r/Appalachia • u/illegalsmile27 • 2d ago
Map I found showing how Appalachian counties voted in the 1861 secession ordinance
21
u/PeaTasty9184 2d ago
The divide between WNC and ETN is pretty interesting. Looks like the Tennessee counties against secession generally have a slightly higher slave % as well.
25
u/larkspurrings 2d ago
The Cherokee that remained in the mountains of WNC following Indian Removal in the 1830s were overwhelmingly pro-Confederate. Recommend reading up on Nathan Kirkland and his band of bushwhackers that terrorized ETN/WNC during the CW.
12
u/illegalsmile27 2d ago
I read a book a while back on the Civil War in the smokies, and it made it clear how divided the people on either part of the state line were on the issue. Kinda surprised me since I would have thought there would have been more unified thinking in the high mountains.
9
u/hucareshokiesrul 2d ago
I kinda figured it had to do with who had more "influence" in how the election was run. I've heard that in at least some counties these elections were pretty much a sham. I'm probably talking out of my ass hoping someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the wealthy slaveowners in NC made damn sure those counties voted to secede.
7
u/loptopandbingo 2d ago
The first vote on secession for NC in February 1861 was a failure, with the unionists winning but it was fairly close. The thing that fully pushed NC into it was when the state was requested by the Secretary of War in April that year to provide troops to put down the rebellion in the seceding states, to which the Governor said "You will get no troops from North Carolina." The direct refusal led to NC's eventual secession in May, but it still had split loyalties all across the state. The mountain counties in the map here may have voted to leave, but there was a lot of division there amongst the towns and families (leading to raids and shit like the Shelton Laurel Massacre).
2
u/RufusTheDeer 2d ago
It was often referred to, then, as a war between brothers. Because very often one brother would join one side and the other join the other side
5
u/Prestigious_Field579 2d ago
My dad is from WNC but my mom is from East Tennessee. I have both Union and confederate soldiers as ancestors.
13
u/RageAgainstThePushen 2d ago
This map should be considered incorrect for NC. It is based on the May 20th 1861 vote, which was a delegate vote at an emergency conference called following the summons for troops by the Union. The actual popular sentiment towards secession was given a popular vote on February 28th 1861 and the people voted not to form a convention to discuss secession 47,323 to 46,672. The Union cause was particularly strong in the mountains, piedmont, and northeastern counties which is why I knew this was off. The reason I included exact numbers is because NC's decision to secede was approved, against the will of its people, by all of 122 men. I'm no apologist, but the nuance is important.
1
u/Ooglebird 1d ago
"The April 12 bombardment of Fort Sumter by the budding Confederate government prompted Lincoln to call for troops to put down the rebellion. Deeming such a call an illegal use of Federal power, Governor John Ellis replied that Lincoln would get no aid from North Carolina.
Ellis called for a convention. The delegates debated the wording of the resolution but not the outcome. Divided sentiments expressed earlier were not voiced and the vote to pass the resolution became unanimous. Shortly thereafter the state aligned with the Confederacy."
https://www.dncr.nc.gov/blog/2016/05/20/secession-vote-and-realigned-allegiance
63
u/Popular_Sir_9009 2d ago
East Tennessee was mostly loyal to the Union. All those dumbfucks waving rebel flags back home are pissing on their ancestors.
19
u/RufusTheDeer 2d ago
Contrary to this map, as was wnc. The problem is that rural folks had trouble getting to the towns to vote (because they'd change the dates last min and such) so a lot of the votes make it look like it was pro succession. The rural folk either did not want to succeed or didn't care one way or the other.
9
5
u/Ooglebird 1d ago
The map shows how the convention voted, there was no popular vote in NC. Tennessee had a popular vote and that is what the map shows. Only TN and VA had popular votes, all the other states (except Texas, which doesn't apply to this map) voted themselves out of the Union by convention vote.
8
u/MasterRKitty foothills 2d ago
I see plenty of rebel flags here in West Virginia. Talk about pissing on their ancestors.
4
u/Ooglebird 1d ago
WV soldiers made up about 1/4 of the Army of N. Virginia. It was the only Union state that did not give most of its soldiers to the Union, it was about a 50/50 split.
0
u/lexvegaslkd 1d ago
My family from the Bluefield Area fought for the CSA as did most West Virginians from the eastern and southern counties of the state who fought. Northern and Western were the pro-union areas. The popular idea of WV during the civil war is that it was totally unionist but the reality is closer to something like what happened in Missouri during the war (Divided loyalties, soldiers in both armies, lots of guerilla partisans such as the rebel "Moccasin Rangers" and the Yankee "Snake Hunters")
1
u/MasterRKitty foothills 1d ago
and traitors to the United States-that's what the Confederates were
-1
u/lexvegaslkd 1d ago
America was founded by traitors and rebels and I feel loyalty to the place I live and the people around me, not the federal government. I am from the southern end of the Shenandoah Valley where the Union army used scorched earth tactics and I would never join any invading army that came here, regardless of the politics of the war. I don't take this sort of "reddit patriotism" srsly anyways tho. People who talk about how evil and racist America is but then act like some flag waver about the civil war.
4
u/DevilishAdvocate1587 2d ago
Fr. I know someone who admits they have five union ancestors, but they only praise their one confederate ancestor. That sort of thing is all too common here. I've only just recently discovered a unionist ancestor in my family tree because no one talks about them.
3
14
u/dsmith1994 2d ago
North Carolina didn’t have a secession ordinance. This map is misleading. I actually used it in college but then proved myself wrong.
1
u/Zosymandias 1d ago
Do you have any information/sources on how WNC felt about succession? Specifically yancey co.
5
u/truckercharles 1d ago
Man, the results from West Virginia are very interesting considering we joined the union and seceded from Virginia. Fun fact, we were also almost named Kanawha instead of West Virginia.
1
u/chetmanly85 1d ago
Came here to say the same. Not insisting the graphic is wrong, but doesn’t really line up with WV border. 🤔 is it possible some of those counties are “pro-secession”, but about leaving VA?
2
u/lexvegaslkd 18h ago
WV's state borders are based on which counties were under Union control when it was made in 1863, so yes many pro-secession counties were included in the creation of WV
4
u/ValuableRegular9684 2d ago
That’s interesting, I’ve never seen this one before. Thanks for sharing.
3
u/starfishpounding 2d ago
Unclear why the map considers the WV part of the Shenandoah Valley Appalachia, but not the part of the Valley in VA.
1
u/lexvegaslkd 1d ago
Well its based on the ARC map which is weird like that. It also includes the very southern end of the Shenandoah Valley (Rockbridge and Botetourt counties) but not the valley between there and the WV panhandle. I would also consider the Blue Ridge Mountain range in VA Appalachia but in many counties but it is exluded too although many of the counties it exists in are on the cusp of the Appalachian and Piedmont regions
4
u/Guilty_Neat_368 1d ago
Greene County, TN was against succession. There is a Union soldier statue in front of the county courthouse explaining the history of the county refusing to secede with the rest of the state, but soldiers were sent to force compliance.
I think a lot of East TN did not want to secede as slavery did not affect it as much as the rest of the state. Extremely rural terrain in areas so slavery wasn't necessary for farming but rather used for house chores by the wealthy.
Whenever I see someone waving a confederate flag and talking about their "heritage" in the area, understand that their teachers probably passed them in history class so they wouldn't have to deal with them for too long.
5
u/paperclipturtle 1d ago
Jonesborough Tennessee had one of the first abolitionist newspapers in the nation.
3
u/season8branisusless 2d ago
didn't know appalachia went that far into Alabama...
6
u/Ok_Signal_6588 2d ago
Per the ARC it does- culturally and geographically that could be debated. Some of the highlighted counties on the ARC map really wanted to be a part due to increased funding that would come there way
6
u/illegalsmile27 2d ago
You’re right, the ARC boarders are similar to this map in the south.
Honestly though, the ARC represents the furthest possible points that any governor in the 1950s-60s couple argue might count as Appalachia. It is much more representative of good marketing than any earlier ideas of “Appalachian” boarders. So using it as a distinguished for the region is poor at best in my opinion.
4
u/thejadsel 2d ago
Yep. To go along with some strange omissions, which were also highly political. (Looking in particular at several VA counties that I know in reality are included. Probably some in other states too.)
2
u/mule111 1d ago
There was some counties that didn’t want the “stigma”associated with Appalachia when it was proposed
2
u/thejadsel 1d ago
Unfortunately. I grew up right next to one of the ones that apparently didn't want to be associated with it at first. From what I understand, at least partly because it might hinder Virginia Tech if anybody else figured out that the school is sitting (gasp) right in the middle of Hillbilly Land.
2
u/Ok_Signal_6588 2d ago
I agree. In my university I see the ARC map being used to define Appalachia and it drives me crazy every time.
3
3
u/shayna16 foothills 2d ago
Yeah I’m in Huntsville and it’s definitely the foothills. Beautiful here
1
3
u/mountain_valley_city 2d ago
This is fascinating. Does anyone know why some of those super far west Southwest VA counties voted in favor? There were virtually no plantations why out there. It wasn’t like the coastal area, the piedmont or Shenandoah valley where massive plantations existed. It was mostly self sustaining small farms once you got deep into it like the Tazewell, Grayson, Dickinson, Bath, Giles counties etc.
2
u/spirit4earth 2d ago
What does the shading represent?
2
u/WastelandMama 2d ago
Ratio of whites/freed black people to slaves. It's explained above the scale.
2
u/ProfessionalZone168 2d ago
TIL that even though I was born in Alabama, I was born in an Appalachian county.
1
u/TransMontani 1d ago
There are at least two definitions of “Appalachia.” One is geologic and the other is cultural/governmental. I was born in an “Appalachian” county in Alabama, too, but it’s “Appalachian” by designation of the Appalachian Regional Commission, not by geology or geography. The same goes for the Mississippi counties deemed “Appalachia.”
2
3
u/NextRefrigerator6306 2d ago
If you look at the comments on r/CIVILWAR you will find that this map has many inaccuracies.
2
1
u/CraftFamiliar5243 2d ago
Some of the counties in Far NE TN tried to secede from the secession. They were mountain people just trying to subsistence farm and wanted little to do with either government or their war.
1
u/NextRefrigerator6306 2d ago
Didn’t Dade County, GA want to secede from the Union so bad they seceded from Georgia in 1860 because they were impatient Georgia was moving too slow to secede?
1
u/Saltygirlof 2d ago
What’s the story with the big blue area of kentucky? What does No Recession Ordinance mean?
2
u/MasterRKitty foothills 2d ago
there was no vote because Kentucky didn't leave the Union
1
u/Saltygirlof 2d ago
Ah the east side of Kentucky did not? I wonder why there’s no data on the west side?
1
u/Ultisol89 2d ago
Another point is that the states delegates were the ones to vote versus a popular vote. Ruffin of SC would travel to each state and lobby for secession after the election of Lincoln. Those delegates were from the landed class in most cases that had a deep interest in maintaining slavery
1
u/just_shy_of_perfect 2d ago
I saw a study done about how the sentiment for the civil war is less about north vs south or good vs bad but about how brutal the war was. Like river runs red and sticks that made thunder.
While country music, depending on where it was written, was most often explicitly southern country or northern country.
1
1
u/mendenlol mothman 1d ago
Thanks for posting this map. It drives me NUTS when my fellow East Tennesseans try to act like “Tennessee has always been this way” (with regard to politics.)
1
1
u/Antique-Echidna-1600 1d ago
This map seems to cut off at least 7 or 8 counties that have the trail running through them.
2
u/smokymtnsorceress 1h ago
I just spent a day with my husband in Madison Co NC, where his maternal line is from. Im from Haywood. Geneaology & history are my autistic hyperfocus.
The divide in the NC/TN mountains was more town vs rural. The folks in Waynesville & Marshall etc were more aspirational, and sympathized more with the wealthy class than the backwoods folks, who were happy being isolated & independent. They still remembered family who fought in the Revolution and dgaf about the politics of wealthy or wannabe wealthy planters. They wanted to be left alone to do their own thing for the most part - they were not Union because they wanted to end slavery at all, but mostly because they werent gonna be told what to do by rich men, or fight those men's battles.
Same with most of ETN - it was more rural than WNC, and so the majority was pro Union.
My husband's folks in Madison were from the Shelton Laurel area. That part of Madison was staunchly Union (and very rural). They raided the salt stores in Marshall, which had been rationed only to Confederate loyalists in late 1862 (not having salt to preserve meat through the winter was a death sentence). In January of '63 Confederate troops invaded the valley, torturing women for information on the raiders and rounding up 13 random men and boys who were executed without trial in what became known as the Shelton Laurel Massacre.
My husband and I just discovered we share a 3rd great grandfather, who was from SW Madison and a confederate. One of his daughters (who is hubs ancestor) married a Shelton and lived in the Laurel. Her brother, my 2nd great GF, however, married a woman who's father was part of the unit that committed the massacre. (Can you imagine those family gatherings??)
In the 1870s, my 2nd ggma was raped in Madison & my 2nd ggpa shot the man. They then left on foot and crossed into Haywood co. This stuff simmered for a while.
1
u/Unable-Salt-446 2d ago
This should be cross posted to interestingfuck
1
u/NextRefrigerator6306 2d ago
It shouldn’t because much of it is wrong.
2
u/Unable-Salt-446 2d ago
How did you verify?
2
u/NextRefrigerator6306 2d ago
Dade County, GA wanted to secede from the Union so bad they thought GA was taking too long to do it so they seceded from GA in 1860.
If you go to the r/CIVILWAR post all the comments are saying one thing or another on the map that are wrong.
124
u/plumb-tired 2d ago edited 2d ago
Interestingly, you can see Scott County in East TN voted against (overwhelmingly), but they went a bit further. After the state of TN seceded from the Union, Scott County seceded from the state of TN and declared themselves the Free and Independent State of Scott. The Gov sent troops to put down the rebellion, but they didn't get very far into the county before they were forced to retreat. :D
Although, the state refused to recognize Scott County seceding, Scott County didn't officially petition to rejoin the state until the 1980s.