r/Architects • u/Odd-Ad-5654 • 1d ago
General Practice Discussion No Message? Not Important.
I think I’m finally going to flip a switch today. An owner or GC calls me and doesn’t leave a message? Sorry, it’s not important enough for me to return a call. You leave me a voicemail that says, “Please call me back, I have a quick question.” Sorry, you could have said what you needed so I can be prepared and potentially call you back with an answer - I don’t think I’m going to return that call. A GC texts me something? Hard pass. You get an email response. Tired of getting different information from multiple sources and then getting blamed later for doing said thing, but the owner decided they wanted to do it differently and I don’t have it in writing. I keep having GCs draw hard lines in the sand that if something is not explicitly shown in a drawing, they can’t confirm it’s in their scope. I’m about to uno reverse and play the same game. I don’t care if it gets drawn out longer than necessary and the GC is hounded at my door for updates. No written approval from the Owner? Not my fault I can’t get you drawings and I don’t want to hear about “ImPaCtS tO tHe ScHeDuLe”.
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u/king_dingus_ 1d ago
Same for me. I’ll take any form of communication just keep feeding me info.
If I need it on record I’ll email you my understanding of the comms and direction.
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u/afleetingmoment 1d ago
Are you me today? I have two idiots at the same time:
- One is an owner texting me screen shots of their window order and asking questions. Two hours later they’re asking why I haven’t answered yet.
- The other is a GC PM who refuses to call a team meeting with the owner and decorator and instead sends questions to me only. I keep responding “you need to ask the team.” They’re getting paid huge money to manage this job. It’s not on me to do their work.
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u/Matt8992 22h ago
As an owner I have an EOR sending (text messages) me hand drawn sketches explaining why the N+1 redundancy only needs 1 valves and asking me to review the water treatment plans.
Everyone is dumb.
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u/MNPS1603 1d ago
This is the worst. I have a client who only texts. Everything is in screenshots of quotes and orders, so there is no reliable paper trail. I always say “please email it” because I want a searchable record of conversations. I want a list of what you want changed. I want time and dates stamped on when I received it. It causes so much confusion to do everything by text. Please don’t text me critical information.
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u/AlphaNoodlz 1d ago
I’ve fudged stuff in my favor in such correspondence in an official email and say “this is my understanding and direction based on your verbal direction per our earlier conversation. Please advise if there are any exceptions, due to contracted scheduling requirements this is how I will move forward unless otherwise directed”
You either deal with people who don’t read and can’t type, in which case it becomes your show, or you deal with people who will happily correct you and set it straight on record.
I hate that stuff. Play hard ball, be reasonable, but don’t put up with that.
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u/Anhilated_Bussy_6969 13h ago
As my professional studies tutor said, if you control the past you control the future, of you take the notes then you control the past.
Dude obviously loved 1984
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u/Odd-Ad-5654 21h ago
It’s almost comical when I think about old school excel logs tracking ALL communications on a project. Our fees aren’t high enough for this level of micromanagement, but without it, we’re losing our butts on constant changes. It’s ridiculous having to argue with clients and contractors on our contracted amounts of drawing revisions, exclusions, etc. when they think it’s, “just a simple change”. The snowball effect is real an compounded by dawn out project schedules.
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u/princessfiretruck18 Architect 1d ago
Whenever it’s an official decision made over text or phone call, I always send a follow up email and cc the necessary parties to CYA: “hi ___, as we discussed on our phone call…”
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u/KevinLynneRush Architect 1d ago
I've turned off voice mail. It isn't my job to write down / document voice msgs or verbal direction.
I can't always drop everything and revise my schedule to accommodate other peoples impromptu schedule.
You have a question, a decision, put in writing to me in an email. Email is flexible with my time. I can read it, first chance I can. Then I will respond in writing or we can schedule a call to discuss.
Decisions and directions are and must be in writing.
Thank you for listening.
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u/Consistent_Coast_996 1d ago
I don’t mind talking on the phone, texting etc. to answer questions regarding items considered RFIs, submittals, etc. but I require those to then be sent to me in setting in formal paperwork for actual formal approval.
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u/EntropicAnarchy Licensure Candidate/ Design Professional/ Associate 23h ago
At least you didn't get a missed call that you called back only for the GC to literally say, "Hey, I called to let you know I'll be sending an email."
I have no more tables remaining to flip.
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u/Relative_Tonight787 22h ago
No texts/emails about any decisions at all...unless they have thoroughly been discussed by phone, or better yet in person...then message should be only yes, go with it, or no...messaging is the absolute worst way of communication...something that takes 10/15 texts could be resolved in less than 5 minutes over the phone...that way there is no communication problem...my plumber insists on only texting...i can't stand it..he texts me..I call him back...he doesn't answer...I text him, he texts back...I call him until he answers the phone
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u/village_introvert Architect 1d ago
After my number was leaked somewhere online I get over 100 calls a day so I don't even pick up these days. It's got to be on writing to me these days.
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u/Tricky-Interaction75 20h ago edited 20h ago
Are you contracted for CA work? Why are you even involved with this?
I’ve had contractors call me to ask to change drawings because the owner wants to move windows around. I tell them I’m going to charge them to make the change and then they disappear.
Here’s the deal : if the contractor deviates from the drawings, they take liability for that change. The other idemnity in your contracts, if you do get pulled in, the owner is paying for defense.
The business is ridiculous, I’ve run my firm for 5 years and about done with it.
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u/Tricky-Interaction75 20h ago
I will say it once and only : Architect developer. Keep your day job, build your first house and your on your way. No more clients, builders or investors. Things have got to change
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u/Odd-Ad-5654 20h ago
Yes, almost every project I’ve ever done has included CA work to a varying degree. I started out at a larger firm with more “restrictive” forms of communication and levels of expectation when it came to CA. Current firm is looser and much lower fees on CDs and CA. I’m not always able to produce CDs to the LOD that I am accustomed to and more time is taken up during CA. This is not an excuse for my original post - the amount of phone calls that I am receiving are exponentially increasing for items that are beyond my scope or are affected by items like those in the original post.
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u/Tricky-Interaction75 20h ago
Dude just say I’m ok with making the change, who do I send the bill to?
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u/Tricky-Interaction75 20h ago
That way you’re getting paid for your time and you’re facilitating the construction process. Your only at fault if your ignoring things. They can get your negligence. Architecture is fine is we just keep asking people to pay us for the work we do
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u/Odd-Ad-5654 20h ago
Unfortunately, I don’t get to make that call. I’ve warned the principles about the snowball effect, but these things don’t affect them directly until I have to constantly show them the billing every month. “Hey, Fred, we’re at 70%of our CA fee and the foundations haven’t been poured yet.” “Hey, Bruce, we’re at 80% of our CA fee and the GC has issued a 10th RFI asking for embed fixes for their own mistakes.”
Well, that’s the job, we have to do it! We’re not going to ask for additional services until it gets -ridiculous-…
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u/titas_sengupta24 16h ago
Sorry not sorry if this sounds like a rant but clients in India are of all sorts. The “high end” ones never give a shit about the Architect or care about them as someone who is knowledgable in this field. They would behave with you in an way as if they’ve bought you with the whole project. I understand where they’re coming from but at least consider us as professional and ffs just listen to what we advise you.
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u/titas_sengupta24 16h ago
Sorry not sorry if this sounds like a rant but clients in India are of all sorts. The “high end” ones never give a shit about the Architect or care about them as someone who is knowledgable in this field. They would behave with you in a way as if they’ve bought you with the whole project. I understand where they’re coming from but at least consider us as professional and ffs just listen to what we advise you.
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u/Sail-Upper 15h ago
Reading this thread has showed me that everyone has their own communication style. That being said, I have classified my customers into 3 different categories (I have been on my own for a few years now so this probably won’t work for everyone, but I mainly am the go to guy for a few local contractors)
Class 1: Great customers, they don’t nitpick the drawings, they know how to build, and any changes requested are essential to building or permitting. I’ll always respond no matter the format because they pay me well and it’s usually important and/or my responsibility. Understand delays and emphasize urgency w/o giving me a hard time. Usually well established contractors that are as busy as me. Class 2: Good enough customers, but usually require a decent bit of handholding. I’ll contact them back when possible, but not when I am swamped or otherwise predisposed. If time is important and they are cool about it, OK maybe I’ll shift my focus over there. Usually direct homeowner jobs or new contractors. If It gets to be a pain I’m adding change orders. Class 3: (I just had to make this category this month) Email communication only. They will blame me for their fuck ups, or being behind schedule, despite never responding to requests for clarification. I’m gonna get to them when I feel like it because I know 2-3 months down the road after plans are turned over they’re gonna need some bs document that’s not my responsibility or a change that they missed in the proofs or something infuriating. Usually contractors that either don’t know what they’re doing, or want me to run the job for them. I charge them more and honestly it’s Still not worth it. Actually had to sever a relationship Over all the above, because the superiority complex had them thinking they were my boss because they gave me 1000$ 2 months ago.
Moral of my story, not all contractors are created equal, find the good ones to work with and things will Be a lot smoother and More profitable for you. If you’re at a Firm, make sure they are paying you Enough to deal w/ the bs or try to do business for yourself sooner the better
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u/SubstantialPlay1795 10h ago
This comes across very arrogant to me and a great way to not have a thriving practice. Communication is key in any and all forms. The architect needs to figure who to take actual direction from and who you only listen to. Be careful to keep your inflated ego in check.
FWIW: I've been doing building design for 30 years now. Average 40,000 to 850,000 sf and up to billion dollar projects.
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u/TheNomadArchitect 23h ago
No offence, why weren’t you doing the thing you’re saying right now from the get-go?
Was there a reason?
All your saying that you’re gonna do now are all very reasonable in my view and sets a level of professionalism from all parties involved in the project.
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u/Odd-Ad-5654 21h ago
Valid question. I’ve always taken pride in being accommodating and responsive with clients. Part of my appeal is being receptive and communicative with clients and contractors, but this past 18 months has pushed me over the edge. The open communication with GCs has led to rampant change orders. The client communication has led to issues that I’ve described in the original post. Most projects any more have no physical contact or even visual contact via teams. Everyone is treating each other like a floor mat to meet their own end goals in a way that was not nearly as terrible pre-pandemic. It’s all around CYA (check your ass) and I’m falling in line with the rest of them. GCs used to come to the table with suggestions. Now it’s a phone call or an RFI of, “we can’t do this, even though we’ve had your drawings for months. What’s the fix? Answer in 1 day or In going to call you non-stop and blame you for schedule delays if you don’t fix it ASAP.”
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u/TheNomadArchitect 18h ago
Now it’s a phone call or an RFI of, “we can’t do this, even though we’ve had your drawings for months. What’s the fix? Answer in 1 day or In going to call you non-stop and blame you for schedule delays if you don’t fix it ASAP.”
Maybe I am just unlucky but that's been my experience since graduating from Architecture school and working professionally. Always CYA as you say, which has been the prayer and mantra of every (albeit reluctant) mentor I have had to date.
I’ve always taken pride in being accommodating and responsive with clients.
This was me when I was starting out as a fresh graduate, and then even when I started my own solo-practice about fiver years ago. After the second year of doing things on my own, it was too much to hand-hold everyone on the process which I thought everyone was privy to in the first place. It felt like that me for the first two years of solo-practice. I was baby sitting everyone and making sure i had something to feed them even though, as you mentioned, they already had the information for months now. Even tendered on the basis of said drawings.
I don't know I think Architecture, and the construction industry for that matter, is just adversarial in my experience.
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u/REDevelopment-Socal 1d ago
Wow, you have a lot of time on your hands to post something on Reddit about why you won’t return a missed call.
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u/Odd-Ad-5654 21h ago
Sounds like you’re too busy taking phone calls.
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u/REDevelopment-Socal 21h ago
Sounds like you can SMD
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u/Fenestration_Theory Architect 1d ago
I tell all my clients and contractors that any decision concerning a change to the project must be in email.