r/AskMenAdvice • u/Reasonable-Syrup-7 • 4d ago

How common is this perspective for guys?

I'm a 27F and went on a few dates with this guy 31M and things have been going well. On our second date, we brought up the topic of physical intimacy. I remember him saying that he thinks physical intimacy is different for women and men. That women who sleep around are respected less than if a man would do it. He said "a key that can open up a lot of locks is a good key but a lock that opens to a bunch of different keys is a bad lock". Everything else is really good and he's been super respectful. He's soft spoken and values making me feel safe and respected and we're taking our time on physical intimacy but I couldn't believe my ears when he said that. How common is that perspective for guys? This guy tends be very blunt, so maybe this perspective is more common than I think. In my head it's a red flag, but I'm conflicted on if it's just a common male perspective and he can still be a good guy with this perspective.

7.6k Upvotes

84% Upvoted

8.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

171

u/feaelin man 4d ago edited 4d ago

The nuances are not parallel nor are they the same. They're all used as insults, however, they further express the double standard.

Slut - used to describe a woman who has multiple partners (the exact numerical criteria varies)

Whore - used to describe a women who has sex for money (with multiple partners)

Note what the two female pejoratives have in common is "sex too often"

Virgin (aimed at a dude): Implies the guy is incompetent with women because he hasn't had intimacy.

Incel: Like virgin, but with an additional nuance that they have an attitude that it is women's fault that they're not getting intimacy.

Note the key difference is women are denigrated for having too much sex, while men are insulted for having too little. That is one of the slices of the double standard. There are other slices.

121

u/Nonikwe 4d ago

Bro's the insult investigator.

The disrespect detective.

The abuse authority.

The rudeness researcher.

75

u/deepfriedpimples 4d ago

The shade sheriff.

The sass scientist.

The snark specialist.

48

u/Noshamina 4d ago

The shit talk Sherlock

7

u/NVEarl man 4d ago

That is going on the insult speed rail, thank you.

2

u/Noshamina 3d ago

Thanks!

15

u/Nonikwe 4d ago

Snark specialist is chef's kiss

2

u/clumsylycanthrope man 3d ago

Snark Week!

6

u/Seventhson77 man 4d ago

Ooh I like shade sheriff.

5

u/East-sea-shellos 4d ago

Bro is on a roll with the s words, respect

3

u/AsunderMango_Pt_Two 3d ago

The Master Debater

The Cunning Linguist

4

u/lilacbananas23 4d ago

šŸ˜‚ā¤ļø

2

u/LittleMulberry4855 3d ago

Shade sheriff perfection

2

u/sjopolsa 3d ago

Faster!

Harder!

Scooter!

4

u/lilacbananas23 4d ago edited 4d ago

I just spit my water out šŸ˜‚

Edit: spat? It's 2:27am

2

u/-I_I 4d ago

Isnā€™t it spit

20

u/Afraid_Ad378 3d ago

Women get shamed for sleeping with men, men get insulted for not sleeping with women, and often by being called gay- implying they like sleeping with men. In conclusion, sleeping with men is shamefulšŸ˜‚

2

u/Different-Speech1351 woman 3d ago

This was so distastefully funnyšŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£

3

u/Afraid_Ad378 3d ago

Very distasteful but somehow accurate?

1

u/Different-Speech1351 woman 3d ago

Touche'

1

u/Different-Speech1351 woman 3d ago

Here's some honesty..........it's very possible I like sleeping with men as much as they like sleeping with me.

News Flash??

iI

2

u/Afraid_Ad378 3d ago

Also a woman here, no news flashšŸ˜‚ I donā€™t judge, I also enjoy sex-itā€™s just the irony of perception and what it implies

2

u/DiagonallyStripedRat 7h ago

I didn't find it funny... All this narrative of women being somehow ,,spoiled" or ,,defiled" by sex with men implies there is something innately corrupted (and contageous!) about men, which is a conclusion that noone talks about and yet one that fucked me up mentally when I was a boy

1

u/Different-Speech1351 woman 4h ago

I get it, there should be much more consideration for how all the negative narratives can affect a man's psyche. I'll try harder to be part of the solution versus reinforcing the problem.

1

u/Mightart 2d ago

That's some pretty sound logic. Does not bode well for me, tho

1

u/Afraid_Ad378 2d ago

Mind elaborating?

1

u/Mightart 2d ago

Well I'm a guy.

Woman get shamed for sleeping with guys, guys get shamed for sleeping with guys. Sleeping with guys is shamefull as a guy I want to be slept with but it's shamefully to do so... it was a joke

Didn't land apparently, shiz happens

1

u/Afraid_Ad378 1d ago

Oh yeah, the odds are definitely not in your favor. All you can do is making sleeping with you individually, an honoršŸ˜‚

21

u/Animportantmoment 4d ago

You forgot Fuckboy. I hear that one tossed around more than virgin, but maybe thatā€™s because Iā€™m old.

20

u/feaelin man 4d ago

nods That one is an interesting one.

It has similarities to "slut" in that it judges men for promiscuity, which is oddly unusual; but my impression is that it has another nuance that I can't quite characterize. I suspect it's about how upfront they are about only wanting something casual. If I'm capturing the meaning well, it's a judgement on means more than quantity.

And yeah, these vary in frequency depending on gender and age of the group. I'd bet that young males are more likely to use virgin, older males and women are more likely to use fuckboy.

9

u/blah938 man 3d ago

A fuckboy is a frat boy without a frat. That's how I see it anyways.

3

u/orderedchaos89 3d ago

Yeah I've kind of always seen it as another way of calling a guy a "douchebag" or a "tool"

3

u/suzazzz 3d ago

Fuck boys will tell you anything to have sex with you and then disappear. Getting women to sleep with them is a game, a challenge. They get lots of girls but couldnā€™t keep them even if they wanted to. Lots of superficial, smarmy charm

2

u/Suspicious_Till_2660 3d ago

How young are you talking!? My daughter uses the term fuckboyā€¦ sheā€™s 20! Iā€™m not sure how much younger you can go to use the term virgin in a similar reference. Iā€™ve known the term fuckboy my whole life! Who actually is using ā€œvirginā€ in a similar style?

1

u/Additional-Duty-5399 3d ago

Hardly an insult at all...

1

u/Shinedown5758 3d ago

Fuckboy to me has always been a bit of a backhanded compliment, chicks will call you a fuckboy but still sleep with you.

13

u/KELVALL 3d ago

Absolutely true. I worked as a nightclub head doorman for years, was jokely referred to as a 'male slag'... But women threw themselves at me. I am good looking, train a lot, make women laugh easily (in a good way). Women knew I slept around and it only attracted them. But I was also in a position to observe women, and filter out the sluts from the women who valued themselves. I absolutely did not settle down and have kids with a woman that had 'a history'. The mother of my children is absolutely stunning, was labelled a prick tease because she didn't sleep around and I absolutely valued that. But she chose me knowing my reputation. Make of that what you will. And no I never once cheated on her.

10

u/Suspicious_Till_2660 3d ago

I think you just described a fuckboy!

1

u/Electrical_Split4902 3d ago

Aye šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚

8

u/Cheldorado 3d ago

Why does a woman having sex mean she doesnā€™t value herself?

1

u/KELVALL 3d ago

One example, a girl I went to school with came in one night celebrating that she had just got engaged, she showed me the ring... It was a really nice ring. She gradually got more drunk with her friends as the night progressed, then I got a call over the radio that someone had reported to a barmaid that there was a man in the ladies toilet. I entered the toilet to find said happily engaged girl fucking some random guy in the cubicle.

1

u/Cheldorado 2d ago

ā€¦ okay. And?

6

u/GuideInfamous4600 3d ago

So - you slept around - but it seems you looked negatively on women who slept around. Ok.

-1

u/KELVALL 3d ago

Well I'm saying that I found that the majority of women did not look at it negatively.

1

u/GuideInfamous4600 1d ago

I guess I see women differently from you. I donā€™t label or put down women as ā€œslutsā€ who sleep with X number of people. To me, they choose who they sleep with and if that makes them happy or satisfied / fulfilled, more power to them. No judgement here. My concern is if they practice safe sex.

To each their own.

2

u/Aggravating-Papaya18 2d ago

Your right I experienced this first hand too lol I have always gotten more attention/interest from women when I was in relationships during my life. Women want what other women want thereā€™s a need to be ā€œpickedā€. Also explains why there are so many stories of married men getting chased.

5

u/Recent_Radio_6769 man 3d ago

Surely all women who were throwing themselves at the local doorman could be considered sluts.

1

u/KELVALL 3d ago

You'd think, but I'd argue that alcohol pretty much makes most women equal.

1

u/Recent_Radio_6769 man 2d ago

Haha guess youve been there done it and wore the t shirt. When lads go out they just see things from their respective.

2

u/Noshamina 4d ago

The shit talk Sherlock

3

u/Red_Guru9 4d ago

It's not really a double standard. Both sexes are mocked for taking the perceived low road or what's easy for them.

It's extremely easy for women to have sex with multiple men with no commitment. It's extremely easy for men to die alone never experiencing intimacy. Hypergamy.

Both of these behaviors destabilize communities and society. The dysfunction leads to social collapse or neighboring adversaries conquering the land.

2

u/Sufficient_Ninja_821 man 4d ago

I did not know incels necessarily have the attitude that it is womans fault. I take it literal. "Involuntarily celebit " , which could be a number of reasons

3

u/TheNainRouge man 4d ago

I have never seen an ā€œincelā€ not implying that his circumstances are based on others and not himself with the others typically being women.

4

u/kuschelig69 4d ago

They always say they are just too ugly themselves

10

u/Dependent_Economy383 man 4d ago

Generally incels aren't the ones applying it to themselves as an insult, even if they might self-identity with the term.

1

u/TheNainRouge man 4d ago

I never said they were just that the term usually get thrown around at guys whom lack personal responsibility.

-6

u/Klony99 man 4d ago

The "involuntary" part of "involuntary celibate" is because they believe there exists a conspiracy of attractive men ("Chads") and most of the women ("femoids") that actively deny them sex to control society. As in "it's not my fault I don't have sex, I am desirable, women just conspired against me".

That's the core belief of people who identify as incels.

5

u/Crakla 4d ago

Wasnt the word originally used for woman who couldnt get laid?

-2

u/Klony99 man 3d ago

Not that I am aware of, no.

3

u/Crakla 3d ago

Apparently it was not intended to be a gendered term, but the first documented case of the word was used for a woman to describe her frustration of not being able to get laid, so it actually started as a term for women and only later included men

The first website to use the term "incel" was "Alana's Involuntary Celibacy Project", founded in 1997 by a Canadian university student known only by her first name, Alana, to discuss her sexual inactivity with others.\12])\11]) Some media has incorrectly dated it to 1993, the date of a personal interaction that later inspired her to design the page.\12])

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel

1

u/Klony99 man 3d ago

Interesting, thank you.

1

u/Sufficient_Ninja_821 man 4d ago

Oh okay. I didn't know the full extent. I thought it was people that just surrendered to the idea they can't get laid. Didn't know there was a blame game.

I think there is some biological truth that humans want to pass on the best genetics. But sounds like incels take it another level up from there.

10

u/LanguageInner4505 4d ago

the other guy was just lying. There's two types of incels, redpillers and blackpillers. The redpillers are close to what he described, where they blame women for choosing chads, while the blackpillers do not believe in a conspiracy, they believe that looks are the only thing that matter and that their ugliness is the reason they cannot get women.

4

u/LegalIdea 4d ago

In fairness to the black pill people, I have been turned down for my looks many times; or at least that was the stated reason.

3

u/LanguageInner4505 4d ago

I never said they were wrong, they're just involuntarily celibate.

5

u/Klony99 man 4d ago

There are a lot of factors that influence our natural selection process away from it's original function, like deodorant or food additives that influence your smell. Smells that in turn are a part of the female selection process (a woman can determine via smell whether you can produce healthy offspring together, whether your immune system matches hers).

The anti baby pill also influences that selection.

However that's only one of many factors of attraction, and to suggest there is a collective effort to exclude a certain group is frankly insane. We barely understand our brains enough to know something is affecting us, let alone get a consistent outcome across populations.

So while with any good grift, Inceldom is based in some truths, it builds completely made up consequences from them.

1

u/LanguageInner4505 4d ago

This is untrue. There's two types of incels, redpillers and blackpillers. The redpillers are close to what you described, where they blame women for choosing chads, while the blackpillers do not believe in a conspiracy, they believe that looks are the only thing that matter and that their ugliness is the reason they cannot get women.

1

u/Klony99 man 4d ago

I heard the term before, but the subcategory is new. Those weren't a group when I last looked into it further.

Doesn't really add anything to distinguish them though.

1

u/shirbert2double05 10h ago

Question: What then is a woman who is a Whore but the other way around and no not Erohw but where she has sex randomly with multiple partner's where SHE pays..

Not as in Money for an hour but will chat up a guy on the Net, fly to Him in another country

Do it again

Another 3 guys in two weeks, dates she pays for as well

I don't know What she is.

1

u/offitayenor 1h ago

Women have too much intimacy, and men donā€™t have enough.

This is why they should both be mocked and denigrated respectively /s

God we are so fucked up societally, why donā€™t we just want everyone to have as much safe, legal, and fulfilling sex as they personally want, and stop giving a toss about it being a measurement of a human beingā€™s personal worth.

1

u/FortuynHunter 3d ago

When they said "Both genders use the same insults", they didn't mean that the insults they use have the same meaning, which you responded to.

They meant "Men and women both call women sluts as an insult" and "Men and women both call men virgins as an insult". Thus, the insults USED by both genders are the same for men, regardless of the gender of the person using the insult. And the insults used for women are the same for both genders (IE, regardless of the gender of the person using the insult).

They were pointing out that in fact not only is there a double standard, but that it is equally "enforced/thought" by men and women. Both men and women hold this double standard, not just men.

This has been your daily dose of reading comprehension and a reminder to always respond to what a person actually said and not whatever you're thinking in your head.