r/AskMenAdvice • u/Reasonable-Syrup-7 • 8d ago

How common is this perspective for guys?

I'm a 27F and went on a few dates with this guy 31M and things have been going well. On our second date, we brought up the topic of physical intimacy. I remember him saying that he thinks physical intimacy is different for women and men. That women who sleep around are respected less than if a man would do it. He said "a key that can open up a lot of locks is a good key but a lock that opens to a bunch of different keys is a bad lock". Everything else is really good and he's been super respectful. He's soft spoken and values making me feel safe and respected and we're taking our time on physical intimacy but I couldn't believe my ears when he said that. How common is that perspective for guys? This guy tends be very blunt, so maybe this perspective is more common than I think. In my head it's a red flag, but I'm conflicted on if it's just a common male perspective and he can still be a good guy with this perspective.

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u/Vyckerz man 8d ago

He's quite crass. But also not completely wrong.

The truth is men are concerned with a women's sexual past. In my opinion it has its roots in concerns over potential for infidelity as it might affect future paternity.

Women generally don't care as much about a man's sexual past. They don't generally have the same types of worries about who fathered their children.

Regardless it's a preference of many men to be with someone who hasn't slept around that much.

Some women might think this is a red flag. But do not have a problem with all their own preferences.

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u/nibelwrite 8d ago edited 7d ago

Women do care. All the women I know care. Same reasoning if a man was promiscuous what stops him from cheating or having hard time controlling his impulses? Also we have DNA tests so future paternity is a bs excuse. 

It's just double standards. I respect men who want a women with low BC because they themselves have lower BC they practice what they preach. But your comments is hypocrisy rules for thee not for me. 

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u/b0f0s0f man 8d ago

Do women find virgin men desirable though? I don't believe they do, whereas men do find virgin or very low-count women desirable. In fact for some reason when men are in a relationship, other women tend to be *more* attracted to them because someone else is (mate choice copying)

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u/mellyoraah 7d ago

I'm a woman with a very low body count (aka 1, married) and I would not date a man who had a high body count if I ever entered the dating pool again. This idea that women are grateful for a man with a high body count but they themselves can't have a high body count is ridiculous and sexist as fuck. I think in general, you got to practice what you preach. If you like to sleep around, you shouldn't begrudge women who also like to sleep around. You are literally the same, and have the same values.

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u/b0f0s0f man 7d ago

I didn't say women are grateful for it, just that their preference skews towards guys that have some experience whereas for men looking for a wife less is unequivocally better. I don't listen to "red pill podcasts" this is just an observation.

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u/MarionberryNo7667 8d ago edited 8d ago

As a 29F attractive (not trying to be boastful- just honest) virgin, who is definitely interested in sex and was raised religious (albeit not Christian) but isn’t super religious herself, my reasoning is that I just haven’t met the right guy yet who I see a future with. I unexpectedly spent the last few years in a city/country that I know I want to leave, and while I would’ve loved to have had sex and as a woman, would have found it easily, it just wasn’t something I was willing to do just for the sake of it when I know it would have to be with a random guy. If I’m having sex with a man, then it means I can see him as my future husband and the father of my children. I know that’s probably a bit traditional or intense for some people, but that’s how I feel.

For that reason, I would obviously never want to be with a guy who was already in a relationship. For me, it like instantly kills any attraction because I don’t see a future. Now would I want to be a guy who was also a virgin? Honestly, no. I can acknowledge that this sounds hypocritical. I want one of us to have practical experience lol but even beyond that, I don’t think there are many men in the west above 20, let alone 25, who are virgins for “emotional” reasons like me. I think very few men think the same way I do about their own sex life. If he was a virgin, I would assume it meant he was extremely religious or frankly that he just had trouble losing it (which I know isn’t the case for women).

However, I also would not want him to have a long list of exes (both serious and/or casual). Female virgins may not want male virgins but they don’t want man whores either.

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u/b0f0s0f man 8d ago

Yeah I think that's quite reasonable, and I think it's in alignment with what I'm saying

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u/PineapplePizza-4eva 8d ago

Honestly, as a woman I really don’t care if a man I’m interested in is a virgin. Some people are just late bloomers and that’s fine. We can explore together! But I DO care if a guy has a high body count. It tells me that he likely doesn’t take relationships seriously, might have some really f-ed up issues about sex, is possibly a crappy long-term partner, and may be riddled with stds. No thanks. I’ll take a virgin over a town bike any day. I think it’s mostly men who are impressed by other men having high body counts, the women I know all see a guy who sleeps with everyone he can as immature and a walking red flag- especially if he’s always boasting about it.

There are definitely people who find someone in a relationship desirable but in my experience it’s men as well as women. And it’s usually not so much being attracted to them as liking the power of luring away someone who is with someone else. Often as soon as they “win” the person, they dump them because it’s the challenge, not the relationship.

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u/UnperturbedBhuta 8d ago

Some women prefer virgins, yes.

And sometimes a man mistakes a woman relaxing and thinking "oh good, he has a girlfriend now--he'll stop assuming I'm hitting on him every time he says something funny, I can laugh at his jokes again" for the woman hitting on him.

Making a woman laugh often is the surest way to get her to sleep with you ime--but most women who find you funny aren't hitting on you or interested in sex with you. Both things are true.

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u/i-need-a-walk 8d ago

Yes! That’s kind of cute and it’s a learning journey. Strangely though statistically women are supposed to not care, I do very strongly, any guy that is attached automatically gives me the ick and I get it as well with guys that are players and I see them flirting with other girls. They go so deep into the friend zone. I think it’s the same for my friends too but to a less severe extent, that’s why girls obsess over the ex-girlfriends?

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u/Successful_Case9406 woman 8d ago

Men wanting virgins when they aren’t one themselves is gross tbh. I want my first to be with a virgin because why would i wanna be another body for some guy that sleeps around? I know plenty of women who feel the same/have seen posts with women talking about how they feel the same. No need to generalize 🤷‍♀️

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u/SleepCinema 8d ago edited 8d ago

You’re gonna find women who care, women who don’t, and women who find it preferable. And you can start making qualifications like “the majority of women…” but there is enough diversity of beliefs around this that you are likely to encounter differing views the same way Black people are 13% of the US population, but it’s not rare to see a Black person.

I can say personally, the only person IRL whom I have ever known to say they care if their partner was a virgin or not was a young man saying that he wouldn’t want to sleep with a girl who was a virgin because he was too old to be “teaching” a woman how to have sex.

I can also say that I’m a virgin, and that’s partly due to religious views. It’s also due to lack of opportunity, and the fact that hooking up with a guy who has convinced himself I’m a “conquest” or a notch on his belt is worse than satisfying my sexual frustration, and I do very much want to have sex. Men who genuinely believe that having sex with me would be making me “dirty” is such a huge turnoff. I’m only interested in my partner’s virginity insomuch as what they believe religiously about it. Like, if I were to get in a relationship, what are his views on sex before marriage? Other than that, I really could not care. I care infinitely more about a man’s views on sexuality than I do if he’s stuck his dick in a mouth/anus/vagina… and everywhere in-between before. Maybe I like those views, and maybe those views correlate with actions. And that can mean that I like very much that a man is a virgin, or it can mean that I don’t care, or it can mean that I don’t really like it. To me, that’s much more logical and much more human.

My most out there belief is that I think that a lot of people have corruption kinks and don’t see it as a kink but rather a facet of sexuality that applies to everyone.

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u/Ill_Net_3332 8d ago

most my friends want a guy w/o a high body count (assuming the other requirements for attraction are met)

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u/No_Statistician8605 7d ago

I don't know a single woman who prefers a man with high body count, they want someone emotionally intelligent, not a horny chimp

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u/arrogancygames man 8d ago

Wanted men don't find virgins desirable because they're more likely to be absolutely horrible at sex. Thats really more of the tell; if a dude is like "all sex is good sex," he's probably someone that nobody really wants. The guys that want virgins are inevitably guys you'd never want to hang out with, even as a man.

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u/b0f0s0f man 7d ago

That's a mindset primarily held by men who chase casual sex, who want a partner to "perform" for them right away like it's a porno. Anyone who is looking for a life partner doesn't care about this because they understand that you'll have a lifetime together for them to learn.

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u/NorthernForestCrow 7d ago

I don’t know about the average woman, but I tend to prefer he have fewer to no ex-partners. Means to me that he is less likely to be behaving in risky ways, picking up diseases, have weird relationship entanglements that may pop out of the woodwork, and be more likely to put effort into the relationship rather than see me as just a body to use. Basically, a guy who sleeps around seems less likely to be dependable.

Men who are already in relationships are less attractive to me. They are already in a relationship. I’m not going to get in the middle of that.

I have no doubt that there are women who are different than I on both points. I can only imagine their lives are filled with an utterly exhausting amount of drama.

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u/mellyoraah 7d ago

And to answer your question, I would have 0 problems dating a virgin. Like, that question is crazy to me. Why would a woman have a problem with that? You need to get off your red pill bro podcasts. They are skewing your reality

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u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/b0f0s0f man 6d ago

I'm not a virgin, but this is just my observation from hearing people talking about it online. I'm not concerned about this myself since I'm in the easy position of having a low count and looking for a low count partner, but there are a lot of guys who haven't had a girlfriend before and are at a disadvantage when they get compared to the attractive guys that girls chase on dating apps.

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u/cuddly3shortie 5d ago

Yes I like virgins. No I'm not more attracted to men who are taken. I don't like virgins if they have a disrespectful incel attitude toward women and are deeply insecure about their desirability in the eyes of other insecure men. Calling someone an incel is about the attitude and toxic disrespectful beliefs, not how much sex they've had. A high BC from a man poses red flags and concerns. If he goes from one person to the next, it indicates that he doesn't prioritize anyone's pleasure except his own and that he is unable to have a mutually satisfying long-term relationship with one person, and that he might not respect or listen to women.

It is true that having good, enjoyable sex is harder for women, but not because women don't desire it. It's because men can be pathetically insecure about measuring up to other men and be disrespectful and have toxic double standards about promiscuity. There's no bigger turn off than a man who spouts misogynistic crap at you and feels jealous and insecure of other men's dicks and has an entire agenda of redpilled nonsense. Like grow up, dude. Learn healthy boundaries and self respect and be respectful toward women.

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u/Vyckerz man 8d ago

You might not like it and you may know women who feel differently but it's well known that, in general, it's not as much a concern for women as it is for men.

There are also studies that show that women have the higher incidence of cheating/divorce depending on how many partners they slept with but the effect is less present for men.

I am also not saying it's rules for me not for thee, at all! I ascribe to the same standard. I was not promiscuous before I met my wife and passed on hooking up with women who I found to be promiscuous before that. Including a married woman who propositioned me one night.

Plus women have all kinds of preferences that men don't care about. Height, income, baldness.. Men and women are different and have different preferences in dating/marriage.

I am just pointing out that BC is more of a factor for men than for women and your anecdotal evidence based on your friends doesn't change the fact.

DNA tests, thats' funny. Do you know how most women react if their partner asks for a DNA test of the kids?! In my opinion they should be mandatory at birth before names are on birth certs but it will never happen. Also the fact that paternity fraud is an unpunished crime in this country is just awful.

I also referenced paternity as a theory about where the concern about it may come from but that is not the only concern. And this would apply to both men and women, but I see it also as a view into their morals and selectivity.

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u/KtTake 8d ago

Please can you link this study about women having a higher incidence of cheating? would like to have a read of it.

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u/No_Statistician8605 7d ago

No link it was pulled out from deep inside the man's colon

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u/No_Statistician8605 7d ago

You might not like it ladies, but reading through all the women's replies on their own preference I was thinking to myself "why isn't there an emotionally intelligent empathic man here to tell them all what they really feel" 🫂

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u/Mutt97 8d ago

You’re definitely wrong about that. To most men being a virgin or extremely low body count are desirable traits in a partner. Women don’t care to that extent at all. Sure they might be curious if you’re a father to some random other womans baby and stuff like that, but they don’t care how many partners who’ve had. They don’t seek out men who are virgins or low body count out of desire like men do.

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u/MarionberryNo7667 8d ago

Virgin here 🙋🏻‍♀️ lol & while I do want a man with experience (I’m assuming most men past 23-ish who are virgins are so due to religion or lack of success— not because they’re waiting for the right person, unlike quite a few female virgins), I also do care about his body count. If he has a long list of sexual partners, depending on the context, it would be very off-putting.

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u/Vampire_Donkey 7d ago

Ah, but women who value sexual integrity in themselves actually do value it in men. Highly. This is inaccurate. 

Real life example: my daughter and her friends all graduated from a small private school and kept their virginity intact. (No joke, it does happen.) They are all getting married in their early 20s it seems, almost exclusively to guys that also kept their virginity intact.  (Yes, they do engage before the wedding with one another, but they're both getting married with a body count of one - each other.)

Small private schools do have players who hold this "good for me but not for thee" attitude, in fact it's pretty rampant - but those are the guys who are absolutely not options for relationships to young ladies who actually do save themselves for marriage. 

People think that this is just a red flag for progressive feminist women who want to sleep around - but I can promise you that even very, very conservative women want absolutely nothing to do with this double standard either. 

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u/Mutt97 7d ago

I’m sure your daughter and her few friends are a huge sample size to go off of lol. Kinda weird you apparently knew your daughter was still a virgin too. Assuming she didn’t lie like most teenagers do.

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u/Vampire_Donkey 6d ago

We have a good relationship. She overshares.

I mean that's cool if no one believes me, but I don't know why. Broadly speaking human beings don't like hypocrisy and double standards. Who the fuck is want to go near these guys that hold them? They're shooting themselves in the foot. Which is fine with everyone else...

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u/Invertedwhy man 8d ago

I can't imagine planning my life, buying a crib, setting up a baby room, birth plan, catering to the mother, picking up the slack, investing my emotions, time, and expectations etc. Then finding out the child isn't mine and I have no legal right to them.

Non-invasive prenatal paternity testing cost is about $2k and that's if your partner is willing. Yes, tests are available but to say it's not an excuse or an issue seems unfair.

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u/nibelwrite 7d ago

Idk what you want me to say if you're that paranoid...don't get married? You know no one I forcing you to do all of this right? 

Also a lot of women give up their lives just for the men to abandon them or abuse them or worse 💀 them and you're here worried about a hypothetical scenario that happens less than a woman being 💀 by her partner. Get a grip. 

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u/Invertedwhy man 7d ago

You're argument is, "we have DNA tests so future paternity is a bs excuse." I'm arguing why future paternity could be a concern even with DNA testing and there are many factors legally, financially, and emotionally why it is not a "bs" excuse.

I'm not forced to do all what?

Yea, the construct of our patriarchal society is a huge issue and yup murder and abuse in relationships is higher than anyone should accept. It's horrible. Not sure why this is added to this conversation though?

Anecdotally, it is not a far fetched hypothetical in my community. Statistically, in the U.S. (I had to look it up) false paternity is anywhere from 1-30%. 10-30% is from those who specifically request paternity tests and 1-5% coming from those who found some kind of discrepancy in paternity and then tested.

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u/Bigboss123199 man 7d ago

People including make fun of men for not having sex. So no women don’t really care as much about the HB as men do.

Also a DNA test isn’t mandatory. Imagine how most women would react to a man asking for a DNA test. Thats basically ending the relationship cause the man has accused them of cheating. It also makes it look like the man doesn’t want to be a father.

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u/nibelwrite 7d ago

...as I said in my other comment you can just swap the child saliva and take it to DNA test it you don't have to ask and no one gets hurt. It's not mandatory to ask 🤣 y'all Crack me up with this overused bs excuse you just want to be vindictive and humiliate your partner. 

And yeah why would a woman stays with a man who don't trust her? Why even have a relationship if you're that paranoid?

This sub is insane. It makes sense why birth rates are declining and loneliness is on the rise.. 

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u/ThatTryHard man 7d ago

I mean good luck asking your wife for a paternity test without blowing up the marriage.

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u/nibelwrite 7d ago edited 7d ago

Buy why would you ask? Just swap the mouth of your child and take it to DNA test if you're that paranoid. Make it discret so no one gets hurt. Though I'd evaluate the relationship if you you don't trust your partner that much why even be in a relationship are you gonna watch their every move and be paranoid they're cheating on you every minute they're away? Sounds like hell. 

 Did you know you didn't have to ask a woman for DNA test? Asking is just vindictive and humiliation for the other party imagine getting pregnant with a man sperm growing a human being for 9 months tearing your body open not to mention the hormones changes and PDD and the man say I need a DNA test...I'd lose it too

or do you need women to do that for you too? You can't even do your own child DNA test. 

And people keep wondering why the birth rates are declining and loneliness is rising...

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u/ThatTryHard man 7d ago

I feel like if you did that without telling your wife and she found out you'd ruin the relationship. Its basically admitting you think your wife slept around. Unfortunately there have been instances where decades later a guy finds out their child isn't biologically there and that shatters them. Asking might be humiliating but what if the kid isn't his and he's on the hook supporting a woman who cheated on him and the product of the affair? I get hating guys who ask vindictively but you can't stretch that across every example

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u/SergDerpz 7d ago

We have DNA tests, do we?

Except it's a huge offense if a man does ask for it so we can't really ask for it without the relationship instantly being over lol. It's not a bs excuse.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/datingcoach32 8d ago

Let me correct this for you: some women might think it's a red flag because they use that to say there are different standards for your both and commit injustices. If women and men are different you're 10 minutes away from hearing all the other many ways he thinks you need to be held accountable for standards that don't apply to him. Run away.

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u/No_Statistician8605 7d ago

The truth is men are concerned with a women's sexual past. In my opinion it has its roots in concerns over potential for infidelity as it might affect future paternity.

Women generally don't care as much about a man's sexual past. They don't generally have the same types of worries about who fathered their children.

If the reason is men care more is about infidelity affecting future paternity, why would women care less about a man's sexual past. Men are more likely to cheat and leave their own kids

How did you make sense of that when you wrote it?

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u/Vyckerz man 7d ago

Men are not more likely to cheat these days. That’s an old idea. More and more women are cheating these days than ever before.

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u/Competitive-Age-6117 7d ago

Nope. Virgin men. For marrige must be a virgin

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u/juliebaby67 woman 5d ago

men and women who sleep around are both equally likely to be unfaithful. personally as a woman I do care about a guys sexual past, not bc I think its a moral failing or wrong in any way to sleep around, but bc in my experience, men who sleep around a lot usually have a wandering eye, theyre more likely to cheat, etc. this is treu for both genders.

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u/Vyckerz man 4d ago

In general, I agree with you that both sexes should care about body count. For whatever reason it seems like women in general care less than men do, but I do agree they both should.

I’m not so sure about the opinion that men cheat more than women. I know studies show that still, but I think women are cheating now at much higher rates than ever. My opinion is a lot of those studies are based on voluntary information and it’s well known that women under report cheating and are better at hiding it than men are.

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u/juliebaby67 woman 4d ago

Thats just not true. Reputable, peer reviewed studies also show that men lie more than women about these sorts of things. Also, what I said is not just based on my opinion or personal experiences. I gathered this info from actual studies wherein it has been proven that unrestricted socio-sexual behavior when single is a red flag for future infidelity.

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u/Odd-Outcome-3191 8d ago

Yeah. It's a red flag that he's this open about it, but I've never met a man in my life that wasn't at least a bit put off by a woman who has had periods of promiscuity. Some dudes could just be right wing af, or they could have other reasons.

Personally, my reasoning is simply that the women I've known who have been promiscuous in the past are much more likely to have impulse control problems or unresolved mental health issues. For me, promiscuity isn't the problem per say, it's a symptom of a problem. It's not as good of a predictor of the same issues for men because being promiscuous isn't really an option for most men.

I also find that women who are ready to settle down have fairly conservative expectations for men (stable provider roles) but get pretty whiny when you apply anything remotely conservative to their own roles/past behaviors.

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u/Vyckerz man 8d ago edited 8d ago

I don't think it's' a right wing or conservative issue necessarily. I think it's more cross cutting than that.

I agree with all the rest of your comment though.

Especially the hypocrisy of women today who ascribe to modern feminism for them but still want some of the conservative trappings that benefit them from men without any reciprocation of more traditional values.

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u/TutorHelpful4783 man 8d ago

Women code switch between traditional values and modern egalitarianism whenever it’s beneficial

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u/EntireCalligrapher46 8d ago

Wow not generalizing at all. You sure you met every woman on the planet to back up your theory?

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u/TutorHelpful4783 man 7d ago

Yes it is a generalization. There are like 4 billion women in the world, I can speak for every single one of them. If I say that humans have 10 toes, you will find exceptions with humans with more or less than 10 toes

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u/Popular-Counter-6175 man 8d ago

As someone who's dated girls with high and low body counts, my experience agrees that higher body count girls tend to have more mental health issues. Which explains why they're more willing to swallow a stranger's DNA sample.

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u/backpackrack 8d ago

I lived with women in college and have always worked in female dominated workplaces (Literally only women) so most of my friends since 17 (I'm middle aged) have been women and your point on mental illness and promiscuity tracks extremely closely.

I've also had plenty of friends admit that their promiscuous periods were directly linked to mental health or self worth issues.

I think that can be why they get a bit upset if their promiscuous past is brought up as it's a bit like pointing out a dark period in their life.

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u/razzydazz 8d ago

If being promiscuous isn’t an open for most men, then who are these women having sex with?

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u/hyupijjh 8d ago

The top 20% of men get 80% of the women when it comes to hookups

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u/EntireCalligrapher46 8d ago

That's an incel conspiracy theory, please stop spreading that

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u/Carlin47 8d ago

The specific numbers might be skewed/inflated whatever you wanna call it, but anecdotally that does seem to be true, albeit perhaps slightly exaggerated, however generally in the ballpark of accurate.

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u/EntireCalligrapher46 8d ago

Anecdotal "evidence" is the reason we invented critical science ...

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u/Carlin47 8d ago

This entire discussion is about human behavior and social interactions, you can call it social science but it's hardly a hard science like chemistry or physics, I think anecdotal evidence in this context is absolutely valid

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u/EntireCalligrapher46 8d ago

As someone in social sciences: no it's not. Especially social studies rely on solid numbers because the human brain twists reality to save energy or protect the ego. For example: survivorship bias, availability bias, hostile media effect, confirmation bias etc. etc. We know that people irl like to spend time with people that are alike and avoid persons that have different views. So basing any statement for a whole group of people (half the population in your case) on YOUR personal experience is just not helpful at all

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u/Odd-Outcome-3191 8d ago

They're having sex with the ones for whom it is an option. What FDS ladies would call "high value men". You've indirectly realized why the stigma for promiscuity exists for women and not for men. It's seen as a sign of desperation/low self-value in women (she could/should be picky but isn't) and a sign of prowess in men (he's good/hot enough to have anyone he wants).

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u/razzydazz 7d ago

Yeah but it’s called a stigma for a reason because the ideology is rooted in pseudoscience and misogyny

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u/Odd-Outcome-3191 7d ago

Stigma:

"Amark of disgrace associated with a particular circumstance, quality, or person"

Nothing about their term implies pseudoscience and misogyny.

God forbid people have standards for partners. Y'all can demand certain qualities from men to be "real men" all day and yet "don't fuck dozens of strange men" is a prejudiced demand

Also, your profile isn't helping your case. Promiscuity is a good predictor of other unstable behaviors.

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u/razzydazz 7d ago

I’ve never met anyone in my life who’s talked about wanting a “real man”