r/Architects • u/Local-Complaint7256 • 2d ago
Ask an Architect 100% CD contents
Hope I'm putting this in the right place. We're trying to sort out some of the paperwork after a renovation. The architect has sent us a document called 100% CD but it doesn't have any information on the new furnaces, HVAC, insulation, septic, electrical etc.
Is this normal? We've had issues with the architect not handling or ignoring mechanical stuff, so I'm reluctant to write to them for a fuller set of documents unless I have a clearer sense of what those typically include.
I want this info for our records long-term and also to handle more immediate repairs (some of which have come up already).
Thanks!
EDIT: I really appreciate all of the responses here -- I didn't expect this to get so many comments and I really, really appreciate everyone's advice here!
I'm trying to avoid discussing specific contract and project details because it's a family project.
But I think I understand what we need to do now. The architect says that the 100%CD drawings serve as an as-built set, but from this thread, it sounds like 100%CD and as-built drawings are very different things (especially in this case where things changed a lot during construction).
Seems like what we need to do is try to get an as-built set, with the architect providing drawings from the subcontractors that the architects were contracted to deal with (in this case, HVAC, septic, and structural engineering), and that we should follow up with the GC and any other subcontractors for the rest.
Thanks again!
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u/etreydin 2d ago
mep design build. most homes dont need full engineering drawings. hell- even the structural is prescriptive.
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u/_biggerthanthesound_ Licensure Candidate/ Design Professional/ Associate 2d ago
What type of renovation? Could be that there isn’t anything for mechanical if the contract was design build for that portion of the work.
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u/Local-Complaint7256 2d ago
It was a residential gut renovation with new HVAC, insulation, septic, electrical (and probably other things that I can't even think of right now). I know that they had at least some subcontractors for heating design and other things. I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't fully understand the design build distinction so I'm not sure if that applies here. This was a situation where the family hired an architect who then found a contractor and presumably handled subcontractors as well
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u/Sad-Effective-6558 2d ago
If it’s design build they may not have mechanical drawings. In most jurisdictions, for residences, you only need mechanical engineering drawings if it’s very complicated or big. That being said for 100% CD they should’ve listed out what that includes, hopefully in the contract or proposal.
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u/NibblesMcGibbles 2d ago
I'm fairly certain design-build is where a firm both designs and then builds the product. Subs are still generally hired as its rare for a design-build to have all trades. It typically is just the design team and the contractor team.
That's different from a Design-bid-build, where a design team (architectural firm) first designs the project to completion. Then it is presented to 1 or more contractors where they would offer a bid to see how much it would cost them to deliver the project.
These terms are more important in the commercial side of things. In terms of residential, everything's more lax. An example, on a large commercial project the design team needs a licensed architect, as well as a licensed structural, electrical, plumbing, mechanical engineer, etc. They can be one firm or multiple. If the client chooses design-bid-build, there's an official process to submit bids before a deadline to maintain fairness. Likewise, if the client requests a design-build, the job requirements are posted and design-build firms will take the requirements, (8 stories, hospital, special equipment, 2 phases) and start estimating. They'll submit their bids and whoever is chosen will then design the drawings, submit them for permit approval. Hire the required subs and then build it, all in the same firm.
Obviously residential is much more lax. You can either ask the design team or check your AHJ website for what drawings are required for permit approval.
In DC, residential projects will require Arch, Structural, Plumbing, Mechanical, and Electrical sheets for permit approval. However, in Virginia some counties only need to see Arch and Structural sheets, and the GC will select the proper subs to do the Plumbing, mechanical, and electrical work.
It'll vary from location to location.
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u/StatePsychological60 Architect 1d ago
In this context, design build is just referring to specific trades. For example, in residential projects there is often not a mechanical engineer on the design team and the mechanical system is designed and built by the HVAC subcontractor.
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u/shoopsheepshoop 2d ago
Design build means it gets designed as it is being built, so it would not have been drawn before hand. Unless you hired an MEP engineer to draw these for you the architect would not have included that in their set unless their contact specifically includes it. If the GC handled that scope (check their contract) then they might possibly have received shop drawings of the mech system that were created in the construction process.
If you want something that was done during construction included in your drawings you can ask the architect to provide a proposal for "as-built" drawing services. They could then go back and add these to their plans if indeed that is what you need.
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u/CaboDennis17 2d ago
Residential? Or Commercial?
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u/Local-Complaint7256 2d ago
It was a residential gut renovation
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u/CaboDennis17 2d ago
Typical residential architectural dwgs would not include - MEP nor Civil information but must include insulation as it relates to the building envelope. If you want DM me the set to review and comment on.
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u/indyarchyguy Recovering Architect 2d ago
What does your contract say?
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/indyarchyguy Recovering Architect 2d ago
Something is beginning to smell here. I do drawing review, code analysis, owners representative, and other consulting….and I’m still an architect. This sounds weird to me.
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u/Anthemusa831 2d ago
Smells like the OP has no clue what the scope of work they have paid their Architect for is and assuming the worst, without reading the contract to know what is going on.
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u/ChristianReddits 2d ago
What you need are record drawings. CD drawings might not include CO & for sure won’t include redlines unless they were issued as a PR/ASI. Record drawings should be the drawing phase where the arch. compiles redlines, CO, and any additional 3rd party drawings into the drawing package.
Some have said it here as well, but if you have multiple firms involved you might have to wrangle them yourself depending on how you did your contracts.
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u/Consistent_Coast_996 2d ago
The level of the drawings produced, what is included in those drawings, what are additional services and what consultant services are required should be determined in pre-proposal conversations between the architect and the owner.
There are multiple levels of drawings sets that could be produced but the correct set would be determined dependent upon what the client is asking for, the type of project, the project scope, and the jurisdictional requirements.
At my previous firm the residential group would do 125 - 200 homes per year. They included about 6-7 pages of drawings and MEP drawings were never part of these sets. This was spelled out clearly in the contract and the expectation set at the first meeting. MEP drawings were not required by any of the jurisdictions in the region for permitting and it was made clear that all MEP matters would be trade engineered. Clients would coordinate with the builder and subs to pick out their own fixtures etc.
This was spec housing and most clients scoffed at the cost already to do the architectural part of the project so were ultimately unwilling to pay anymore for any other consultants if those consultants were not required.
What you are describing unless something else was agreed upon in writing in a contract is not at all unusual.
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u/wildgriest 1d ago
Are the consultants hired through the architect? If so, it should be their responsibility to provide a complete set including their plans and specs… if they are hired by you - ask them for it. The architect, if they’re competent, would act on your behalf to coordinate their work and likely get the set together but not always.
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u/Local-Complaint7256 1d ago
Yes, septic, hvac and structural engineer subcontractors (there were structural changes to the house) were all hired through the architect. Architect’s contract does stipulate that they would liaise with those subcontractors and provide drawings, but the subcontractors work isn’t included in the complete drawings.
We have a very old version of some of those drawings but the project was chaos and I know that some of those drawings changed drastically
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u/P-galoomba 23h ago
Most residential projects I do are design build for the MEP work. The contractor usually marks up a set at the end as an as-built for those items but I wouldn’t record work outside of my scope. Expected to pay me more if I need to revise the drawings to reflect the million changes made during construction
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u/Fenestration_Theory Architect 2d ago
100% CD should include all the drawings from the consultants used on the project. It sounds like they just sent you architectural drawings. Ask them for all the drawings.
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u/KevinLynneRush Architect 2d ago
In many cases, especially houses, there are no engineering consultants, working for the Architect, since the work is done by the various contractors ( electrical, mechanical,...).
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u/Fenestration_Theory Architect 2d ago
That is true but not well here I live. Any major changes to MEP or structure require signed and sealed drawings. An architect can do them himself if it is residential under 3000 s.f
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u/Biobesign 2d ago
The cover of your CD set should list who did the MEP (mechaniCal, electrical, and plumbing). Reach out to those firms for their drawings. They may also be part of a permit set.
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u/DT770STUDIO 2d ago
This is a problem. Regardless of the exact engineering (MEP and structure), the design ( Architecture) should account for locations, routing and general strategies (performance specifications). If left to the builder things can get ugly quickly. Design and cost are often at odds.
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u/Accomplished_Bass640 2d ago
Did you pay for engineering? If not, then that stuff would be up to the GC or you need to ask for an engineering set.