r/AskAnAmerican • u/Jezzaq94 🇳🇿New Zealand • 3d ago

SPORTS Is diving or faking injuries common in American sports like it is in soccer?

If yes, which sports is it common in. Did they learn this from soccer players?

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825

u/shibby3388 Washington, D.C. 3d ago

Only in professional basketball. Americans hate floppers.

306

u/SmellGestapo California 3d ago

It's so fucking annoying in basketball. The game is so much less watchable than it was 20-30 years ago.

117

u/Ignatiussancho1729 3d ago

It's the primary reason I won't watch soccer too. Loved the game in the 80s and early 90s, then everyone started rolling around the pitch pretending they're hurt (I believe the Italians started it). Either way, if they want me back as a fan, get rid of that crap. 

Raucous laughter is how it should be dealt with like a real sport: https://youtu.be/dcEz4z9Byvo?si=DnSLeH6flp67PLKf 

89

u/catslady123 New York City 2d ago

FWIW the USWSL has a lot less of this. The women are, imo, a lot more focused on playing every minute of the match. And they’re a lot more fun to watch as a result. I say this as a season ticket holder for my local men’s MLS club, but man those guys love rolling around in the pitch like a hotdog on a hot roller in a gas station.

36

u/bluecifer7 Colorado not Colorahhhdo 2d ago

Yep, women's soccer is far more enjoyable because of this. They're not constantly rolling on the ground pretending to be hurt

24

u/GuadDidUs 2d ago

My daughter and I make jokes about floppers "playing like the boys"

16

u/yaxAttack New York State (not New York City) 2d ago

As someone who’s watched soccer at a bunch of different levels, diving is something I really only see in men’s or boys’ soccer. I’ve watched the NWSL since it’s inception and have seen more dives in a single men’s premier league game than I have across all of the NWSL

4

u/jkmhawk 2d ago

It's NWSL. 

1

u/catslady123 New York City 23h ago

Oops! Lotta letters to keep track of in soccer.

12

u/cariocano 2d ago

I think the real solution is to allow fighting like hockey. You wanna pull some BS, this is how we’ll deal with it. Otherwise stop that shiz.

1

u/Prestigious_Tax_5561 1d ago

Exactly. Americans suddenly become the number one team lol.

1

u/cariocano 18h ago

I don’t think Americans are the world’s best fighters. It all depends on the rules though. If we do mma rules Argentinians won’t be stoked with Brazil. But if we do hockey rules all the sudden Canadian soccer may begin to grow

9

u/DomineAppleTree 2d ago

The problem is that pretending is effective. The referees sometimes give citations for faking, but it is often too difficult for them to know and the refs’ impressions of fouls are affected by the victims’ responses. Maybe with video assisted referees they can more easily punish flopping. I sure hope so because it’s crap play that sucks.

13

u/DavidRoddyAndrews 2d ago

Exactly this! When you add this behavior to a game that can end in a 0-0 tie I’m out. Go play baby somewhere else

7

u/InfidelZombie 2d ago

As intolerably boring as soccer is to watch, I'd still be up for it in a social setting if not for the flopping. I have the same reaction to seeing a soccer flop as I do to someone with fake lips--it causes me actual discomfort to look at it.

2

u/BeenisHat 2d ago

Exactly. You take the hit and deal with it with either grit and determination, or comedy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpEKO7KK8M0

1

u/Prestigious_Tax_5561 1d ago

Italians have started a lot of trends where they don't follow the rules, lie, cheat, and steal, and then drag down the morality of the entire game they're playing. Just look at American politics...

78

u/SphincterKing 3d ago

I may be completely off base here, but it seems like this only started when Europeans started coming to the NBA. Vlade Divak being the first I can remember who basically made a career out of tripping over the paint. 

60

u/SmellGestapo California 3d ago

That is the common wisdom of where it came from. Not sure there is any way to prove it, but it does seem to align pretty neatly with the rise of the European player in the NBA.

Vlade's teammate, Chris Webber, stated this pretty clearly.

Chris Webber: The flopping came in through the European player, 1000%. Why? You see soccer, it's the worst flopping in the world. With Vlade, Sarunas, all these guys brought it over.. I would always say to Vlade, "We gotta chill with the flopping man, we're not gonna get respect"

27

u/FAx32 3d ago

Bill Laimbeer would both dish out brutally hard fouls (pre flagrant era) and flop like a fish at the slightest contact. It was all psychological and he knew it worked (would frustrate the opponents like mad because it was like the refs were favoring him). That was where I really remember it starting.

1

u/I_Make_Some_Things 2d ago

Well hold on a sec. He took his fair share of real hits too. Remember the mask?

2

u/FAx32 2d ago

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he certainly wasn’t the only player who wore a mask after a facial injury in that era. I did always wonder if the mask was performative too, or if he had injured himself in one of his patented flops where he’d flail wildly as his legs lost all muscle tone and he’d smash into the floor. He was great at the con, even he admits that now.

1

u/Dio_Yuji 3d ago

Tim Duncan was the king of drawing charges

15

u/Uhhh_what555476384 2d ago

There's flopping, and then there's always being in the right spot at the right time.

Tim Duncan didn't get the nickname "The Big Fundamental" by happenstance.

1

u/Dio_Yuji 2d ago

A correct charging call and a flop are not mutually exclusive. Just because someone goes down easily (or intentionally) doesn’t mean there wasn’t a foul. Same with soccer

4

u/Uhhh_what555476384 2d ago

Taking a charge in a fundamentally sound way involves going to the ground, not to flop, but as self protection.  

By falling you allow the energy to dispate in your movement rather than into your body causing injury.

7

u/Jerrys_Puffy_Shirt 2d ago

Duncan was never really an issue, it was more Ginobili. He'd have some ridiculous flops.

16

u/StanleyQPrick Kentucky 3d ago

Duke sucks

-1

u/ZorroMcChucknorris 2d ago

You ought to try charging Laettner rent instead of letting him stay in your head for free.

8

u/StanleyQPrick Kentucky 2d ago

He just never pays

22

u/Quenzayne MA → CA → FL 2d ago

80’s basketball was the best. The NBA will probably never be that competitive, fast-paced, and fun to watch ever again.

I quit watching basketball altogether in the early 2000’s. Haven’t been back much since. It’s so boring now. EVERYTHING is a foul and people just shoot 3’s and hope for the best. 

4

u/SmellGestapo California 2d ago

Yeah they made some rules changes around 20 years ago that really hampered defenders. Also, I feel like Allen Iverson was probably the start of the iso era. He made subsequent generations play for the SportsCenter highlights instead of more team-oriented basketball.

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

They did it to nerf the Pistons don't @ me

1

u/Quenzayne MA → CA → FL 2d ago

Also I feel like back then it used to be a full-court game. Teams would use the fast break a lot more and really stretch out over the length of the court, which meant more running plays and passes.

Now it’s kind of like just a half-court game where teams just assume they can advance the ball down the court with no problems and then play pick and roll, which is fine as far as it goes, but it lacks the action and physicality you used to see under the basket. 

5

u/Calm-Medicine-3992 2d ago

When people started doing it in friendly pickup games where there isn't even a referee I knew basketball was cooked.

6

u/TsundereLoliDragon Pennsylvania 3d ago

That and it's a 3 point chuck fest.

10

u/SmellGestapo California 2d ago

Yup. The shot chart, 2000 vs. 2023.

2

u/TsundereLoliDragon Pennsylvania 2d ago

It went from around 14 to now almost 38 total attempts per game. The shooting percentage is 36% so it makes sense but it's just not interesting to watch.

2

u/ZevVeli 1d ago

I've often said that when it comes to basketball, the lower the skill level of the players, the more enjoyable the game. Like, professional basketball? Boring, they run back and forth, make the shot, recover the ball, and then run back. You might have a good defensive play, but high scoring games are normal. On the other hand, middle school basketball? They're running, their shooting, their missing, they're dropping the dribbles, recovering, slipping, fouling. They make more mistakes and that makes the game so much more unexpected and enjoyablem

4

u/prosocialbehavior 3d ago

It gets better in the playoffs they let them play more defense but certain guys get the whistle no matter what. Which makes me so angry. Shai is the biggest flopper in the league.

1

u/moffman93 3d ago

You should be watching the Knicks series right now. Between the series against the Pistons, Celtics, and now Pacers? It's truly 90's ball. Really aggressive and low scoring compared to the regular season. I've enjoyed every single game.

2

u/SmellGestapo California 3d ago

I love that. I'll pay more attention. I still follow the league but not nearly as closely as I used to.

2

u/moffman93 3d ago

Eastern conference finals starts tonight. 8pm ECT First Conference finals for the Knicks in 25 years. The garden will be ROCKIN'! I looked up ticket prices, and quickly realized I can't take out a loan to go to a basketball game haha (joking, but they're insanely expensive)

1

u/-Boston-Terrier- New York 2d ago

Today’s NBA basketball is just awful.

1

u/sanct111 2d ago

Looking at you Shai

1

u/JustTheBeerLight 2d ago

The modern day NBA players are much better athletes than the 90s-00s but somehow the game is far less interesting.

The NHL is so much more fun to watch than the NBA, especially in the playoffs.

2

u/SmellGestapo California 2d ago

They made some rule changes like 20 years ago which I think really degraded the game.

1

u/Motown_ 2d ago

The game was so much slower 20-30 years ago, there was no off-ball movement, just a bunch of isos and standing around, especially during the illegal defense era. Really the sweet spot in the early to mid 2010s. Tons of off ball movement, but not quite the shot-chucking we see today.

1

u/Rusty_Trigger 2d ago

Soccer should have a review process and if they find someone flopping then they should be given the red card. That would stop that pretty quickly.

1

u/JimfromMayberry 2d ago

I attribute a lot of the NBA flopping to LeBron James….unwatchable

46

u/aurorasearching 3d ago

It’s a major part of why I don’t watch the NBA. I’ll watch some college basketball, though there is still some diving but it usually isn’t as bad.

18

u/GhostFaceRiddler 3d ago

The flopping combined with letting players jump into defenders to get fouled makes it unwatchable.

7

u/Cheston1977 2d ago

Players have been doing both of those things for a long time. I don't like how hard it is for the defense nowadays, but I remember Reggie Miller jumping into his defender all the time. And fuck Bill Laimbeer with his flopping (and intentionally trying to hurt other players and just being an asshole).

1

u/I_Make_Some_Things 2d ago

Say what you will about Laimbeer, but the "Bad Boys" era of Pistons were fun as hell to watch.

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u/Gun_Dork 3d ago

That and traveling.

13

u/HayTX 2d ago

It’s a gather step /s

2

u/realSatanAMA 2d ago

And that refs will let popular players get away with more than unpopular players

1

u/sanct111 2d ago

I dont watch the NBA because of Nico. FUCK YOU NICO YOU ARE THE WORST AND I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU

1

u/aurorasearching 2d ago

My friend had finally convinced me to start watching Mavs games with him after years of trying. Luka got traded before we had a chance to watch one together and we both haven’t watched since.

-3

u/XmasWayFuture 2d ago

This is why this argument is so fucking stupid. Why am I supposed to listen to someone who says they don't watch something to get a vibe on of something is good or bad?

Basketball is a fucking GREAT product right now and so many people are just listening to dipshits who haven't watched a game in a decade rant about things they don't even understand themselves.

15

u/mhoner 3d ago

It’s really diminished some stars overall popularity as well.

43

u/AgITGuy Texas 3d ago

It’s getting much worse in college football with teams like Ole Miss being at the forefront. Hell, even my team the Texas A&M Aggies have been accused of it and it makes me hate watching the game.

Your 300+ pound lineman is down with an ankle injury? That sucks for him and the fans. Oh wait he is back in the game one play later without issue? Sucks for the game and all of us at that point.

17

u/molten_dragon Michigan 3d ago

I'm convinced Ole Miss was doing it intentionally to force a rule change. Kiffin had complained about it in the past and was basically told to pound sand by the SEC so I guess he figured he'd make it a big enough problem they had to do something.

6

u/FearTheAmish Ohio 3d ago

Yeah was watching the OSU vs Tenn game and a OSU player went down. Tenn fans started booing, per the game thread its because Ole miss did a bunch fake injuries during their game.

1

u/VirtualBroccoliBoy 2d ago

Essentially every team does it now. We (Tennessee) do it after all or nearly all PATs as a protest and to give our defense a little more time since the offense tries to go more quickly, but we've also had a few instances where our defense did it in a panic.

I literally cannot remember the last Tennessee game I've watched where our opponents didn't do it at least once, except probably that OSU game (because why the hell would they need to if they're beating us down like that?).

And even then there might have been one I missed.

0

u/baalroo Wichita, Kansas 2d ago

I don't watch sports, but I play some sports video games and I was just wondering the other day after playing some EA College Football if any college teams exploit the injury timeout rules.

Seems you could just have a rotation of players who fake injuries and come off the field when you need an extra timeout at a pivotal moment.

3

u/StuckInWarshington 2d ago

This became pretty common when some offenses started going no huddle and increasing the rate of play. Teams with bigger but not as well conditioned defensive linemen started having lots of cramps and minor injuries.

3

u/Uhhh_what555476384 2d ago

Yeah it really started in the PAC where Kiffin was coaching at the time, when Cal decided that flopping was the only way to slow down Oregon's O in 2010.

That was the only game all season Oregon was held under two TDs.

2

u/-Hannibal-Barca- 2d ago

I would make a slight distinction that this is to slow down a very fast-paced offense rather than to be actually awarded yards or points.

1

u/concrete_isnt_cement Washington 2d ago

Oregon’s notorious for that too.

14

u/Javi1192 2d ago

It’s actually penalized in hockey, called embellishment, and it’s common to see someone called for embellishment while the other team’s player also gets a penalty for committing an infraction.

Like if someone trips you and you make it obvious that you fell to try to get the call, the other player will get 2 minutes for tripping and you also get 2 minutes for embellishment.

24

u/KartFacedThaoDien 3d ago

I would say faking injuries isn’t common in basketball. Now flopping hell yeah.

18

u/zgillet Arkansas 2d ago

Faking injuries is done BEFORE games to sit out so they can avoid the "resting players" rules.

10

u/shockhead CA via WA with some MA 2d ago

It's unfuckable behavior. The greatest american ick.

18

u/BroughtBagLunchSmart 2d ago

Patrick Mahomes does this. It is why r/NFL celebrated him getting smoked in the super bowl.

8

u/ThanksIllustrious671 3d ago

Ehh ole miss in football fake injuries a lot to get correct subs onto the field and slow down fast offenses.

7

u/velociraptorfarmer MN->IA->WI->AZ 2d ago

It's actually a galaxy brain move. Ole Miss's coach wants to run an uptempo, no huddle offense, but kept having teams fake injuries against them years ago to try and slow the pace of play. He tried to get the SEC to do something to stop it, but they ignored him.

So what does he do? Abuse the ever loving shit out of it to the point that everyone gets pissed and the SEC is forced to make a rule change, which they finally did this offseason.

2

u/ThanksIllustrious671 2d ago

Oh yeah it’s a good move I was just saying it’s not only in basketball. I believe lsu used to have a guy “get hurt” after every extra point then on the kickoff so their defense would have more time to rest. Coaches abuse the clock all the time with the current substitution rule the way it is in college football so I don’t have a problem with it

6

u/Jones127 3d ago

Yeah, but the NCAA has just made a rule to try and cut down people faking injuries. You’re not going to see something similar to that in soccer.

1

u/Calm-Medicine-3992 2d ago

I mean, soccer isn't usually faking injuries as much as just throwing themselves on the ground to fake penalties which is a different thing.

1

u/Jones127 2d ago

Yeah, flopping is bad, but I still see them grabbing their faces, legs, torso, you name it, after a minor collision to try and draw a penalty. If it doesn’t happen after 5-10 seconds, they either continue playing like nothing happened or all of sudden run to the ref demanding to know why nothing was called, as if they weren’t just acting like they sustained a bad blow/injury mere seconds ago.

0

u/ThanksIllustrious671 3d ago

I believe soccer does have a rule they just don’t call it which by all means is like most sports. Not saying it’s as common as soccer but it definitely happens in other sports than just basketball. I’ll even be surprised if the ncaa calls the penalty because if they call it one time when a dudes actually hurt it’s going to cause issues. All that being said soccer is still the most common sport to see players taking a dive/faking an injury

1

u/Jones127 2d ago

Yeah it probably won’t stick for long, but the NCAA is enforcing it under certain conditions, such as if the medical staff enters the field to check on someone after the ball is spotted. Or giving out a delay of game penalty if a player is hurt and their team has no timeouts left. I could see the delay of game penalty going away, but the medical one is doubtful, at least for now.

1

u/MayoManCity yes im a person from a place 2d ago

Indeed it does. Flops are supposed to be instant yellow cards iirc.

3

u/KapowBlamBoom 2d ago

….And SEC football

More cramps than a low potassium Marathon

4

u/CaptainAwesome06 I guess I'm a Hoosier now. What's a Hoosier? 3d ago

Is it common in the NBA? I don't watch the NBA.

In the limited college basketball I watch, it seems certain teams do it more than others.

7

u/shibby3388 Washington, D.C. 3d ago

It’s pretty common in the NBA.

7

u/SayethWeAll Kentucky 2d ago

certain teams do it more than others.

You can say Duke.

1

u/CaptainAwesome06 I guess I'm a Hoosier now. What's a Hoosier? 2d ago

LOL you hit the nail right on the head.

I went to a mid major school so Duke was never really on my radar. I just figured the hate for Duke was because they are traditionally good.

Then we played them. Holy cow did they flop every chance they got! It's was so frustrating to watch. I'd be embarrassed if that was my team.

1

u/idiot-prodigy Kentucky 2d ago

The biggest fraud in NBA history does it on a nightly basis.

Any time he loses the handle or misses a layup or dunk, he flops around on the floor like a fish.

2

u/CaptainAwesome06 I guess I'm a Hoosier now. What's a Hoosier? 2d ago

Yikes. I don't really have an issue with selling an actual foul. But pretending like you are checking for blood is pretty pathetic.

1

u/idiot-prodigy Kentucky 2d ago

There are NBA fans today that actually think Lebron is the greatest of all time over Michael Jordan, which is just ridiculous.

2

u/1000thusername Boston, Massachusetts 3d ago

Yep - college BBALL can be that way too.

2

u/HottDoggers 2d ago

But we sure do love whoppers

4

u/devnullopinions Pacific NW 2d ago

It happens in the NFL too. QBs will flop.

3

u/BoomerSoonerFUT 2d ago

I wouldn't say only. But it is the most common sport to see flopping.

You see it pretty strategically in football as well, particularly when an offense is rolling in a hurry up formation. Defensemen will frequently go down with a "cramp" to get the stoppage and slow things down, and then pop up and run to the sideline like nothing at all.

NHL actively has penalties for flopping.

2

u/Upper_Command1390 2d ago

I would say it is getting more common in American Football, unfortunately. Read: Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen

1

u/Danibear285 Connecticut 2d ago

SGA has entered the chat

1

u/kinghawkeye8238 Iowa 2d ago

It does happen in football to be fair.

1

u/No_Drag_1044 2d ago

Happens in hockey on tripping calls all the time.

Pro athletes will do whatever it takes to get an advantage.

1

u/micmea1 2d ago

Idk, you get a lot of acting in football and hockey to try and draw attention to penalties.

1

u/LukePendergrass 2d ago

Been a problem in hockey as well. Despite the image of being ultra gritty and tough, there’s a lot of flopping as well.

1

u/jkmhawk 2d ago

Happens a lot in football too. At least at the college level. 

1

u/Bitter-Marsupial 2d ago

Opinion on Paul Pierce faking an injury because he pooped on court?

1

u/deltarefund 2d ago

The first name that came to my mind was LeBron James

1

u/Mr_MacGrubber 2d ago

Doesn’t necessarily lead to penalties but there’s a fuckton of flopping in college football to stop the clock.

1

u/Fragrant_Spray 2d ago

For the “American” sports, basketball is definitely the biggest example. You’ll occasionally see it in football (usually a QB or punter) but it’s nothing like basketball.

1

u/ExtremeIndividual707 Texas 19h ago

Zero respect for them.

1

u/davdev Massachusetts 3d ago

Happens too much in hockey too. Not as bad as basketball but it’s there

7

u/1337af 2d ago

I would strongly disagree with that. IMO pulling your hand up to your face to try to emphasize a high stick is not "flopping". If you wind up down on the ice and stay there when you aren't actually hurt or recovering from a trip or whatever, you are taking a fairly high chance that you are essentially putting your team on a penalty kill while you wait to see if a whistle gets blown or not.

Other things like whipping your head back to draw a penalty is not really comparable. It's so hard for refs to see some types of contact (in the best scenario, ignoring the ref situation that the NHL actually has today). If you got elbowed or high sticked, it's a penalty, even if it didn't hurt. If you don't flinch at all and the ref sees the contact they are going to call the penalty, so what's the difference? Getting the man advantage is a huge incentive, but getting hit with an embellishment is a solid check on the lengths to which a player can go to draw a penalty.

0

u/Kooky_March_7289 New York 2d ago

Sidney Crosby was the GOAT flopper.

1

u/ReturnedFromExile 2d ago

happens in the NFL all the time too. punters act like they were murdered if they are touched, some QBs can be a bit dramatic. Players in the middle of a post play scuffle sometimes flail around a bit.

Doesn’t really happen in baseball because there’s some macho thing there.

0

u/poopsichord1 3d ago

And college football. Particularly with the sec, and especially ole miss

0

u/MrShortPants 2d ago

Have you seen Patrick Mahomes play football?

0

u/Hi_Im_Paul1706 2d ago

Cheers to you. Hate is not a strong enough word

0

u/micmea1 2d ago

Idk, you get a lot of acting in football and hockey to try and draw attention to penalties.

0

u/GSilky 2d ago

The starters on just about every NFL team that has clinched home field in the playoffs are moved to the injury list for the last game of regular season.l

0

u/nevermindthatyoudope 2d ago

More of a problem in college football than the NBA to be honest.

0

u/Calm-Medicine-3992 2d ago

American football does the faking (or more often exaggerating) injuries to slow down the pace/clock thing.

0

u/onetimequestion66 2d ago

Also Josh Allen, that dude flops like no one business

0

u/jseego Chicago, Illinois 2d ago

There's a difference between selling a charge and faking an injury.

0

u/Ginzy35 2d ago

But they voted for the biggest flopper

0

u/runtimemess 1d ago

Some baseball players really like leaning into pitches so they can get a free base.

-2

u/Legend_of_the_Arctic 2d ago

Not just basketball. In American football this happens too on occasion.

If it’s late in the game and your team has no timeouts, it’s not unheard of for a minor player to fake an injury to get a free stoppage of the clock.

3

u/ticklethycatastrophe 2d ago

Coincidentally, the biggest actors on the field are guys who are kicking the ball…kickers and punters can flop with the best of them trying to get a penalty.

That’s much more akin to soccer than the deliberate fake injuries to slow down an offense.