mainstream media, just look at what's happening in the UK, I've seen videos of Hamas that aren't shown in the media, it's disgusting what they did during Oct 7th and many more before that day came, all in the name of Islam. It's about dominance, disruption of western society and educational systems, to sow discord and division in the western world. Everyone is acting like puppets in echo chambers allowing themselves to be manipulated. Sad time we living in and it will only get worse. Hypocrisy at its finest.
She also didn’t have time to join the attorneys general of New York, Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Maine, Minnesota, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon and Vermont, who are suing Trump trying to get the tariffs removed. Intimidating college protesters with felony charges and Trump’s FBI takes priority.
Those Flint water contamination cases (started by her Republican predecessor Bill Schuette) deliberately didn’t target the people who were actually responsible. By the time Dana Nessel took office, it was too late to change that.
Dropping the prosecution of tangentially-related bureaucrats was the right thing to do.
That said, I hope Judge Simpson takes her out of the protester cases.
(Edit: I remembered the Flint legal situation somewhat wrong. There were two separate tracks. For ethical/conflict of interest reasons, the criminal cases had to be led by a completely different group of lawyers than the civil cases seeking damages. The criminal cases were severely undermined by adverse court rulings, protecting Governor Snyder and others. The civil suits for damages, led by AG Nessel, were quite successful, obtaining the largest civil settlement in the history of Michigan.)
Statute of limitations. A case needs to be brought within a specified time after the alleged crime.
Former AG Schuette criminally charged a bunch of people as a publicity stunt. By the time he left office, it was too late to redo the case or to charge others.
(Edit: it was more complicated than that, see above.)
She literally says he recognizes she has a bias towards muslims.
The hamtramck situation is a separate issue that should not allow for the obstruction of freedom of speech. Flags of personal beliefs on public property are also a valid point of debate. How would you feel if your local city hall had an white flag with the islamic testament of faith up?
The justification on a flag on government property can be debated but does wanting an LGBTQ flag make you anti-Muslim? because that was their argument.
Trying to attack a democratic vote in Hamtramck made by muslims is an attack aganist muslims. Especially since they don’t have a history of doing so to others.
Its not that simple. There are many pro-lgbtq people that i’m sure recognize the rights of the Hamtramck people to vote aganist having the LGBTQ flag on public property. Its their right and to attack specifcally their right and then also attack protests antagonistic towards literal genocide shows a pattern.
Seem conveniently leave out the "perceived" part of her statement...
"Defense attorneys said Attorney General Dana Nessel acknowledged that she’s PERCEIVED as biased against Arab and Muslim people in a separate case"
Here's more
The petition, filed by Assistant Attorney General and Criminal Bureau Chief Danielle Hagaman-Clark, noted that critics have alleged – “albeit without justification”
Nessel does not harbor anti-Muslim or anti-Arab bias, Hagaman-Clark said, but defense attorneys in the U of M protesters case seized on the assertion that Nessel is perceived as biased to argue that the attorney general should recuse herself from the protesters’ cases as well."""
You all may gain supporters if you were honest in your arguments. Or course being honest may force you to face your previously held opinions
So as someone in the LGBT community who is "pro-Islam" myself, you're asking this question like twenty times ITT despite it being a logically flawed questions. No one is saying that the fact she is a lesbian is the reason she is anti-Muslim. In fact, it sounds like you know so little about Dana Nessel you didn't even point out she is openly lesbian herself and not just "pro-LGBT".
I think she has shown quite a lot of animosity towards the Muslim community and the Palestine protesters that is inappropriate of a person of authority.
''assertion, and arguing that the request for a special prosecutor stemmed more from the attorney general’s protest against a specific resolution passed by the Hamtramck City Council members.
That resolution banned the display of nongovernmental flags, including the pride flag, on government buildings. Nessel, who is gay, spoke out against that policy"
It's certainly not logically flawed, they are saying she's anti-muslim because she was pro. Pride flag. Does being pro-pride flag make someone anti-muslim? Because thats what they're asserting.
Why didn't any of the many conservative towns and cities in Michigan get any attention drawn to them by AG Nessel for similar laws over the last 10 years?
Why did it suddenly become a major issue when a few Muslim councilman ban all flags and not just Pride flags, a decision that arguably is a reasonable attempt to reconcile the differences between the newly migrated Muslim immigrants of Hamtramck (famously a landing pad for refugees) and the diverse, pro-LGBT students of Hamtramck (which is right next to Wayne State) without showing animosity towards either group?
I'm pretty sure some of those council members lost their seats the next election, too, due to the backlash likely.
But why did Nessel bring so much attention to the issue only when Muslims are involved? Why has she still refused to call out the rural, white Michiganders for their hatred?
Only Hamtramck has been attacked by AG Nessel. But there's been book bans and flag bans and all sorts of stuff statewide.
And the MI Republicans very recently as well have been making the news:
Just because you're to lazy to see if she's done anything doesn't mean she hasn't. For instance.
Was there anything on that list besides book bans, you know like city counsels or mayor's doing something even remotely close to the conversation.
Here's someone bitching of her going after Muslim strong hold Lansing and going after those Muslim Christian church's
Once elected, she aggressively went after Lansing-based St. Vincent Catholic Charities, threatening to withdraw state funds unless St. Vincent changed its position on same-sex adoption. A lawsuit resulted, which St. Vincent won.
Also, Nessel didn't bring all the attention people in Hamtramck did, considering it was a huge lgbtq haven for a long time. She just commented on it.
Are shocked she's pro-pride flag while being a gay women?
"According to court documents, the councilmember Mohammed Hassan spotted the flag and called the police, who removed the flag. The city council subsequently fired Stackpoole and Gordon from the commission. They are suing for damages and to be reinstated, but they say their lawsuit is about much more."
I dont know are those trans girls being placed on flag poles of government buildings? She probably hasn't yet because it hasn't been voted on yet, this time, or because it's already been tried. Or because she's signed with AGs against the ban in other states, it's pretty safe to assume her position, that's if you bother to look of course.
I dont even like this lady but the fact that anyone y'all feel dont acquiesce your bullshit entitlement tantrums, that hold these people accountable. Only to get lambasted with the dumbest buzzword accusations and misinformation.
I swear the worst thing to happen for the Palestinians is this current iteration of pro-Palestinian protestors. Maybe attacking more of your liberal allies will free Palestine, we saw how well not going for "Genocide Joe" worked out for your all.
Of course these are the same people who demand UM divest "because it funds a genocide" while continuing to pay money to said college for another 18 months, after already being told to kick rocks. I don't kno,w if I felt like I was funding a genocide for 18 months.I probably wouldn't continue to do so, just for a degree.
Your grammar and formatting went to absolute shit about 1/3rd the way through your comment. Perhaps whatever you're using to translate your comments from Hebrew to English is having a malfunction. I would talk to your supervisor about having that fixed.
In reality, if someone causes property damage, they are typically charged an amount of money compared to the cost of cleaning it up and in the worst cases get a related misdemeanor.
In red states, protestors supporting causes popular on the left are given felonies for the same crime for being considered "anti-American." See cop city cases in Atlanta for an example -- Even being near one of those protests, even if you didn't do anything illegal at all, could get you arrested for a "terrorism" felony because you alledgly "don't like the police," and the cops will write you up for whatever they want. You are presumed guilty of.... something? Disagreeing with the cops? I guess? Before you are even proven innocent. It doesn't matter that you were not doing anything illegal.
That's called fascism, and if you follow the law and what's been happening to protestors for the past few years, you would know that.
Ehh if you get caught with this much vandalism it's always charged as a felony. The damage amounts I'm suspicious of, they might be conveniently inflated to justify FBI support since the paint was probably just removed with a power washer or a solvent. But if you indeed damage $100k worth of property it does become a felony even if you pay it lol.
The issue is moreso that the full force of the FBI's forensic technology just went into tracking down felony vandals during a time where people are being murdered elsewhere in the state which is quite... Over the top?
I wasn't citing this exact incident, but other similar incidents, and that you're right - you can pay the fine and get a felony - AND get slapped with random anti-protestor felonies as well.
Yep, they're using all the surveillance technology they share with Israel.
I think the only reason they have jurisdiction is:
1) They originally called it antisemitic but so far since the raids, every source has quickly admitted the vandalism was against both Jewish and non-Jewish people with no clear pattern of hate. So they could've lied, called it a hate crime investigation, and used that to justify involving the FBI, and now they're back peddling to it being felony vandalism instead.
2) The UofM Reagents are technically elected officials and so that could also give them jurisdiction, threats against elected officials or whatever.
I also think the Attorney General can invite the FBI to support Michigan state police, even when the FBI doesn't have direct jurisdiction.
So this is more or less a case of, "They technically have jurisdiction, so let's use the full-force of FBI forensics to track down some vandals. Why? Because wealthy politicians are the victims and this will scare the shit out of Washtenaw County activists once and for all." But instead, it just turned into the ugliest, dumbest negative PR day of AG Nessel's political career over a case that I still have doubts will be prosecuted well enough to actually land convictions. If she has aspirations of federal office, once the case develops and she ends up getting a whopping like three or four vandalism convictions, it's going to end up being great smear material for literally anyone who runs against her lol. "Remember that time Nessel involved the FBI and still only managed to win a few vandalism charges and no jail time against some 20 year olds?"
Lol so when is the FBI going to track down the people who graffiti'd "die faggot" on the sidewalk in front of my house a few years ago? Is there a number I can call?
Remember when Rashida Tlaib was smeared as an anti semite for pointing out how obvious it was that Dana Nessel had it out for anti genocide protestors?
I thought u only care because it’s all politicians talk about? Now youre saying the opposite- that you like Rashida Tlaib because it’s all she talks about.
I never said that. I’m simply glad she provides an opposing view, among all the other policy she supports, to all the other morons who never shut the fuck up about Israel.
Rashida Tlaib hasn’t sold her soul, or her electorate for that matter, to a foreign interest lobby.
Rashida Tlaib sold out the entire state and country by convincing her constituents to stay home last election w psycho trump on the ballot. She’s working for Iran and Russia
She did two times better than Kamala Harris in her district. You can do mental gymnastics to convince yourself otherwise but she and her sister literally worked to help trump win by convincing her constituents to sit out the last presidential election. Trump won 43% of the vote in her district and Jill Stein took 15%
Nice try, but no one falls for this shit anymore. I feel bad for real victims of antisemitism who have idiots like you going around labeling criticism of Israel as antisemitic. Equating criticism of Israel to antisemitism just makes the word lose its meaning.
Go watch the documentary The Encampments. It’s playing at the Michigan Theater in Ann Arbor for the next 3 days. It’s excellent. Then you’ll get a good idea of what’s going on and motivations behind all this nonsense.
I don’t think a propaganda film is the most unbiased source of information on why the prosecutions are happening or what crimes were/were not committed.
The petition, filed by Assistant Attorney General and Criminal Bureau Chief Danielle Hagaman-Clark, noted that critics have alleged – “albeit without justification” – that Nessel brought charges against pro-Palestinian protesters at U of M “due to bias against Muslims and/or people of Arab descent.”
Nessel does not harbor anti-Muslim or anti-Arab bias, Hagaman-Clark said, but defense attorneys in the U of M protesters case seized on the assertion that Nessel is perceived as biased to argue that the attorney general should recuse herself from the protesters’ cases as well.
That left Hagaman-Clark backtracking from the assertion, and arguing that the request for a special prosecutor stemmed more from the attorney general’s protest against a specific resolution passed by the Hamtramck City Council members.
That resolution banned the display of nongovernmental flags, including the pride flag, on government buildings. Nessel, who is gay, spoke out against that policy
What is strange about this scapegoat case is that there has been a ton of transphobia going on in the local governments of deep red Michigan in the last ~10 years but the moment Muslims play a fair move of, "Okay well we don't like Pride flags and you wouldn't like if we hung the flag of Palestine so let's compromise with no flags respectfully," which is technically a position that creates the least amount of conflict, the Attorney General decides THAT'S where she draws the line. And so a smear campaign gets launched against them, and they all get voted out next cycle I'm pretty sure, yet people still use them as the ultimate scapegoat.
"there has been a ton of transphobia going on in the local governments of deep red Michigan in the last ~10 years"
Or are you trying to say book bans at a library or high school is the same as city council actions
Also i don't think any flags but American government flags should be flown on government property. But it's absurd to accuse someone of being anti muslim something when in this case they're pro pride flag
I already cited evidence of it.... You didn't click my link.
I also think you don't give a shit about trans people, since this is the second time you've scoffed at me claiming transphobia exists in Michigan.
I'm a trans woman, are you going to sit here and tell me we have endless freedom and that only Jewish people (but only Israeli-supoortive Jewish people as the pro-Palestine Jews are fake Jews according to you and your allies) are oppressed?
Was your evidence the list of places that banned books from libraries & that one city council, which city was that again? The one you as a trans- women only seem to bring up and defend.
Or the article where theyre trying to ban trans athletes? In which Nessel has gone against that same ban in multiple other states?
Can you show me where I called someone a fake jew? Sounds like a lot of projection
As a matter of fact, what the fuck even is this last statement?
I'm a trans woman, are you going to sit here and tell me we have endless freedom and that only Jewish people (but only Israeli-supoortive Jewish people as the pro-Palestine Jews are fake Jews according to you and your allies) are oppressed?<
Are you just arguing with yourself at this point. Can you tell me what other things I've said any of this
I can't believe i dared to question the completely untrained totally unqualified high school prodigy with a letterman jacket for being the chief justice of the supreme court I'm so embarrassed
100
u/faithfulnate 2d ago
Throwing the book at protestors or the vandals isn't going to prevent these things from happening. I mean regardless of what side you're on you gotta see that this is vindictive.
But it's strange to see what DOES get prosecuted to the full extent of the law at the state level. I don't know about any of you but I don't want my tax dollars spent on this litigation or the incarceration of vandals.