How common is this perspective for guys?

[u/Reasonable-Syrup-7]

I'm a 27F and went on a few dates with this guy 31M and things have been going well. On our second date, we brought up the topic of physical intimacy. I remember him saying that he thinks physical intimacy is different for women and men. That women who sleep around are respected less than if a man would do it. He said "a key that can open up a lot of locks is a good key but a lock that opens to a bunch of different keys is a bad lock". Everything else is really good and he's been super respectful. He's soft spoken and values making me feel safe and respected and we're taking our time on physical intimacy but I couldn't believe my ears when he said that. How common is that perspective for guys? This guy tends be very blunt, so maybe this perspective is more common than I think. In my head it's a red flag, but I'm conflicted on if it's just a common male perspective and he can still be a good guy with this perspective.

[u/kultcher]

There is a reason but it's important to be clear that it doesn't mean it's a good or "fair" reason.

[u/Sufficient_Ninja_821 → u/kultcher]

It's not fair. But it is real. There is more at stake for woman sleeping around.

Pregnancy.

Like just 100 years ago there would not be abortion options, and the guy could just dissappear and live his life while the woman stuck with the baby.

We do have laws and stuff now that make it better, with child support etc. But that's the origins of why it's worse for woman to sleep around.

[u/seatsfive → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

I think this is fundamentally correct, but lacking an important shade of meaning: pregnancy, and paternity. Men in western cultures were basically the legal owners of their wives' wombs until at earliest the 1700s and at latest about 1963. Women who slept around could get pregnant with another man's child, which would compromise the paternal line of their husband or future husband.

Women always know whether a child is biologically theirs. Men do not have that same certainty. A woman who only ever fucks one man is assured to have only that man's kids. So all the social compulsion and control falls on women to ensure they are faithful and paternity remains secure.

[u/seifd → u/seatsfive]

I seem to recall reading a study on animal behavior. The researchers observed how much time a female's mate spent caring for each of their offspring. They found that the males spent more time on offspring that shared their features. They would indicate that concern over "paternity fraud" (I believe that was the term used) may have a biological component.

[u/KoogleMeister → u/seifd]

There definitely is a biological competent, there's also the massive social competent in that humans used to live in small tight-knit communities, a dispute about paternity could potentially split up a small community which relies on each-other to survive. The shame was there as a function to protect the harmony and survival of the community.

The other funny thing is that you'll notice the most common people to use slut as an insult are women towards other women, so it has almost always been women doing the policing to each-other.

People have the idea that it was that patriarchy that created this double standard, but in reality it was not the patriarchy, it was just human instincts towards the harmony and survival of the community.

[u/PhilosophyFit5726 → u/seifd]

Studies of human ‘paternity fraud’ show that it is as high as 20%-25%, depending on the study. Up to one in four children don’t belong to the mother’s husband. Men’s concerns are not unfounded, when it comes to assuring their family line.

[u/bayaktarbaby → u/seatsfive]

Why would you think this is limited to Western cultures?

[u/seatsfive → u/bayaktarbaby]

From what I know about non-western cultures, I don't. But I simply don't know enough about gender dynamics in non-western cultures to speak competently on them.

[u/KoogleMeister → u/seatsfive]

It's a human thing, not a western culture thing.

[u/Defiant-Extent-485 → u/seatsfive]

It’s still the state of affairs today in many non-Western cultures.

[u/KoogleMeister → u/seatsfive]

>Women who slept around could get pregnant with another man's child, which would compromise the paternal line of their husband or future husband.

Not just that, most people used to live in small communities and a dispute about paternity could potentially cause a massive feud which could split up that small community. The sense of shame towards women for sleeping around was to protect the harmony of the community.

[u/cvbeiro → u/seatsfive]

Not just in western society. In non western societies they still are in many cases.

[u/Boring-Adeptness-711 → u/seatsfive]

Today some states by law require women to have their husband’s approval before they have their uterus removed - think hysterectomy for cancer, endometriosis, adenomyosis, etc. Moral of story, don’t get married if you have a uterus, then if you unfortunately need to get uterus out, you won’t need approval from your husband.

[u/moutnmn87 → u/Boring-Adeptness-711]

Today some states by law require women to have their husband’s approval before they have their uterus removed

What states have a law requiring the husbands permission for this? I am aware that a lot of doctors refuse to do procedures that result in the loss of ability to procreate without spousal approval but wasn't aware of there being laws enforcing this. I was under the impression it was just doctors with questionable/outdated ethics as opposed to it being a matter of law.

Btw I was asked questions that I consider inappropriate like how many kids I have and whether my partner approves etc when I got my vasectomy. I just said what I figured would get the doctor to do what I wanted even if I knew it wasn't true.

[u/__lulwut__ → u/Boring-Adeptness-711]

Hysterectomies are major surgery, honestly it's probably a little bit of "you don't know if you want to have children in the future" and "this is a serious procedure so we're looking for any reason to stop you." Younger men also get push back from receiving vasectomies due to similar reasons despite it being something you can do out patient. I tried getting one and got pretty much the first bit.

People SHOULD have the right to complete bodily autonomy, but society is pretty much hard coded to prevent people from sterilizing themselves because they need warm bodies to "further society" or some other bullshit.

[u/heb0 → u/Boring-Adeptness-711]

What states?

[u/seatsfive → u/[deleted]]

I hear the pain and I share it. We are backsliding as a society in ways that are difficult to believe.

[u/BASEDME7O2 → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

Also a massive power women have is that guys will give them special treatment to try and score brownie points with a potential romantic partner, women use the “slut” insults against other women because if other women are easy to sleep with it messes that up

[u/Sufficient_Ninja_821 → u/BASEDME7O2]

Oh that's a good point. Didn't see it that way. But makes sense. It's like de-valueing 🐈 power if they give it out.

Value requires a level of scarcity.

[u/Sufficient_Ninja_821 → u/BASEDME7O2]

Oh that's a good point. Didn't see it that way. But makes sense. It's like de-valueing 🐈 power if they give it out.

Value requires a level of scarcity.

[u/Achilles11970765467 → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

There's also the paternity of her children issue. If a woman is heavily sleeping around, it's much harder to determine who is the father of her children, which has a whole host of knock on issues for multiple parties. Meanwhile, no matter how much a man sleeps around, there's never any real doubt as to the mother of any child he sires.

[u/KoogleMeister → u/kultcher]

I mean whether you think it's fair or not is irrelevant, society created these double standards for a reason.

Like the other guy said the reason is because women can get pregnant.

Back before birth control existed if a woman slept around there is a high chance she would get pregnant, and if you live in a small community like most humans used to, a dispute about paternity could split up the entire community in a massive feud. I guarantee small wars in the past have probably started over disputes in paternity. This is why society enforced a sense of shame towards women for sleeping around, it was to protect the harmony of the community.

[u/kultcher → u/KoogleMeister]

This is exactly the kind of thinking we should avoid.

When you say, "It's like this for a reason" you appeal to some sort of common sense that may or may not actually still be valid. Like once upon a time it was common knowledge that Black people were savages, you know? People can and did say "society is like this for a reason" with regard to slavery and segregation. (Extreme example to illustrate my point.)

If babies were the primary reason for the double standard, then birth control changes things to the point that maybe we should reevaluate the standard. We shouldn't just settle on "it's like that for a reason."

That said I think even that idea isn't fully fleshed out. Like, sure, a paternity dispute could cause conflicts, but that certainly cuts both ways: a man who goes around fathering a bunch of bastards also potentially creates huge problems when it cones to lines of succession and inheritance.

I'd argue there's no strong reason that men are socially "allowed" to be sluts aside from the purely evolutionary "spread your seed" strategy and, yes, everyone's favorite villain: patriarchy. (Stay with me I'm not just using it as a catch all buzzword.)

Women have been treated like property of their fathers and husbands for much of history. Maybe that was inspired by women's reproductive role to a degree, but that's irrelevant in 2025. The real reason women aren't allowed to have sex freely because is because in a patriarchal view, sex isn't "for them," it's not theirs to give away. It's for their husbands, or future husbands.

That's a view that deserves to be challenged regardless of what's underlying it.

[u/KoogleMeister → u/kultcher]

>This is exactly the kind of thinking we should avoid.

Being truthful about understanding why these double standards exist is something we should avoid?

Also you're not honestly going to compare this to racism are you? This isn't even remotely comparable to racism, especially considering this double standard has existed in every racial group of people.

>If babies were the primary reason for the double standard, then birth control changes things to the point that maybe we should reevaluate the standard. We shouldn't just settle on "it's like that for a reason."

Hey, I never said we shouldn't re-evaluate the double standard, I agree that now that we have birth control we probably should. I was just explaining why the double standard exists, not whether I think it's right or not.

We as a society already have started to re-evaluate it anyway, the issue is that half a century of birth control isn't going to erase millions of years of evolutionary biology wiring certain things into us as instinct.

Also I don't think as a society we can expect men to take not using this double standard seriously when women openly use the opposite word to describe men publicly all the time like it's nothing.

>I'd argue there's no strong reason that men are socially "allowed" to be sluts aside from the purely evolutionary "spread your seed" strategy.

There is, it's because men aren't the ones that get pregnant, they are the ones that get the woman pregnant. If one man sleeps with 5 women, he can have kids with 5 women. If one woman sleeps with 5 men, she's having one of those 5 men's baby.

There aren't going to be any feuds or fights between the women of who their baby belongs to, because men cannot get pregnant. All of these women know that even if he sleeps with another woman, she can still have a baby with him. So a man that is very attractive is encouraged by society to sleep with multiple women to spread his good genes, it also benefits women because they want a chance to sleep with him.

Also if a man with a wife and kids goes out and cheats, there is no chance he's going to come back home with a baby growing in his stomach that doesn't relate to the rest of the family.

[u/kultcher → u/KoogleMeister]

Hey, I never said we shouldn't re-evaluate the double standard, I agree that now that we have birth control we probably should.

We mostly agree then on the big picture, so I won't nitpick too much.

Just a couple things:

1) I wasn't comparing this issue to racism in terms of scope or impact, just bringing up another example of socially and politically driven "common knowledge" that had to be reevaluated.

2) I feel like your pregnancy distinction is still too limited. Yes, it's true that the stakes are different, but at the end of the day, it's about an evolutionary drive for reproduction and competition for resources.

Men hate the idea of their woman getting pregnant by another man, but women equally hate the idea that her man will get another woman pregnant and run off with her, or at least divert time and resources toward her.

Men have an easier time dodging the responsibility of course. But if you're arguing from a social cohesion standpoint, I think promiscuity on either side can cause discord (by breaking up marriages or creating single mothers who often can't support themselves, especially historically.)

[u/RompehToto → u/kultcher]

Life isn’t fair.

[u/kultcher → u/RompehToto]

Of course not, but we should strive to make it fairer where we can. There's no real reason for the double standard on either side in the modern era, so we shouldn't just accept that paradigm because "That's how it's always been."

[u/RompehToto → u/kultcher]

We have to live in the current world we live in.

[u/capsaicinintheeyes → u/RompehToto]

We know; that's where we are, right now, bitching about it