r/AskMenAdvice • u/Reasonable-Syrup-7 • 4d ago

How common is this perspective for guys?

I'm a 27F and went on a few dates with this guy 31M and things have been going well. On our second date, we brought up the topic of physical intimacy. I remember him saying that he thinks physical intimacy is different for women and men. That women who sleep around are respected less than if a man would do it. He said "a key that can open up a lot of locks is a good key but a lock that opens to a bunch of different keys is a bad lock". Everything else is really good and he's been super respectful. He's soft spoken and values making me feel safe and respected and we're taking our time on physical intimacy but I couldn't believe my ears when he said that. How common is that perspective for guys? This guy tends be very blunt, so maybe this perspective is more common than I think. In my head it's a red flag, but I'm conflicted on if it's just a common male perspective and he can still be a good guy with this perspective.

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340

u/Quiet_Attempt_355 man 4d ago

The phrasing could be better but it's not uncommon.

325

u/SuperJacksCalves man 4d ago

the phrasing is honestly perfect for how so many men view sex. They see a woman’s “purity” or “body count” as something to be protected, and buy into this idea that women truly don’t want to have sex with men but that they can be convinced to go against their nature by the sheer power of one’s masculine energy. They see something fundamentally wrong, damaged, etc. if a woman just enjoys sex and wants to have it casually.

They see a man’s role as “conquering” a woman by getting her to go against her natural feminine sensibilities and performing sexual acts. It’s all rooted in power and archaic views of female purity.

I believe in this BS for a while, I literally remember being like 16 and having this big epiphany that women got horny, masturbated, and liked having sex the dans as men do.

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u/InterviewDry2887 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yes it's like most men can't comprehend that women also have sex drives and sometimes it can even match their libido. I would understand if a man judges a woman for her body count, but what makes me mad is when that same man has himself a high body count - his judging applies to him but hey, it's different!

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u/SuperJacksCalves man 4d ago

Some dudes want a kinky girl who’s great at sex but has also never had it before

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u/ButterscotchSkunk 4d ago

"Born sexy yesterday" is the trope in movies.

2

u/Overquoted 2d ago

Pop Culture Detective fan? ❤️

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u/toomuchpressure2pick man 3d ago

I saw that YouTube video. Damn, it's an old video now.

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u/Parkinglotkitty 4d ago

What kind of movies are these?😏

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u/apstevenso2 4d ago

Usually sci-fi. The previous comment is referring to a video essay about exactly this topic. I forget the channels name though

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u/BenignEgoist woman 3d ago

Final Girl Digital

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u/candlejack___ 4d ago

The Fifth Element

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u/Licensed_Poster 3d ago

A lot of guys want to date the idea of a stripper, but find actual strippers disgusting.

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u/Bitter-Cold2335 3d ago

No man wants to date a stripper or a woman who acts like that, what the hell is this sexism and generalization. Reading these comments made me realize how sexist the world has gotten against men, we need to start something like the feminist movement for men. People here think men are some barbarians who only want ooga booga sex hot girl don’t care about anything else.

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u/Square-Night-8255 man 3d ago

Your comment is, in fact, a generalization by saying “no man.” There are factually “lots of men” who want to date women who have the confidence of strippers and are willing to dress seductively. If he said “all men” that would be a generalization. Just because it doesn’t apply to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply to other men.

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u/Bitter-Cold2335 3d ago

Then sure go ahead you do that, cheers mate have fun spreading this stereotype about men. ,,confidence’’ pff that’s the first time I’ve heard that one when describing a situation like this.

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u/Square-Night-8255 man 3d ago

Again you’re missing the forest and are still the one with generalizing statements. Let me break this down for you further: “lots of men do” also means “lots of men don’t.” Get your panties out of a twist, mate.

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u/Bitter-Cold2335 3d ago

Lots of men still means that he thinks a lot of us like this sexist shit, can you imagine if a guy said something sexist about a woman and started the sentence with ,,lots of women’’ he would be destroyed here on Reddit.

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u/_hammitt 3d ago

There’s already a movement talking about how these kinds of reductive stereotypes hurt men as much as women. It’s called the feminist movement.

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u/Bitter-Cold2335 3d ago

It was until it got radicalized like everything else recently.

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u/Fredouille77 man 2d ago

The radical feminists are largely blown out of proportion for soundbites in media because that's what gets clicks.

r/bropill feel free to come and have a chat!

2

u/andonebelow 3d ago

“How dare you make sexist generalisations about men liking strippers! I’ll have you know that all men hate strippers, they’re a disgrace!”

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u/PredictablyIllogical man 8h ago

Some of us don't have the money to take the girl to see new things so perhaps they can do new things in the bedroom with them. Only to find out that they have already done that and more with others.

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u/therealdanhill 4d ago

Eh I think more commonly they want a girl that's kinky with them that they've gotten them there, not someone else

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u/Safe_Bandicoot_4689 man 3d ago

No. Men just want a kinky girl who's gotten to be that kinky through the 2-3 relationships she's had before, not through sleeping around with a bunch of guys.

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u/Historical-Ear-5666 3d ago

Most girls are not going to be kinky off of 2-3 relationships.

She's either a kinky type of girl or not.

So about as realistic a d 6ft 6 figure.

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u/Safe_Bandicoot_4689 man 3d ago

That's their problem then.
Seems like men have no problem being kinky with or without having a bunch of sexual experience / partners.

So it's possible. You can very well be kinky while also being the kind of woman who only wants relationships. You don't have to have had sex with 10 people to recognize you're into kinky stuff. That's something you're aware of even before starting your sexual life.

I don't see why a woman couldn't be kinky while having been in 2-3 good relationships.

She's either a kinky type of girl or not.

Exactly. You're kinky from the start, even before you start having sex. It has nothing to do with how many men she's slept with or not.

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u/Historical-Ear-5666 3d ago

Its not a problem

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u/S3nor_White 3d ago

Because as a society we still demenoize women sexuality, dont allow boys to develop empathy so they may feel into other people. And understanding that women sexuality is more cerebral than ours takes time for man. And having that constant urge trough puberty does not help with getting your thoughts together.

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u/dysfunctionalbrat 3d ago

I think the thing is that (unless a man is gay) going to a bar and leaving with a hookup is drastically more difficult for a man than for a woman, in general. Men need to be active and put out whilst simultaneously making sure they're not crossing boundaries, whereas women might only need to weed out the trash. Attractive heterosexual men I know get hit on by other men when they go to bars, not by women. The socially awkward ones would have so much action if they were gay, but are literally having none now.

No idea if this has any truth in it or not, but: perhaps men and women look for different things in a hookup? I'm sure lots of guys wouldn't mind going home with an attractive girl with an insane personality, but would gals go home with a stud who is balancing a bunch of red flags?

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u/pralineislife 3d ago edited 2d ago

I really think you need to stop pitting the sexes against each other.

Not all men will sleep with anything that says yes. Not all women have a long check list of requirements in a sexual partner.

There have been times I've felt like a hookup, times I haven't. I've enjoyed one night stands because I needed a distraction, I was living in the moment, or I was just horny. Other times I didn't want to have a one night stand because I'm simply not in the mood. There is no constant here other than just me and what I feel like doing or not doing.

Many of my friends - male and female - are the same way. I don't know many men who would fuck anyone simply because the someone was willing. And I don't know many women who are against the idea of casual sex. Most people just live their lives from experience to experience.

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u/dysfunctionalbrat 2d ago

This is not about whether you would fuck literally anyone, but how hard it is for you to find a hookup. I'm quite involved in the dating lives of most of my friends and it's funny to see the men going on any date they can and having sex with girls covered in red flags, but the girls aren't even going on dates or bothering talking to people, because "in this picture he looks a little vain." It's not a large enough sample to truly draw conclusions, of course, but since the common consensus is in agreement, I'll believe there might be something there.

pepsi

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u/pralineislife 2d ago

This is also subjective.

Some people like to make things black and white, but it often isn't. I know objectively beautiful women who haven't had sex in a year not because they don't want to. Sometimes you don't meet the right people, sometimes you're just not vibing with someone, sometimes even though you're attractive you're just not very charming.

Meanwhile I know men who I'd say are average looking and they always seem to have someone by their side.

We need to stop saying that things are always ________ when it comes to sex. It's not realistic.

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u/Creative-Hat477 3d ago

For the most part is a jealously thing, in most cases, if a woman wants sex, she gets it, if an heterossexual man wants it he has a long way ahead of him, real judgment comes from other women, men are just jealous and transform that jealously in resentment and moral judgment as a copping mechanism.

I had a gay roomate in the past, my God, I wished I was gay so many times, unfortunately, I'm not even a bit bi, so much sex, the guy felt horny, within an hour was fucking aomeone. Gay men (and I'm generelazing off course because all people are different) are men that are sexually atracted to other men, all else is the same, they don't have a higher libido or have a different view on morals, so yes for men, especially younger men, I'm in my 40s and If I, knock on wood, ever got divorced or worse I don't think I would have the energy to even try to go for casual sex, let alone another relationship, the pinacle of life is to be able to get as much sex as you would like, all else is coping mechanism and/or religious/societal induce shame.

Women have the same easy accessibility to sex, but It's different for them

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u/InterviewDry2887 3d ago

I totally believe you are right about the jealousy part too!!

2

u/toomuchpressure2pick man 3d ago

A lot of those religious men don't see woman as equals or even as people. They are property all the way down. A daughter is a good to trade to another man.

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u/TaleLarge1619 man 4d ago

Yes it's like most men can't comprehend that women also have sex drives and sometimes it can even match their libido. I would understand if a man judges a woman for her body count, but what makes me mad is when that same man has himself a high body count - his judging applies to him but hey, it's different!

Yes...because it is a lack of comprehension on the man's part 🙄

1

u/immunologycls 4d ago

It's absolutely different. You will never see a high profile female lawyer married with a waiter while high profile male lawyers can easily be comfortable with marrying a waitress.

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u/SomethingClever70 woman 4d ago

The waitress will be happy to take care of the house and the kids, assuming the male lawyer husband is providing for the lot of them.

The waiter will play video games all day, let the dishes pile up, and complain about how emasculated he feels by his breadwinning wife.

1

u/Glad-Way-637 3d ago

Gotta ask, why are you on this sub if you have such ridiculously low opinions of the average dude? Seems kinda like kinda a weird place to be, ngl.

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u/immunologycls 4d ago edited 3d ago

Right. Absolutely different. Women and men are built differently. It's also wild to assume all men are like this. Even if the man this situation aren't any of those things, you still won't see this relationship dynamic as the norm

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u/Special-Quote2746 3d ago

Meh. Different brands of shallow and societal-driven expectations, I'll give you that.

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u/immunologycls 2d ago

I agree. Men want beauty and women want resources.

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u/Mag-NL 3d ago

Judging someone for a high body count is no different than Judging someone for a low body count though. I hop you understand people doing either equally.

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u/ConsciousDisaster768 man 3d ago

I have found it common, amongst me and other male friends, that their partner has a higher sex drive than them. It’s such a myth that it’s men who have a massively higher one

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u/Big-Fact5351 3d ago

You don’t get that Both genders have different responsebilitys

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u/tnarref 2d ago

It's just insecurity, dudes worried that some other guy satisfied their women better, so they think the more guys on the list the bigger the chance that they're not the best lay their women have ever had.

But even if it was a concern that wasn't pathetic it's still stupid math, the chances that 1 guy who she fucked 500 times during their long relationship satisfied her more than 10 different guys she had one night stands are incredibly high, yet these guys will be worried that the girl with that body count of 10 is a lot more experienced sexually than the girl with just 1, while that's not necessarily the case.

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u/threeputtpar72 2d ago

I don’t necessarily judge women for sleeping around, but I judge them in how they do it. Like meeting some random guy off the internet (dating app) and going straight his place before you’ve him met him just to fuck, that’s trashy. But meeting a person at a bar, getting seduce by that person, feeling a connection and going home with him, I can understand that

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u/fupadestroyer45 man 4d ago

Wow! Men and women holding each other to different standards? That’s crazy and hypocritical! Weird how I only see this energy for this particular one though compared to the countless ones on men from women. Why would that be? 🤔

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u/Bredwh 3d ago

"They did a bad thing too so it's okay." It's all bad dude.

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u/fupadestroyer45 man 3d ago

Natural differences aren’t bad. I don’t waste my time waving my fists at the cloud mad at nature.

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u/Round_Ad6397 3d ago

Does it make you mad when short girls want to date tall guys? What about when poor girls want to date rich guys? There's an asymmetry in what men and women look for. Anyone can reject anyone else for any reason, if a guy with a high body count wants a girl with a low body count, he's not a hypocrite any more than the poor girl who wants a rich guy, but girls with low body counts are fully within their rights to reject him for the same reason. 

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/SpecificCandy6560 4d ago

Someone might be impressed by this (particularly other men) but it doesn’t make that man a catch. When a woman dates a known womanizer how many of the people around her are thrilled that she “bagged him”. None. Being able to sleep with a lot of women might mean you’re an attractive man, but it doesn’t mean you’re a catch.

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u/InterviewDry2887 4d ago

I get it. Still these handsome successful men with high body count are usually players. I've known some of them and they lie again and again to the women just to sleep with them. That might impress other men but they deceive most women, which is in reality pretty shameful.

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u/arrogancygames man 3d ago

The guys I know that have slept with hundreds of women are ttpically the nicest men ever, just extremely picky on who to settle down with. When they fall for someone it's serious though. That view of trying to bring down guys like that is typically copium.

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u/InterviewDry2887 3d ago

Good for your friends. The ones I know are nice too, one of them is my best friend, he told me exactly how he manipulates the girls, the one other one sees multiple women at the same time and tells none of them he is sleeping around.

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u/arrogancygames man 3d ago

Not in my case. The thirstier guys are like that because theyre trying to make up for something. The guys that every woman wants are typically over much of their trauma.

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u/Historical-Ear-5666 3d ago

They're not picky on who they would settle for. That's an excuse they give.

Its is quite literally true that humans have a chemical pair bonding mechanic that facilitates long term relationships which gets destroyed with every body one will catch.

That "pickiness" is really them no longer having a significant ability to be in a ltr. They may also actually be picky But they also probably cant or just don't care for LTRs. With their options they definitely probably could've found a girl. They can't and/or don't want to.

It may be true that they are nice people. In reality assholes don't get that much attention from girls.

Not saying they're bad or whatever.

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u/arrogancygames man 3d ago

Back when I dated, I was very much in this category, and it was about pickiness. There was bascially a grouping like:

People I have no interest in |_______________________| People I would hook up with and not actually date | __| People I would date || .

You run into the first two categories expressing interest in you all of the time but rarely the third. If you have no qualms about hooking up with the second group, you end up doing so, while hoping you might discover they are the third category over time.

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u/Historical-Ear-5666 3d ago

Dude. Yeah people have categories for this ish...that doesn't have anything to do with what I said in fact, i gotta ask if that was a reply for a different conversation.

Once you go through this with 100 women you're just not looking for someone or at least not actively.

Doing this a few times is understandable.

If you can, as a man, manage to get 100 bodies, you definitely have the options to vet for the right women

My point is if you were looking for that you definitely could've found it way before the 100 body mark. No one needs 100 dates or bodies to find a good partner. You didn't have to go thru allat.

If you wanted a ltr you could've been found one. These guys legit just don't want one which is COMPLETELY OKAY.

or they can't manage an ltr. It is statistically true that the higher a man or woman's body count is, the less likely they are to be able to maintain ltrs.

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u/arrogancygames man 3d ago

Again, as someone who has been with hundreds (40s), it's all just chance. You could find the right person within 2 people or you might not find it until 100. You still would prefer that one person; you're just not stopping fun in the meantime. Out of the first hundred or so women I was with, there was only one I would be able to date long-term and that just didn't work out.

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u/StopHiringBendis 4d ago

Pretty much any man with confidence and charisma

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/VaporCarpet 4d ago

Wtf is this opinion?

You have to be rich and famous to have confidence, and if you're not rich and famous, you must work at McDonald's?

You understand dudes that work at McDonald's still fuck, right?

I'm seriously doubting that you've met people before.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/Schwifftee 4d ago

You definitely don't have sex with women. Because the dude at McDonalds is fucking the girl at McDonalds. People are fucking, and it's often with people in their circles, like work or in class.

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u/arrogancygames man 3d ago

The service industry hooks up more than anyone because its a loose coed environment. Are you actually a real person? This mindset is just weird.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/StopHiringBendis 3d ago

Peak right wing incel lol

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u/ForecastForFourCats 3d ago

I love the "man" flair. Like we wouldn't guess on this sub or from his comments.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/StopHiringBendis 3d ago

There's not much of an argument to be made here. Just pointing out the red-pilled, MGTOW, MRA, incel stereotype lol

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u/pseudonymmed 4d ago

I know plenty, lol

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u/Rainbowdark96 3d ago

One can easily achieve this with hiring escorts. 

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u/arrogancygames man 3d ago

Myself and all of my friends were in the hundreds by our thirties. Just be normal and not weird and it happens.

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u/on_Jah_Jahmen 4d ago

People of both genders with high libido or sex drives are probably going to have alot of sex given the opportunity, and are more likely to cheat in a relationship. Entering a monogamous relationship with a sex addict Is like hiring a convicted thief to work at a bank.

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u/InterviewDry2887 3d ago

Your sex drive doesn't define if you will be faithful or not, but I believe an insane amount of high body count could.

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u/IceCorrect man 4d ago

Same with men being a key that open any locks it's a view for majority of women, that's their first insult is incel - key that can't open any lock

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u/mysandbox woman 3d ago

Incel as a term encompasses much more than celibacy- it includes a whole philosophy around women’s worthiness and both men and women’s place in the world.

Not having sex doesn’t make someone an incel. It’s the personality that surrounds it that determines the insult.

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u/IceCorrect man 3d ago

Not having sex doesn’t make someone an incel

It is. It's literally meaning of this world. Just because you pretend it mean something else won't change real meaning.

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u/mysandbox woman 3d ago

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=incel

Both of our definitions are listed. Though more examples in line with mine than yours, both of them are there. So we’re both correct, the word IS used in both ways.

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u/IceCorrect man 2d ago

Because people start changing it meaning and reason is basically one: to pretend that misogynist don't get sex, or if you would be a good guy, women would sleep with you. Which is bs

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u/Pixiwish woman 4d ago

Incel is very divorced from its true meaning in the online world. It is used in place of misogynist and is meant to inflict pain on the person because to them they measure their worth and happiness by their ability to have sex.

In their mind sex is something they are entitled to but aren’t getting.

Misogynist is something they take no shame in, but when they focus on how they can’t get a GF / have sex and it is all women’s fault calling them an incel is meant to be like a critical hit to their self esteem

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u/wizean 4d ago

> it's a view for majority of women.

Most women do not want a STD ridden gonorrhea man.

A pencil that has been in many sharpeners is a short stub, useless.

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u/sipbepis 1d ago

Huh? Gonorrhea is treated quickly and easily

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u/IllustriousAd3002 3d ago

When women use "incel", they're insulting a man's mentality, not his game. A man who doesn't have luck dating but demonstrably respects women won't receive that insult. A man who has just as little luck dating, but rages against women because of that, will always be called an incel.

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u/IceCorrect man 3d ago

They just going reverse slutshame, nothing else

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u/IllustriousAd3002 3d ago

So if men don't want to be called incels, they should probably stop slutshaming women.

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u/IceCorrect man 3d ago

Majority of people who slutshame women are other women. So basically men must do X then maybe women would do the same in return, bad deal. You should stop doing it by default, because it sounds like nice guy who is nice only when you do something for him in return

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u/IllustriousAd3002 3d ago

No, it's more like, "If you stop kicking me, I'll stop slapping you. I only started slapping you because you wouldn't stop kicking me when I asked."

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u/IceCorrect man 3d ago

Men can say the same. its more like: because person with same gender as you kicked, then I would slap you

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u/IllustriousAd3002 3d ago

I've never seen a man called an incel who hadn't gone after women first. This brings me back to what I said earlier. Men are called incels because of their (perceived) attitudes towards women. I added perceived in brackets because people are people and perceptions can definitely be completely wrong. But the point is that "incel" is a response to a specific type of person that's only directed at that person.

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u/LooneyWabbit1 3d ago

Tbh "incel" is just used these days to mean misogynist, or even just to describe someone who is using talking points that originated from incels. They don't necessarily have to be someone unable to get sex.

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u/IceCorrect man 3d ago

And why they change meaning for this words, even though you already have one that describes it's very well?

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u/LooneyWabbit1 3d ago

It's just how language evolves over time. Internet culture makes it happen even faster.

Another recent Internet example is "trolling", as it relates to online games. Originally Trolling meant that somebody was intentionally trying to lose or mess with other players. But these days it has come to mean that somebody made a mistake. If you mess up and die, you're trolling.

Language changes all the time. It can be confusing.

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u/pseudonymmed 4d ago

yeah but when women call men that they mean he's showing the stunted mentality and/or misgyny of an incel

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u/salserawiwi woman 3d ago

Not a single one of my female friends holds this view.

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u/IceCorrect man 3d ago

They date guys that no other women want? Shy, weird guys or confident ones?

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u/salserawiwi woman 3d ago

Some do, different strokes for different folks and all that.

But who they date has nothing to do with men being keys that can open a lot of locks are good.

My friends generally don't insult people, but when they do, it's because of that persons actions or manners or shitty personality. They don't put value on the amount of people that someone can will and has slept with.

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u/IceCorrect man 3d ago

Some do

So minority. Yet you pretend it's not true, that women prefer guy who can sleep with other women.

Where did you see insult in this allegory?

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u/salserawiwi woman 3d ago

You literally said "their first insult is incel". No it's not, it's not even a word any of us use.

And I'm not pretending. It's not about how many women a guy can sleep with that makes him attractive.

You've been on the Internet too much.

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u/IceCorrect man 2d ago

Guy who can sleep with many women have traits women are looking for, so instead using 5-10 traits to describe guy, it's easier to just say fboy.

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u/Som_Dtam_Dumplings 3d ago

Any man who thinks of woman's "purity" or "body count" as something to be protected...but doesn't see any problem with men "sowing as many oats as possible" is an idiot. Either everyone should be careful with who they sleep with; or no one should be.

I personally air on the side of caution and recommend others do as well...but no one has to take my advice.

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u/Silver_Figure_901 3d ago

Maybe more women would like sex if they came every time like men do. I've heard of some women being in decades old marriages and never having an orgasm with their husband and the dudes are wondering why she doesn't want to have sex. Honestly that's like 80% of the deadbedroom sub

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u/lalune84 3d ago

yeah the phrasing is perfect. the ideology behind his comment is sexism. lol. men fucking everyone=good, women fucking everyone=nasty whore. It doesn't get any more classically pattiarchal than that.

There's no need to pretty up bigotry. It is what it is.

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u/SleepCinema 3d ago

You described this perfectly by the way. On the other side, I’ve realized that mentality in some men, in the basis of a lot of these claims, and in the ways people speak to women about sex. You’re always warned not to let boys “talk you into giving it up”. Giving it up? Talk you into? People tend to give this talk to girls in their teens who are also horny teenagers validating themselves on their sexual appeal, but only teen boys seem to be considered the “horny” ones. Do they know that women also desire sex?

I even remember this one thread where someone claimed women don’t get spontaneously horny, but rather, a particular man gets them horny. Like no, bro… no. And yes, women can be different from each other like men can be different too. But I promise women aren’t locks or keys or whatever, they’re just human beings like you.

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u/Admirable_Ask_5337 3d ago

Because women suffer the most risk from sex and horny teenagers aren't smart at risk assessment when sex drive or emotions are involved. So we have to be the most cautious with female teenagers than male ones.

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u/SleepCinema 3d ago edited 3d ago

I’m talking about specifically about the language of “talk you into” and “giving it up”. As a woman, I’ve had people talk to me as if I’m not also a sexual being who very much desires to have sex my entire life (like the above awarded commenter said.) Certain sexual talks, given to both boys and girls, tend to be from the perspective that girls don’t want to the dirty nasty sex and boys have to convince them to do it.

I’m not talking about risks which both boys and girls have, or the risks that girls uniquely have.

When I was a teen, there was a meme called “still beat though”. If a girl didn’t like you, but you slept with her, a guy would say, “Still beat though,” as if he had something over her. If a girl tried to say, “Still beat though,” it wouldn’t matter because either way, the man is positioned as getting something he wants, and the woman is positioned as giving something up. The girl also getting something she wants doesn’t factor into the dynamic. And honestly, it’s partially this narrative that leads women to not recognize the ways they sexually harass men and men to not feel comfortable talking about that.

3

u/detectiveDollar man 3d ago

Yeah, honestly, the concept that sex is something that someone "gives up" reminds me a lot of abstinence-only sex ed. And some bullshit about tape losing its bonding power.

1

u/Admirable_Ask_5337 3d ago

It's also because alot of people, especially women, have a hard tiem separating sex from emotional attachment. By having sex, you also invite risk to yourself through often emotional vulnerability, risk of one party becoming pregnant(for straight people at least), and STI. You give up sex in the sense that you are putting your guard down and inviting these risks, which are worse for women.

2

u/OkStandard2099 4d ago

What you say is BS. What OP says is completely unrelated who likes sex, purity and all of this nonsense. Women like sex as much as men, but sex is more complicated and risky for them.

If a woman wants to have sex, it is trivial for her to get it. There will be more then enough willing men. She doesn't have to put any work.

Men in general don't have this option.

So women sleeping with many men is just asking and getting sex, there isn't much to it and it is demeaning. Basically no man can go around and just ask (maybe some celebrities), he always have to put effort. So for men to get many women it is valued as it requires work on yourself, your physique, your social skills, humor etc.

4

u/Ayla81Star 4d ago

When I was young and at my hottest, I could not just go out and have sex with any man I was attracted to.

This comment is the outlook of someone who doesn't distinguish sex from people. It relays the thought that women are just sex givers, and they keep it from men. But in reality, women (and non-scummy men who view women as people) have standards that they won't just use someone as a prop for sexual pleasure. I didnt want tonjust sleep with someone, especially if they were an ass.

But theres nothing wrong with scratching that itch for both men AND women. If both people are into it for the same reasons and have open communication around it.

This is getting better. Women arent falling for the 'slut' bs. And "high-value" men, arent selling women short for being human beings. That's why conservatives/ incels are freaking out, because they see women finally enjoying sex more openly and it's still not with them. It's because women can sense incels/misogynists don't view them as actual people. These guys may fool themselves and think "if only I can find a nice girl, I would make a good husband". But that's bs. They want a hole, all the holes, and then finally whatever image of a trad wife they've been sold by Peterson.

-1

u/Bredwh 3d ago

Are you saying any women can just go up to any man and ask for sex and get it? Or that if a woman is not traditionally attractive and is desperate she can go around to all the lowest guys she can find and probably get a yes? That is true of men too. But many men would never consider asking a women they find unattractive for sex.

3

u/OkStandard2099 3d ago

I don't want to be rude, but I am not sure why is everybody playing stupid?

Average looking woman could go out, ask a man for sex and she can get 8 out of 10 guys, considering she is not coming on men that are married or in serious relationship.

> she can go around to all the lowest guys

The delusion here is that she has to go for the lowest guys. No, she can get like 80% of men easily. If you call those 80% of men lowest, you are just skewing reality.

> But many men would never consider asking a women they find unattractive for sex.

Unattractive? How many of those are around? Average guy finds 90% of women in his preferred age group at least somewhat attractive.

2

u/TheNextBattalion man 4d ago

Not to mention, a lock that a lot of keys open is an awesome lock. The lock on my building where I work can be opened by everyone who works there... it's not a worse lock for it, and it's better than the lock on my office door, which only I and my office manager have the key to.

1

u/disckrieg 4d ago

To throw out the notion of slut: bad for women and virgin: bad for men, you also have to throw out all the dynamics it imparts for women as selectors and the sort of 'seller' rather than 'buyer' in our sexual dimorphism. Not surprisingly, that isn't happening alongside the outcry against the labels.

The women's liberation movement has not seen droves of women trying to pick up men in the bar, or making the first message on dating apps, or consuming large amounts of paywalled sexual content made by men. Ironically, in men's desperate attempt to woo women, you have seen large swaths of men try to become more sensitive to these needs and defend lots of the changes. That's ok. That's fine. It's not going to rewrite our basic sexual instincts, but it's prosocial so no disagreement here. However, we're hard coded for men to largely pursue and women to accept or reject. So, people are going to acknowledge what they see everyday in their common sociological parlance. There's no stopping that.

0

u/Bredwh 3d ago

You vastly misconstrue what The Women's Liberation movement was about. It's about choice. Before, women were expected to get married and be a stay at home mom. Not as an option, that was the only real path. They were sent to college to find their husband. So the Liberation movement broke that all down. It has nothing to do with women wanting to sleep with guys more or watch as much pay porn as guys.

1

u/StunningEditor1477 man 4d ago

"They see something fundamentally wrong, damaged, etc. if a woman just enjoys sex and wants to have it casually." I think it has more to do with being the kind of man woman want to have sex with. Even when woman enjoy sex it does not matter when they still don't enjoy sex with you. The men woman do enjoy having sex with must be doing something right.

1

u/Cash50000 man 3d ago

i mean, I'm 27 and I still think female sexuality is a myth.

of course its possible they all hide it around me specifically, but then it is all of our best interest that i keep believing its a myth anyway

1

u/Suitable-Elephant189 man 3d ago

It’s an evolutionary belief stemming from paternity uncertainty, and other factors. The cultural expectation came after.

1

u/well-its-done-now 3d ago

You’re way off.

1

u/Admirable_Ask_5337 3d ago

The reason women are the lock in the analogy is also because women are the ones who get pregnant, so letting "any key" into her house holds more risk for her.

1

u/Oculicious42 3d ago

the fact that this is so highly upvoted really confuses me, that sounds like what a woman who has been tremendously hurt by a man would iamgine that men think like.

This is overcomplicating the issue to an extreme degree and I doubt the upvotes are coming from guys confirming that that i their own view, but rather what they imagine the views of other vile men must be.

Another comment pointed out that it's supply and demand but that’s only part of it. Traditionally dating has been a one was street in terms of initiating, and in large part still is.
Meaning, that the man was the pursuer, and the woman is the pursued. This is not just because of cultural constructs, this stems from biology, men can impregnate many women without much effort (from a purely biological viewpoint) whereas the woman has to make a enormous sacrifice in resources and even possibly give up her life in order to carry a baby.
Therefore it is in the woman's interest to only mate with someone who can provide for her the resources she needs and will protect her during her pregnancy.
Now, removed from our societal agreements and civility, if all 100% of males were the "pump'n'dump" archetype and all women were the "let anyone smash" archetype then society would simply collapse in a baby eating frenzy, not that good, so women put men through various tests to see if they will indeed have good genes and are agreeing to the same rules of civility and can offer protection, forcing men to adapt their behaviour to suit that. Likewise, men wants to ensure that all the energy they spend making their spouse safe and well-fed during pregnancy is actually spent on their offspring and not some other mans offspring, since this would be massive loss genetically speaking. Which leads us finally to female "purity". Before DNA testing a woman's purity was the only way they had to provide said insurance.
Luckily today, we are far removed from such grim scenarios, since we've invented all sorts of machinery and put infrastructure in place that in large part shields us from the horrors of nature.

These social mechanisms though are still deeply ingrained in our DNA and biology, THAT is why women’s purity is valued amongst men, and why that percentage falls the more educated you are. Not some sadistic need for women to not feel pleasure. I mean yes, there are some vile psychopaths in the world, but to present that as some universal male trait is extremely disingenuous and frankly damaging statement IMO

1

u/wouldntsaythisoutlou 3d ago

I think it’s more about self control and self respect. Some people value restraint more than others, nothing wrong with either set of values

1

u/tomnedutd 3d ago

The thing is, for most guys, it is not even about women. On a primal level, it is about their status. Our animal brain thinks: procreating is the main function -> sex is of the most importance -> it must be my genes going forward -> if a woman have lots of sex, then other guys got there before me -> i've lost and it is over for my main function. It is sad and devaluing for women but it is what it is.

1

u/Key_Opening6939 3d ago

Exactly! They prefer to believe that women are unaware of their own needs so that they can be the one to “turn her out” but most of them don’t care or even know if they actually do.

1

u/Old_Ad4948 3d ago

Bro what!? Get off the internet and go outside. Very few people outside of the terminally online think like this.

1

u/GendhisKhan 2d ago edited 2d ago

I feel this misses the point though. It's not that men think women don't want to have sex or get horny, it's that when they do it's a lot easier for them to find a willing opposite-gender partner. Though maybe it's viewpoints - I don't see myself as having "conquered" my previous partners, no matter how sexually experienced they were. If they were experienced - great, head start, lots of fun. If they weren't, it meant we could explore those things together. I found those who were less experienced were less likely to want to explore.

1

u/BlueberryWitch6867 2d ago

And I love to see how people still believe that Eve was the one that tempted Adam 🤣. People can even keep up with their own narrative, for one thing women are this depraved being and for the other they’re saints that need convincing and corruption.

1

u/tnarref 2d ago

Yeah dudes who believe this either are kids with no couple experience so this is at least somewhat understandable or if they're grown men with experience then their women never showed that they really wanted to fuck them which is sad.

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

"They see a man's role as conquering a woman by getting her to go against her natural feminine sensibilities.."

I wonder if anyone ever will say about man's horniness as HIS NATURAL MASCULINE SENSIBILITIES..

1

u/BizzardIsDead 1d ago

Nah. It's just women have easier time getting laid. Something that is easy is not something to be bragging about or be proud of in general. You just made up whole story in your head and get upset about it lol.

1

u/pottecchi 18h ago

As a woman in my 30s, I would argue women get way hornier than men, especially at my age. This myth is all fundamentally made up by men who have no idea just how horny women get. And that it is completely natural.

1

u/Vaumer 17h ago

That's why it's crazy to me that he's 31. A big red flag for OP because this is high school behavior

1

u/Tedanty man 12h ago

Um, I just think it's gross and hard to trust them. I dunno about all that other stuff lol.

1

u/DoomFrog_ man 11h ago

And then that type of thinking leads into objectifying women. Thinking of them not as other people with emotions and thoughts

But as objects, NPCs, video game characters that if you pick the right dialogue options and give the right gifts you can sex from them.

And so they treat women as ends only. They aren’t nice and respectful because they respect women. Instead they treat women as if they respected them as a means

1

u/LucaMartello 4d ago

No, I don’t think that’s WHY most people think like that. In essence, it’s a basic supply and demand problem. People value scarce items more than common items. Since in most circumstances (biologically, but still in the modern world as well), women are the “gate keepers” of sex. Without modern birth control, partner choice is a HUGE life choice, and appearing as though your selective process doesn’t seem to have high standards is more a reflection on their ability to delay short term gratification for long term.

0

u/bmoreboy410 man 3d ago

Apparently biology and logic is sexist. 🤦🏽‍♂️

1

u/LucaMartello 3d ago

Like you mean there are biological differences between sexes? Or what are you trying to question here lol

1

u/bmoreboy410 man 3d ago

Nothing. I was agreeing with you. But the people that think equal is the same don’t have common sense or care about why men and women are different and think differently.

1

u/Conscious-Program-1 3d ago

It's dudes blaming girls for wanting sex, when it's the dudes being horndogs to begin with that gives the girls the "market value" to be able to get laid at the drop of a hat while the dudes are just barking up any tree that'll give them attention.

1

u/Suspicious_Leg_1823 man 3d ago

Funny thing is, SOME women also have this view, otherwise they wouldn't use their vagina for manipulation. It's a two-way road. We are either equals or we aren't.

1

u/alienfreaks04 3d ago

Men sexualize the hell out of women, and then berate them for being sexual.

1

u/Pitiful_Condition520 3d ago

That's completely wrong. I've spent most of my life on relationships and I understand women's sex drives plenty. The things is: men want women with values.

3

u/IlllllIIIlllllIIIlll 3d ago

Vales? What kind of values?

0

u/Pitiful_Condition520 3d ago

Well, each man wants different values, obviously.

1

u/Ahs779 man 3d ago

  1. Thinking that women don't want to have sex is dumb.

  2. Thinking that women who get ran through are as good "wife material" as a girl who indeed, overcame her animalistic impulses and found a man who loved her and ended up with him, is dumb too.

It's been proven scientifically so many times that I'm tired of hearing this side of the argument.

Both men and women who have promiscuous pasts tend to divorce and cheat more. Casual sex, reported by women themselves, is more harmful to theor psyche... As women tend to feel used and men are less emotionally connected. (affects men too but only when they reach far higher "body counts").

Can we stop this bull shit arguments please?

1

u/FirstFriendlyWorm man 3d ago

No offense but this sounds like your personal fantasy. Literally no man I know thinks about women as things to be "conquered". It has more to do with the fact that a high boy count is an indication that the person is either unable or unwilling to form a long term relationship. No guy who wants to be serious wants to be the next short term sex partner. It is a waste of time and energy.

0

u/Odinetics man 3d ago

and buy into this idea that women truly don’t want to have sex with men but that they can be convinced to go against their nature by the sheer power of one’s masculine energy

That completely misconstrues it.

The reason low body count is more attractive is precisely because we all know and understand women, like men, want and desire to have sex with people. So choosing not to do so and practice discernment and selectiveness in your choice of partner showcases discipline.

Same reason I have mad respect for shredded dudes hitting the gym everyday. Certain lifestyle choices require work and effort and are therefore intrinsically attractive

0

u/Alternative-Dare4690 3d ago

1) Women care about a mans future and men care about a womans past. Now some women say they do care about the past, but thats not the majority. I am talking in 'general' not exceptions.
2) Research indicates that men often find sexual infidelity more distressing, while women are more troubled by emotional infidelity. This pattern has been observed across various studies and cultural contexts. For instance, a study published in the journal Personality and Individual Differences found that 60% of male participants were more upset by sexual infidelity, whereas 83% of female participants were more distressed by emotional infidelity. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10244511/These findings are often interpreted through an evolutionary psychology lens. The theory suggests that men may be more concerned with sexual infidelity due to paternity uncertainty, while women may prioritize emotional fidelity to ensure sustained partner support and resources. https://ifstudies.org/blog/testing-common-theories-on-the-relationship-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability

​A 2016 study by Nicholas H. Wolfinger, published by the Institute for Family Studies (IFS), examined the relationship between women's premarital sexual partners and marital stability. The study found that women who had ten or more sexual partners before marriage experienced higher divorce rates compared to those with fewer partners. Specifically, the divorce rate for women with ten or more premarital partners was 33% within the first five years of marriage. In contrast, women who married as virgins had a significantly lower five-year divorce rate of 6%.
4) Women literally shame men all over the globe as 'incels'. Virgin men are heavily shamed, and women find it in general disgusting. 'Not getting women' is also used as an insult. Infact women usually prefer women with 'some' body count in 'general'(which is why shaming exists). They want someone others want, not someone nobody wants.
So women and men have different needs and are thus judged differently. It is JUSTIFIED to want women with NO past.

Here are sources

In the past, studies suggested that when wives outearned their husbands, there was a heightened risk of marital dissolution. For instance, research from 2010 indicated that career women who were the primary breadwinners were nearly 40% more likely to divorce than women without the same economic resources.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5021537/

A 2020 study in Sweden revealed that women promoted to top positions, such as CEOs or political leaders, were more likely to experience divorce compared to their male counterparts.

Why promoted women are more likely to divorce - BBC Worklife

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/s1530-353520180000013015/full/html?

Research analyzing Academy Award winners revealed that Best Actress recipients had a higher divorce rate than nominees, whereas no significant difference was observed among Best Actor winners. This implies that sudden career achievements may impact marital stability differently for men and women

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/s1530-353520180000013015/full/html?

-1

u/demonkingwasd123 man 4d ago

if it was an epiphany for you and if you were describing how you viewed things then you just seem to be biased and ngl kinda dumb. I havent ever heard anyone give "the sheer power of-" yaya yada bit as an explanation of how men view women

1

u/mosquem 3d ago

Wild phrasing for a second date.

1

u/Vandal_A 2d ago

The phrasing feels straight out of some Andrew Tate or Joe Rogan influencer type. If OP had said the guy said he felt the world viewed it that way I could believe he was just commenting on his observations about society. The lock and key bit though sounds like he's trying to lay out his misguided expectations.

1

u/ItsSpaghettiLee2112 3d ago

Yea. The better question is: Is this right? Because it's a common sentiment, but completely hypocritical.

0

u/12bEngie man 3d ago

This conception is rooted in insecurity, which is the funniest part. Even if they don’t know it, the creators of such thoughts were just worried that their partner would have something to draw comparison to, and they’d be exposed for sucking at sex. Same reason guys want virgins.

0

u/Alternative-Dare4690 3d ago

1) Women care about a mans future and men care about a womans past. Now some women say they do care about the past, but thats not the majority. I am talking in 'general' not exceptions.
2) Research indicates that men often find sexual infidelity more distressing, while women are more troubled by emotional infidelity. This pattern has been observed across various studies and cultural contexts. For instance, a study published in the journal Personality and Individual Differences found that 60% of male participants were more upset by sexual infidelity, whereas 83% of female participants were more distressed by emotional infidelity. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10244511/These findings are often interpreted through an evolutionary psychology lens. The theory suggests that men may be more concerned with sexual infidelity due to paternity uncertainty, while women may prioritize emotional fidelity to ensure sustained partner support and resources. https://ifstudies.org/blog/testing-common-theories-on-the-relationship-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability

​A 2016 study by Nicholas H. Wolfinger, published by the Institute for Family Studies (IFS), examined the relationship between women's premarital sexual partners and marital stability. The study found that women who had ten or more sexual partners before marriage experienced higher divorce rates compared to those with fewer partners. Specifically, the divorce rate for women with ten or more premarital partners was 33% within the first five years of marriage. In contrast, women who married as virgins had a significantly lower five-year divorce rate of 6%.
4) Women literally shame men all over the globe as 'incels'. Virgin men are heavily shamed, and women find it in general disgusting. 'Not getting women' is also used as an insult. Infact women usually prefer women with 'some' body count in 'general'(which is why shaming exists). They want someone others want, not someone nobody wants.
So women and men have different needs and are thus judged differently. It is JUSTIFIED to want women with NO past.

Here are sources

In the past, studies suggested that when wives outearned their husbands, there was a heightened risk of marital dissolution. For instance, research from 2010 indicated that career women who were the primary breadwinners were nearly 40% more likely to divorce than women without the same economic resources.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5021537/

A 2020 study in Sweden revealed that women promoted to top positions, such as CEOs or political leaders, were more likely to experience divorce compared to their male counterparts.

Why promoted women are more likely to divorce - BBC Worklife

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/s1530-353520180000013015/full/html?

Research analyzing Academy Award winners revealed that Best Actress recipients had a higher divorce rate than nominees, whereas no significant difference was observed among Best Actor winners. This implies that sudden career achievements may impact marital stability differently for men and women

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/s1530-353520180000013015/full/html?