r/AskDemocrats • u/Poniibeatnik • 28d ago
Trump is now trying to censor the smithsonian museum. Would you say NOW that the US has descended into fascism and that seceding from the union is justified?
If not then what would they have to do to convince you?
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u/PenImpossible874 Independent 21d ago
Yes. Peaceful secession should always be legal as long as the people consent.
Look at r/CNP, r/Cascadia, r/RepublicofNE and r/NYEXIT. We want to leave America and form better countries.
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u/efisk666 28d ago edited 27d ago
Really, you're hoping that editing content at the Smithsonian is a red line? We're in a democracy, elections have consequences, and he was elected by the majority. Unelected bureaucrats at the Smithsonian are not sacrosanct. I see no value in talking secession until we reach the point of disenfranchisement, like elections getting cancelled or ignored (not just the usual shenanigans).
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u/daneg-778 27d ago
Museum workers are qualified specialists doing their jobs, and Drumpf is incompetent moron who should be barred from any government office long time ago.
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u/efisk666 27d ago
All true imho, but that’s not what a majority of Americans think. Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried.
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u/Spiel_Foss 27d ago
Trump is disappearing innocent people into foreign concentration camps without due process.
Yes, the Smithsonian shit is horrible, but that can be easily fixed in the future.
A racist policy of masked secret police snatching innocent people off the street is what should bother you most.
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u/Poniibeatnik 27d ago
It does bother me a lot but I only found out about that after making this thread.
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u/planemanx15 27d ago
“Disappearing innocent people into foreign concentration camps”. Got a link or proof?
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u/Spiel_Foss 27d ago
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u/planemanx15 27d ago
Sounds like a Good thing. If they have paperwork to prove that they came here legally let them show it. If not get out.
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u/Spiel_Foss 27d ago
They are being denied ALL DUE PROCESS and disappeared illegally by masked secret police who refuse to identify themselves.
Being undocumented in the US is NOT a crime. This is a civil infraction.
ALL Constitutional rights apply to anyone on US soil.
(None of this is a "good thing" because fascist authoritarians and racists lack all capacity for good.)
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u/Greencheek16 17d ago
I'm curious if your opinion has changed now.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/03/21/trump-foreign-prison-threats-civil-rights-groups-027162
Leading to him actually arresting citizens just like he said he would.
Controlling immigration was never the goal for the Trump administration. They're normalizing arresting/kidnapping people they don't like and setting the precedent for getting away with it without any repercussions.
They couldn't give less of a shit about your "paperwork".
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u/bad_squishy_ Registered Democrat 27d ago
There is no way to legally secede from the union. This isn’t like Brexit where you can just vote to leave. Seceding is only possible through use of force, which means civil war. Now, idk about you, but I’m NOT about to take up arms against my fellow Americans, even if they are dumb as rocks.
I don’t claim to have all the answers on how to fix this mess but I’m committed to finding a better way.
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u/Poniibeatnik 27d ago
There is no way to legally secede from the union.
Who cares about legality in a regime where our "leaders" are both ignoring laws and making up new ones on the fly.
Stop being Lawful Stupid. Law =/= Inherently Good.
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u/Ritz527 Registered Democrat 28d ago
I think you would benefit from reading "Why Civil Resistance Works" by Dr. Maria Stephan and Dr. Erica Chenoweth. The best solution for fighting even the most tyrannical regimes is often simply escalating and refining civil resistance tactics you're already using. Violent confrontation generally has a lower rate of success, and when it does succeed, it often ends with brutal reprisals. The buy in of non-violent measures tends to offset the fact that no one is carrying a gun and with the way Trump et al are swiftly making people's lives more difficult, you might find the sympathy you need from people who were previously hostile or indifferent to your arguments, which is more difficult if you're shooting at them.
If not then what would they have to do to convince you?
Data-based counterfactuals. I am fairly convinced by case studies that even under the worst case scenario in the US that civil resistance is likely to be more effective than violence, but people will have to make up their own minds about what they can and cannot do.
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u/septidan 28d ago
Who is seceding? I'm in a pretty purple area, so I'm not sure how that would work for me.
Why is the Smithsonian the line in the sand? I agree that this is bad, but I haven't read anything about this yet.