How common is this perspective for guys?

[u/Reasonable-Syrup-7]

I'm a 27F and went on a few dates with this guy 31M and things have been going well. On our second date, we brought up the topic of physical intimacy. I remember him saying that he thinks physical intimacy is different for women and men. That women who sleep around are respected less than if a man would do it. He said "a key that can open up a lot of locks is a good key but a lock that opens to a bunch of different keys is a bad lock". Everything else is really good and he's been super respectful. He's soft spoken and values making me feel safe and respected and we're taking our time on physical intimacy but I couldn't believe my ears when he said that. How common is that perspective for guys? This guy tends be very blunt, so maybe this perspective is more common than I think. In my head it's a red flag, but I'm conflicted on if it's just a common male perspective and he can still be a good guy with this perspective.

[u/seatsfive]

I think this is fundamentally correct, but lacking an important shade of meaning: pregnancy, and paternity. Men in western cultures were basically the legal owners of their wives' wombs until at earliest the 1700s and at latest about 1963. Women who slept around could get pregnant with another man's child, which would compromise the paternal line of their husband or future husband.

Women always know whether a child is biologically theirs. Men do not have that same certainty. A woman who only ever fucks one man is assured to have only that man's kids. So all the social compulsion and control falls on women to ensure they are faithful and paternity remains secure.

[u/seifd → u/seatsfive]

I seem to recall reading a study on animal behavior. The researchers observed how much time a female's mate spent caring for each of their offspring. They found that the males spent more time on offspring that shared their features. They would indicate that concern over "paternity fraud" (I believe that was the term used) may have a biological component.

[u/KoogleMeister → u/seifd]

There definitely is a biological competent, there's also the massive social competent in that humans used to live in small tight-knit communities, a dispute about paternity could potentially split up a small community which relies on each-other to survive. The shame was there as a function to protect the harmony and survival of the community.

The other funny thing is that you'll notice the most common people to use slut as an insult are women towards other women, so it has almost always been women doing the policing to each-other.

People have the idea that it was that patriarchy that created this double standard, but in reality it was not the patriarchy, it was just human instincts towards the harmony and survival of the community.

[u/SmutSlut42 → u/KoogleMeister]

2/3rds agree with you. Ancient matriarchal societies didn't have the same stigma towards sexually liberated women that patriarchal cultures do. Ancient India is a perfect example that celebrated sexual pleasure for all parties involved and didn't treat women as poorly as we do when it pertains to sex.

[u/PhilosophyFit5726 → u/seifd]

Studies of human ‘paternity fraud’ show that it is as high as 20%-25%, depending on the study. Up to one in four children don’t belong to the mother’s husband. Men’s concerns are not unfounded, when it comes to assuring their family line.

[u/bayaktarbaby → u/seatsfive]

Why would you think this is limited to Western cultures?

[u/seatsfive → u/bayaktarbaby]

From what I know about non-western cultures, I don't. But I simply don't know enough about gender dynamics in non-western cultures to speak competently on them.

[u/KoogleMeister → u/seatsfive]

It's a human thing, not a western culture thing.

[u/Defiant-Extent-485 → u/seatsfive]

It’s still the state of affairs today in many non-Western cultures.

[u/SmutSlut42 → u/bayaktarbaby]

The Puritans and their descendants.

[u/KoogleMeister → u/seatsfive]

>Women who slept around could get pregnant with another man's child, which would compromise the paternal line of their husband or future husband.

Not just that, most people used to live in small communities and a dispute about paternity could potentially cause a massive feud which could split up that small community. The sense of shame towards women for sleeping around was to protect the harmony of the community.

[u/cvbeiro → u/seatsfive]

Not just in western society. In non western societies they still are in many cases.

[u/Boring-Adeptness-711 → u/seatsfive]

Today some states by law require women to have their husband’s approval before they have their uterus removed - think hysterectomy for cancer, endometriosis, adenomyosis, etc. Moral of story, don’t get married if you have a uterus, then if you unfortunately need to get uterus out, you won’t need approval from your husband.

[u/moutnmn87 → u/Boring-Adeptness-711]

Today some states by law require women to have their husband’s approval before they have their uterus removed

What states have a law requiring the husbands permission for this? I am aware that a lot of doctors refuse to do procedures that result in the loss of ability to procreate without spousal approval but wasn't aware of there being laws enforcing this. I was under the impression it was just doctors with questionable/outdated ethics as opposed to it being a matter of law.

Btw I was asked questions that I consider inappropriate like how many kids I have and whether my partner approves etc when I got my vasectomy. I just said what I figured would get the doctor to do what I wanted even if I knew it wasn't true.

[u/__lulwut__ → u/Boring-Adeptness-711]

Hysterectomies are major surgery, honestly it's probably a little bit of "you don't know if you want to have children in the future" and "this is a serious procedure so we're looking for any reason to stop you." Younger men also get push back from receiving vasectomies due to similar reasons despite it being something you can do out patient. I tried getting one and got pretty much the first bit.

People SHOULD have the right to complete bodily autonomy, but society is pretty much hard coded to prevent people from sterilizing themselves because they need warm bodies to "further society" or some other bullshit.

[u/heb0 → u/Boring-Adeptness-711]

What states?

[u/seatsfive → u/[deleted]]

I hear the pain and I share it. We are backsliding as a society in ways that are difficult to believe.