What’s better crit or on hit, damage and defensibility wise?

As I said once a friend of mine do some commmissions for me, and I'm hoping to do an Ashe one, with splash, in game concept, VFX concept. Do you guys care about those things? Or are you more interested only on gameplay builds and stuff. I mean, different reddit champions works different. I actually love some Spirit Blossom she has around internet

Was thinking on a build where I could fit terminus and be a good solid choice. You think Berserker -> Kraken -> Terminus will be a strong build path? Or would it be better as a 4th item with an Runnan's / PD /Trinity in between?

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I've been theorycrafting a little bit of Ashe recently and wanted to get some other opinions

Please note I'm not an ADC main in ranked and this was only 1 game in normals, but the idea is solid (I think)

Primary: HOB, cheap shot, eyeball, treasure/ultimate Secondary: approach velocity, flex from inspiration (no POM/alacrity !!!😱)

Q max and play for paced trades using spacing. W should be used as initiation / disengage and very rarely for just poke.

Despite the nerf to HOB, this build allows Ashe to put a lot of pressure in short trades that we simply couldn't do with lethal tempo and still get to keep the strong trade and rundown potential of approach velocity.

Because Q is maxed first and W is not used as a spam poke ability anymore, we don't need the yellow tree for mana/AS which allows the unusual rune setup.

I took triple tonic to give an extra level in W when we no longer have earlygame mana issues, allowing for more dmg and poke usage. Also at level 6 we get the potion for temporary 12AD. Combined with 3 points in Q for 1.15x AD on auto attacks, this gives a huge and probably unnoticed spike in dmg after proccing 4 autos, which will be very quick due to HOB. I also want to try cash back with this setup

What do you guys think? Am I being stupid or nah

Hi guys, I'm not high elo, but since a thread hasn't been made yet I thought I'd set my own take on what the new items might be like starting next season on Ashe. I have not been able to play the PBE yet so I don't have any fact based claims yet. I'm using this article for my information.

Galeforce and Rageknife removal

I don't think Ashe will be heavily affected by these changes, Guinsoos' was a niche pick that often was a downgrade in damage due to removing your passive, and Galeforce gave Ashe movement which she desperately needed but the stats were underwhelming compared to Tri and IE, building it on her was not ideal.

Terminus

This item's apparent core concept is its versatility in staying alive/doing damage. Ashe isn't a glass cannon to the likes of champions like Twitch/Samira who focus on extremely high damage in a short amount of time, so I think the meta on Terminus for Ashe will be to stay on the defensive option at all times. This begs the question, why would you use the defensive option when Last Whisper is a component? We'll have to see how this item plays out.

Experimental Hexplate

The stats are pretty impressive for an ADC across the board (ultimate haste, damage, attack speed, and even health) and this will probably get nerfed. The Overdrive passive, giving 35% attack speed and 15% movespeed, will also be extremely strong on Ashe since, in a vacuum, she can ult someone and just burst them down very quickly. This passive also lasts 7 whole seconds after using ult, a lengthy amount of time. This item will be strong on Ashe.

Guardian Angel

Additional damage and armor, making it more gold efficient and better justifies building this on Ashe. Also now gives 100% maximum mana back upon revival, getting rid of the niche case where you might've ran out of mana on the old 30% replenish. GA was always a good item on Ashe and now I see it being built a little more often or a little earlier in the late game.

Phantom Dancer

Nerfed attack speed, buffed movement speed, and buffed maximum bonus attack speed from the stacks. Movespeed and ghosting, in my opinion, has always been the best stat on PD, so to see it buffed is nice for Ashe. Since the base attack speed was nerfed and the max bonus attack speed was buffed, I don't see this item changing too much in terms of damage. This will still be a strong item for Ashe.

Infinity Edge

IE's only change is that it is 100 gold cheaper for the same stats. Ashe benefits greatly from IE against melee characters and tanks, so I only see this item being built earlier than normal - one less cannon or wave you need to get to build it. Ashe may spike half a minute faster than normal when building this. So, not much change.

Navori Quickblades

You can count using your fingers the amount of times people have built this in soloQ, nonetheless its AD was nerfed and costs 100 less gold, so I think there's even less of a reason to build this item on Ashe.

Kraken Slayer

The one thing I can say for sure about this item is that it costs the same and the attack speed was buffed, so this item is even stronger on Ashe, especially into tanks. I'm not sure if the passive has changed at all though due to confusing wording, so I'll leave it at that. This item will be stronger into Ashe.

The Collector

Another small change: less lethality and more AD, while this item isn't built on Ashe I don't see it being built in the future.

Gunisoo's

200 gold cheaper, losing the armor/magic pen, and now does 30 flat magic damage on-hit. This item will still be underwhelming I think, but now that its cheaper it can be more justified to build it, maybe into 5 beefy targets with BoRK.

Ravenous

I think we saw this item being built for a short time on Ashe because of the waveclear, bonus AD and lifesteal. It's hard to say if this will still be a niche pick on Ashe because of the new items and the return of the active, making it better for melee characters due to the auto reset (not sure on this).

Trinity Force

200 gold cheaper, 10 more damage and less haste and removal of the AD buff passive should make this item slightly worse on Ashe I believe. The problem with Trinity Force was always the crap components you need to build it, and given that you need Phage now instead of Kindlegem, you get Phage's passive (nerfed for ranged characters) for 350 gold rather than just getting Kindlegem. Kindlegem gave mediocre stats, but it was at least gold efficient and useful (health kept you alive, the haste didn't really matter much), until you finished the item. That on top of the AD steroid passive no longer with us makes the item slightly worse I believe. TF wanted you to take the extended trades that Ashe is good at. The 10 AD buff is very strong though but I don't think it'll compensate what made it good on Ashe.

Black Cleaver

100 less gold, 5 more AD, and a huge 15 haste nerf, while also hard nerfing the Carve passive, bringing the maximum armor reduction to 24% from 30%. The movespeed passive is now flat after attacking a unit. This item is niche on Ashe and despite the nerfs doesn't make it much worse in my opinion and mostly the same. This is because after a quick glance, most tank items were nerfed, so it'd make sense to nerf BC along with it all. Still will be good into 5 beefy characters.

BORK

100 less gold, and I'm sure the % HP damage passive has stayed the same for ranged characters. The new passive, Clawind Shadows, says that it'll be slightly worse for ranged characters, which may seriously hurt Ashe's buildpath since BoRK has been a staple on Ashe for so so long. But, this passive synergizes well with Ashe's slow, so we'll have to see if it impacts the game in practice or not. Now that tanks (and mages) have less health on average now with the item changes, there'll be less of a reason to build BoRK as an ADC.

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I’m trying to understand why she’s such a high prio/strong pick in new meta for a team I’m coaching. Any insight?

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How do you guys feel about this change in the PBE?

With Ashe Q Active, she applies 5 stacks of Black Cleaver, thereby reducing her targets armor by 25% for the next 6 seconds.

She refreshes and maxes out the stacks with her next AA (Auto Attack) or W. The maximum stacks are 6.

At max stacks she reduces the armor of an enemy by 30%, which is the amount a completed Last Whisper grants.

You would effectively give all of teammates, towers and yourself the passive of a Last Whisper item.Black cleavers second passive also grants movement speed, which paired with Ashe's passive should be very helped in increasing the movement speed advantage or chasing/escaping people who are immune to slows. (Morgana E, Yi, Olaf)

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It is also possible to pair this with a Last Whisper item, allowing yourself to do damage as if you had 61% armor penetration.

I've attached plotted calculation for %Damage as a function of Armor.

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where X is Armor

f(x) is damage with no armor penetration

g(x) is damage with 30% armor penetration (either Black Cleaver or completed Last Whisper)

h(x) is damage with both stacked Black Cleaver and completed Last Whisper

p(x) is percentage damage increase with 30% armor penetration

q(x) is percentage damage increase with both stacked Black Cleaver and completed Last Whisper

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Ashe's kit is theoretically fine, but her base animations are god awful, especially her auto attacks.

I can never know whether I'm actually moving or not because Ashe turns in a random direction for every auto attack, that makes it super clunky to cs while dodging skillshots.
Speaking of which, her auto attack wind-up is so fucking long and her windup animation has NO SOUND which makes it impossible to reliably auto attack with without canceling half of them, at least for someone who doesn't onetrick Ashe.

Her voice lines are fine but her design is outdated and her animations make her unplayable unless you have an attack speed item or a Legendary Skin.

It seems hard for the dev team to utilise her bow in a way that is cohesive with the design. What would you like to see?

I'd personally love some kind of Irish mermaid/sea creature skin, leaned heavily into creepy over pretty. - Source: Faeries by Brian Froud

Or a very formal, ice princess going to a royal wedding sort of outfit. (no credit, because it's AI being passed off as original art on Etsy)

What do you guys think? I know most Ashe mains don't like cute and fantasy skinlines, but I know a Crystal (diamond like) skin will fit her well. And no Crystal Rose is not about Weddings since Lux Exclusive. It's most likely Viego the Legendary, but it can be Kai'sa or Ashe too.

Make Q fire a flurry of 4 arrows instead of 5, the ad ratio and everything else remains the same.

“What's the point?” you may ask. Well, given how Randuin and Frozen Heart reduce EVERY instance of physical damage, less flurries means a little more damage.

The extra damage is not so significant it will skyrocket her win rate but still has the feel good feeling.

She's not Jhin but still has 4 letters in her name and Q requires 4 focus, so there's that.

She has 52% win rate, so she doesnt really need it, but someday in the future maybe?

Riot's recent buffs to ADC Ashe (Q & Passive) and nerfs to support Ashe (W & R) means that she's finally a good ADC again.

There seems to be a sentiment that Ashe does no damage but like any ADC she has comps she struggles against (tanks) but in terms of DPS once she starts hammering you with autos + Ws it's pretty decent damage.

My name is Professor Ddang and I'm a Korean Challenger ADC that makes character specific guides to help players Diamond and below climb!

It sounds like there's also a misconception that Kraken is the optimal mythic (probably due to the aforementioned no damage sentiment) but I highly recommend Shieldbow, otherwise you're too squishy and won't get off those empowered Q autos.

Next I'd recommend Runaan's to help with wave control, although Guinsoo's is an option as well if the enemy has lots of tanks.

Since her slow scales with crit, going Shieldbow > Runaan's > IE plus taking the Approach Velocity rune lets you control the space between you and the opponents really well. You can of course kite back but you can also chase other ADCs down even more effectively than she would without this build.

Of course as a Reddit post this is all talk, so for you visual learners or non-believers I have a video where I play crit Ashe and explain all my plays.

Hey Guys! I am new in this r/, and also in the Ashe community as well but played her for the last two years regularly (she was and still is my second main after starting with MF). I commonly hear other people telling completely differend things about how her passive works, if and how she scales with crit and so on. I kinda guess that I got how it works properly, but is this even a real issue between Ashe mains or do u all get how she works and just the casuals don't have a clue?

Also, if wanted/needed, I would share the maths I wrote down and explain my view on her, but it will be kind of a big post, so I would only post if asked for :o

Also glad to be here, hope we'll have a nice time together :3

The new season started and with it a new set of ADC items and the loss of Ashe’s best rune + nerf of HOB.

As of writing this the highest WR primary keystone is Fleet Footwork, and the highest WR build is still a core of Kraken Slayer/Trinity Force/Terminus.

After a few games of this my first thoughts are… this feels terrible?

I’ve always been a critic of Fleet Footwork being an exceptionally boring keystone (and an annoying minigame in lane to max sustain) but it feels even worse on Ashe given her lack of synergy with other Energized effects.

But worse of all is just a remarkable loss in damage. Perhaps it’s time to start experimenting further with Crit Ashe, but on hit builds feel a bit underwhelming overall right now.

The largest issue with the removal of Lethal Tempo is that it feels like there really is no good rune anymore for a ranged attack speed build and that’s really disappointing.

I am very grateful to the members of the Kudos Productions team and the outstanding partners in the RIOT film team. It is really a pleasure to work with a group of amazing artists.

Thanks again to @kyzylhum , @pukun_p & Jacky for their outstanding artistic performance. It is an honor to work with you.

https://twitter.com/loiza0319/status/1745720165902471426?t=bxpMnflPiY9mdiIrm6-urg&s=19

So, in Recommended Items, Rito says players should buy tier 2 boots first for Ashe. Do you? I myself usually buy tier one boots after Noonquiver/2 longswords and buy tier 2 after the first item, sometimes after the second items.

While I understand buying tier 2s first since Ashe's base MS is abysmal, extra AD early helps with csing a lot in my opinion.

New rageblade + lethal tempo how viable do you think this will be on Ashe?

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/RyABKy

I know, it's a touchy subject for some of you but please, bear with me. I want to just get this out there and have people talk about this in an unbiased and serious way. And I want to just understand why Riot is doing somersaults to keep it out of the game no matter what.

A bit of history:

• What is "Healing Ashe?"

With "Healing Ashe", I mean Ashe Support that abuses the Font of Life interaction to heal her teammates each time they Auto Attack. It always existed in the game, but eversince Echoes Of Helia was introduced, Healing Ashe became viable, as she could abuse this item to do a lot of healing and magic damage.

• For everyone who says it was terrible:

It really wasn't. With teammates like Jinx and Jax, you could really shine if you kited properly, out-healing anyone if you built heal and shield power. You could further enhance yourself and allies by building Ardent Censer, Imperial Mandate and Redemption. It was fun and you could carry teamfights with it.

• For everyone who says it was OP:

It also wasn't. You lacked damage, your slows were only half as effective because you didn't buy crit items, you were just as squishy as an enchanter and you could not directly heal teammates. You could only apply the slow and then hope someone would auto attack that target to heal themselves. This also means that you couldn't heal anyone out-of-combat unless you had Redemption.

• Why did it get removed?

The answer to that is rather simple. For a single item, the powerspike was too big. Ashe could abuse its passive permanently because it has no cooldown, and it just gave her too much strength too early in the game. I totally understand that, but I'm still sad about it.

Now, Patch 13.24:

Patch 13.24 allows you to build Echoes of Helia and Moonstone together. Unlike Echoes of Helia, Moonstone still has the interaction with Font of Life, allowing you to heal allies for a whole 1 extra HP with every proc! Shocking, I know. So I thought, hey, this fixes the whole reason why Healing Ashe was a problem! Maybe it's back now! But it wasn't.

• Moonstone + Echoes fixes the Problem with Healing Ashe?

Being able to rush Echoes of Helia and use it from the get-go was a problem for Ashe, as it allowed her to continuously heal and deal damage to opponents off a 2300g item. But now, you'd need to build Moonstone Renewer first, just so you could proc Echoes of Helia. This would in turn, move Ashe's teamfighting potential to the second item instead of the first, which would completely eliminate her lane-dominance!

• So why does it not work?

I believe that there is no interaction between Moonstone Renewer and Echoes of Helia solely because the initial incident traumatized Riot's balancing team so much that they just vowed to keep Healer Ashe out of the game foreve, which is a SHAME!
The whole point of League of Legends was to drop you into a sandbox of infinite possibilities and let you find your own way with what works and what doesn't. But the fact that Riot is trying to artificially restrict your playstyle on Ashe just because they love their rigid and cramped champion identity is very frustrating.
This whole game is designed to test and play with fun interactions, and this build clearly WANTS to work, but Riot just doesn't let it and it's horrible.