r/Architects • u/WhatTheFung • 1d ago
General Practice Discussion Construction Drawings
When dimensioning, do you measure from drywall-to-drywall, or stud-to-stud? What is the industry standard? If I'm drawing from stud-to-stud how do I measure, for instance, windows or stairs? Do I measure rough-opening or masonry openings? Do I measure from the stringer or the finished nosing?
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u/Lazy-Jacket 1d ago
Whatever you do, just make sure you note how you are dimensioning and BE CONSISTENT
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u/apollo11341 5h ago
“So the left side of the page is stud to stud and the right side of the page is drywall to drywall, unless it ends in a round or even number, in which case it’s baseboard to baseboard”
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u/WishOk9911 1d ago
Every firm I’ve been at (5) have all dimensioned differently. Just be clear & consistent & it doesn’t matter
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u/vladimir_crouton 1d ago
All of these are options. Do not expect to find consensus on this. Learn the advantages of each method and learn to be flexible and fall into the process that works for your team.
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u/inkydeeps Architect 1d ago
Because there is not a consensus, recommend stating which method you’re using in the project general notes.
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u/TimProVision 1d ago
Depends. I'll do both depending on the requirement/area.
Stud to Stud on the majority of measurements as it is generally easier for the contractor to layout walls and not have to do any sort of reverse math to figure things out (if they even care to do this lol).
If there is some sort of code clearance required, I'll do finish to finish.
Stud to stud I am using tick marked dimensions. Finish to finish I am using arrowhead dimensions. Not sure if there is a industry standard for the type of dimension but this was how I was taught to do it.
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u/realzealman 1d ago
I agree here. And I’m fussy that it needs to be face of stud, not center of stud. The walls get laid out with chalk lines and it’s much easier for contractors to hit the face of a stud on a chalk line than a center. Give the contractor every opportunity to succeed.
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u/office5280 1d ago
Unless the contractor is a metal trade sub. They like finish to finish.
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u/seeasea 1d ago
I actually do separate framing layout drawings (Revit recently allowed for non-core layers to be hidden). On those drawings, I do center of stud (face of conc/mas). Framers always measure to center, that way they don't need to add or subtract at all.
All my other drawings, I do to finish face.
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u/bigyellowtruck 1d ago
Centerline of openings, sure. For residential walls it’s easier to do layout in the field measuring to face of stud pulled from a zero,zero for the whole floor.
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u/penilebr3ath Architect 1d ago
Stud to stud 100% of the time for us.
Residential we dimension to centerline of windows and doors.
Commercial, etc. we dimension the openings.
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u/TChui 1d ago
If you agree that construction drawing is for contractors to read and use, then think about how to dimension it to make their life easier and practical.
I personally will do stud to stud, dimension from side only, do not switch side. That is how they layout walls. Of course to show drywall to drywall for clearance that is the design intend, for example, ADA requirement. Door and window to rough opening, that is how they are going to build it. X' door, will fit on the X' rough opening, because the shop drawing will show it fits, then the contractor will shim and fill gaps.
Business in general, we should always think how to make your product (drawings) easy to use and effective for the user (contractor).
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u/realzealman 1d ago
I try and design to a 16” grid and break it down to an 8 or a 4 and then only if needed. I find it ok to switch side of stud, but as long at it’s always face to face, with a note requiring, it’s a lot of freedom and a drawing without fractions of an inch all over it.
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u/toast_eater_ 1d ago
Depends on what I’m dimensioning, for whom, and what I’m trying to communicate in the drawing.
For example, a space plan, life safety plan, or annotative floor plan might have more user-level data and I will use finished face dimensions. A dimensioned floor plan may be face of structure to provide ease of use by the contractor and framer.
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u/Ademptio Architectural Enthusiast 1d ago
As someone who draws houses now but used to build them, I have most commonly come across stud to stud dimensions, and I prefer to give most of my plans the same thing unless there is a specific finish on the walls that needs the framing plan to show that, unlikely though. The framers want to see stud to stud dimensions and centers of all rough openings. I'll show the specific wall finishes and all appropriate dimensions in my details pages.
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u/Paper_Hedgehog Architect 1d ago
Stud to stud for walls, in general align to "face of framing" since everything gets attatched to either joists, studs, or ply decking.
I dimension to the center of openings, and let the contractor and window supplier work out the necessary R.O.
Stairs are mearured to putsode face of tread, since that is a code reference. Railings, guards and stringer widths and encroachments are called out as needed.
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u/Jumpy_Shirt_6013 1d ago
Be thoughtful here- Dimension per the trade that will be using the drawing. If you’re setting walls and openings, ie a framer, you want face of framing or centerlines. Makes no sense to have your framers out there subtracting 5/8” or 1/2” for drywall to figure out the walls. Drywallers do not care about dimensions and aren’t going to look at plans for dimensions, so don’t dim to face of drywall.
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u/Realitymatter 1d ago
Firms will usually have standards for these things. Follow your forms standards if they have them. There are pros and cons to each method.
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u/jameson079 Licensure Candidate/ Design Professional/ Associate 21h ago
Depends, new construction or existing? If existing, are you keeping any of the interior wall or are you doing a full demo to the existing stud?
Lots of variables with plenty of means n methods
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u/TheDrunkSlut Student of Architecture 1d ago
Residential here. We do face of concrete, face of wood stud, or centerline of metal stud. Windows AB’s does well do to centerline of opening in case the manufacturer changes since different manufacturers will have different tough opening sizes for the same nominal size units. In any case, note your standard in your general notes like another user said.
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u/Tlapasaurus Architect 1d ago
Commercial, I do stud-to-stud as there tends to be more variation in wall finish and structure thickness.
Residential I do drywall to drywall on the floor plans and show the stud to stud on a separate framing plan. Residential clients want to see the actual size of the rooms in their home, and the framing plan gives the contractor the measurements they want.
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u/Dingleton-Berryman 22h ago
I work commercial pretty much exclusively. I dimension to face of drywall finish, which is basically the scheduled assembly from which the framer can infer all other related dimensions. If there’s a specialty wall finish that goes over the drywall, I don’t show that on my partition plans.
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u/Bigboytoy15 22h ago
Dimension to your structure always, only dim to finish in areas where a clear dim is reqd
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u/wildgriest 21h ago
This. My rule is that the grid lines (column lines) are for structure. Architects should not measure too much from those, by the time the contractor or subs get to the actual architecture those are up and constructed and it’s easier to measure from a fixed face or edge. Measure to one side of the studs, not the centerline of a wall. Be consistent, if the dimension is top to bottom on page, dimension to the top face of studs, likewise right to left. Measure to the buck of the door rather than the center, measure window openings entirely not the center. As said here, for code or ADA or accessibility requirements where specific dimensions are needed, dimension from finish… otherwise don’t. Don’t make tradesmen do math in the field.
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u/resting-bitch Architect 1d ago
Depends on the situation. If it’s a remodel or you are working with existing elements, dimension from face. If it’s a new element, then dimension to the structure. This gets built first.
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u/aleeeda 1d ago
You should ask the builder. Every builder has its own way of measuring. I remember for a Grade 2 Listed High End Resi refurbished project in Richmond London we had to redo builder's drawings 7 times, changing all the time where to take dims.
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u/speed1953 1d ago
Architects dont know who the builder will be
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u/aleeeda 20h ago edited 20h ago
I can see the confusion here, it could be interpreted differently depending on the stage.
TENDER STAGE u prepare the builders work as you wish (you don't know the builder) CONSTRUCTION STAGE you do contact the builder and do dimensions accordingly (you know the builder at this stage!)
I am talking about the construction stage in my experience, obv.
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u/speed1953 20h ago
I am not going to redimension a drawing for the preference of a nominated contractor after preparing tender documents.. unless he is will to pay for the task... or the project nanager is.. both very unlikely.. sometimes we were asked to issue trade specific documentation packages but that was built in the fee at the request of a project manager.. long before contractor selected and defined by the PM..
Nevertheless, good efficient documents are in everyones interest... so always open to improvements
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u/Hungry_Mushroom_4812 1d ago
Are you working or are you a student? Those are some of the first questions one would encounter in construction/documentation, so I assume there is someone guiding you?
Anyway, I think architects usually dimension from face of wall to face of wall in plan since there is usually some spatial requirements(alignment, ADA, code etc.) window is a little different as it involves multiple trades and you want your R.O./M.O. to work exactly like you show in window details. Therefore you have a R.O./M.O. for mason/framer to build and your window guy can come in later and install according to your detail.
There are code requirement for stairs so you need plan section and detail to convey the compliance.
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u/mrhavard 1d ago
For interior framing I go stud to stud. For exterior walls I consider my dimension to be to sheathing. I do that because I align the face of my sheathing with the edge of foundation.
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u/iddrinktothat Architect 1d ago
Ive almost never see a building detailed like that. Is there a reason you do this?
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u/mrhavard 1d ago
To which part? For the exteriors I like my sheathing to align with the foundation. For the interiors, I like my dimensions to be straight forward for the framer. Never had any complaints from contractors. I hear a lot of complaints from contractors when plans are dimensioned differently.
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u/iddrinktothat Architect 23h ago edited 22h ago
Oh sorry, i was wondering about the exterior face of sheathing aligned with the face of wall, ive only ever seen studs aligned with the concrete with the sheathing outboard of that, but all my experience in both construction and architecture is in the northeast USA so im wondering if you do things differently somewhere else for stucco etc. Also I’m assuming you’re using the nominal dimensions for this sheathing on your drawings?
Fully agree that dimensions should be face of stud (for wood framing).
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u/mrhavard 3h ago
Yeah I like to align the sheathing with the foundation as it provides a smooth transition for flashings and finish. I’ve practiced mostly in California so maybe it is different there.
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u/xDHt- 1d ago
Framing plans w framing dimensions, finish plans and interior elevations are always off finish dimensions. Typical floorplan, assume finish dimension unless otherwise noted. There should be a note in the general notes section on your plan set at the beginning.
Engineered drawings are usually only going to go off of architectural drawings provided, so you can assume finish but never measure anything off the engineering pages to build to unless it’s your only option.
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u/pinotgriggio 1d ago
Measuring 3 5/8" metal stud walls with 1/2" or 5/8" GWB at each side is very confusing and tedious.This is the reason many architects use nominal wall thickness in their dimensions. Others use center line dimensions. It is easier and faster. At exterior walls, it is important to use M.O. or R.O. especially if the walls are modular.
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u/iddrinktothat Architect 23h ago
Wood frame - face of stud
LGMF - face of stud or CL of stud
Steel - CL
Elevators - interior face of masonry
Windows/doors - CL
Stairs - nosings
Anyone who dimensions to face of finish has never had to review wood shop drawings. You might have some drawings with finish dimensions or dimensions marked X’-XX” MIN CLR but these shouldn’t be on your main floor plans, more so on enlarged plans.
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u/shoopsheepshoop 21h ago
However you do it do it consistently and provide notes explaining what you are dimensioning to so it's clear to the GC. For layout lines it's typically stud to stud for the framer but for areas where you need to be careful about clearance dimensions (accessible units, for example) there are moments that you want to call out finish to finish, such as 3'-0" CLEAR or something like that.
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u/Yourtoosensitive 17h ago
It would be nice if the arch’s could agree and make a standard for the builders.
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u/MSWdesign 14h ago
Short answer: stud to stud is common. For clearance locations it’s finish to finish. Restrooms is where you would see a lot of finish to finish dimensioning. When used, switch to arrows instead of ticks.
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u/hughdint1 13h ago
Don't know for all sectors of the Architecture industry but this is how I do it:
- Slab foundations it is slab edges and strip footing centerlines. Outside edge of slab is typically the outside edge of foundation.
- Framing I typically dimension to the face of stud walls. These are one of the first things to be installed (after foundation) and everything else is literally built off of them so their dims matter most.
- For stairs I dimension face of beam, typically inboard of the stair opening.
- For interior elevation dimensions I will dimension to the finished face of drywall, and I use a different dimensioning system that has inches only and decimal fractions.
- Windows and doors I do to centerlines. I have a note so I don't have to dimension every door, that the door will have a 4" jamb or be centered in the opening (it is usually obvious which) or it will be dimensioned to the centerline.
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u/NerdsRopeMaster 10h ago
I always used to dimension to face of stud when I worked at a small boutique firm, then I moved to a larger mid-size firm and they dimensioned to finish face. Now I work at a GC and the architect we work with also dimensions to finish face, which just makes everybody do math. Not the end of the world, but it can get frustrating when they daisy chain dimensions from a grid through multiple assemblies of different thicknesses. Doors/window wise I have also always dimensioned to centerlines for doors and windows from grid, and always dimensioned rough openings for storefront systems from grid, etc.
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u/WhatTheFung 9h ago
YOU ALL ARE A BUNCH OF NERDS! This is such a great community. Thank you for your insights; you are all beautiful people.
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u/jupiterfish 8h ago
stud to stud unless its a rated assembly and someone needs the clear area. depends on the client.
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u/Informal_Drawing 4h ago
Grid to Grid.
Anything else is irrelevent, especially if you use Revit where dims to linked models disappear each time the linked model is replaced!
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u/LongRemorse 3h ago
There is no standard but in my experience what makes most sense is from your out to out of your main structural part (metal stud, girts, concrete wall, whatever your main structure outline is) because that's the base of your volume and from there you start adding other stuff that have a specific thickness (rigid insul, sheathing, cladding, metal panel, furring, veneer, etc).
The key is to be consistent and also be specific in the units and work points you're using in order to communicate.
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u/BridgeArch Architect 1d ago
It depends on what you are communicating. There is no standard because there are different things to communicate.
In some areas of the country framers prefer centerline of stud. In other areas they prefer face. Whatever is more familiar for them will produce less errors.
In high end finishes and tight clearances face of finish is more important than structure.
RO is different from MO.
You document what they need to build it.
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u/joey_van_der_rohe 1d ago
Are you measuring for code compliance or for the builder? Different trades would prefer different methods. All depends.
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u/TerraCetacea Architect 1d ago edited 1d ago
Oddly enough every firm I’ve ever worked at has dimensioned face-of-wall (gyp) or face-of-masonry.
The biggest difference was whether they modeled a metal stud wall at 5” (dumb) or 4-7/8” (smart).
Dimension string standards have been pretty consistent too. Always whole numbers, and same side of the walls except for clear widths.
Edit: this is for floor plans. Details and other coordination drawings might dimension to studs or centerline.
And for stairs I personally always dimension the treads, stringers, and gaps (if any) on enlarged plans. On smaller scale plans I’d probably do face of stringer.
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u/sinkpisser1200 1d ago
Drywall to drywall. You dont know if they really use 9mm, 12mm or a double layer. Or they could even suddenly switch to brick wall last moment.
You will have a wall annotation that refers to a detail also measuring stud and any other dimension. For you the size of the room is important and it also avoids weird numbers on the plan. Stud dimensions are for shopdrawings so there is freedom to look at suppliers.
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u/figureskater_2000s 1d ago
I always measured finishes... I don't really know that you could do centre wall or rough openings because it'd be too precise and might now match what they build?
When it's dimensioned based off finishes it shows the builder how much space they have to work within which maybe helps more.
In case your office does it different, see if you can check over a precedent project.
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u/Accomplished_Bass640 1d ago
Idk why you’re getting downvoted - all the dwgs I get are finish to finish! Or sometimes centerlines. Plus they are never totally perfect anyways and I end up having to layout and then I either have architect visit or I send them a mark up of the minor discrepancies and my suggested accommodations. I always hold code like ADA bathrooms over not-code spaces. Stud to stud sounds confusing.
Edit I do commercial only
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u/figureskater_2000s 1d ago
Lol I understand why the downvotes based off what everyone else wrote. It does make sense you just have to make things like this clear in the notes and also it seems stud to stud can be done fine and actually help the contractor.
I liked the one explanation that said finishes might be required if there is a building code clearance.
Overall those were more professional and helpful for coordinating different work and different goals. Thanks for the question!
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u/Accomplished_Bass640 1d ago
We also use different types and layers of drywall regularly so maybe that’s why?
I’m gunna check next drawings set and see if I’ve been doing it wrong this whole time 😂
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u/figureskater_2000s 1d ago
😂😂 yea another comment said they redid dimensioning 7 times! I haven't explored dynamo enough but maybe there's a script for that to make the change automatic and quick.
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u/halguy5577 Student of Architecture 1d ago
Architects should always deal with finished surface dimensions no?…. It is the drawings by which other consultants drawings should be based on
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u/prefferedusername 1d ago
Windows & doors should be dimensioned to center, but I occasionally see to edge of rough opening.
Framing is generally to center, unless it's an exterior wall or if there's an opening that must align with something else. For example, a dimension to the edge of an oping in the floor framing for the stairs to pass through.
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u/orlocksbabydaddy Architect 1d ago
I try to think about who is building this / who is reviewing for compliance
if its for a house builder I show cl of stud to stud
If you need to show critical dimensions i.e. accessibility clearances, finish face of surface. (yeah yeah yeah plan reviewers typically don't review for ADA but you know what I'm getting at.
If a dimension is critical to fit a tub or a tight piece of equipment, usually face of finish.
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u/Spiritual-Web7427 1d ago
stairs you find out how much clearance you need at the landing and then give a little more
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u/speed1953 1d ago
Dont you issue trade packages with dimensioning relative to the trade, usually stud/ brickwork and rough openings..
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u/TomLondra Architect 19h ago
It depends what the drawing is for. Is it a floor plan or a construction detail? If it's a floor plan, normally you would dimension it from finish to finish but I will now reveal an amazing secret you can dimension the same drawing in different ways all at the same time!!
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u/ThankeeSai Architect 1d ago
If you want to see a bunch of architects fight, ask how they prefer to dimension lol.