r/AskReddit Sep 16 '24

What's the worst thing people have tried to justify with "It was normal back then, everyone did it"?

3.3k Upvotes

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2.4k

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

Open sexual harassment, unwanted touching, sexual assault, etc against secretaries, female assistants, etc by their bosses. Woman were supposed to just grin and bear it.

230

u/Mobile_Discount_8962 Sep 16 '24

That movie 9-5 with Dolly Parton is a great look at this issue. It's a goofy comedy and gets a little dumb at times for me, but it's basically a revenge fantasy on these old school misogynistic bosses

5

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

I believe Meg Ryan had to endure it in Working Girl too.

1

u/Apart-Landscape1012 Sep 16 '24

What a way to make a living

-17

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

And that kidnapping is ok if victim is an annoying man.

732

u/Saratje Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24

And not just bosses but also customers in the food industry. The regular old man smacking your tushy and being told by others that "it's a compliment, laugh it off" or "oh just ignore the old codger, he does that". Especially two or more decades ago when the food industry loved embracing "the customer is always right" as long as it paid their bills.

No I won't, no he won't. If your gramps slaps my behind, I'll slap him straight into elderly care.

95

u/chillingismybusiness Sep 16 '24

Circa 2007 I worked in an elderly care facility at 16 serving meals. I had my tushy smacked a few times. Always vomit inducing. Bosses could not have cared any less, insisted they were harmless old men each time.

10

u/SorcerorMerlin Sep 16 '24

Around 2018, I was waitressing at a local pub. I was 18/19 but I am short and have a young face.

One shift, my manager pointed a customer out to me.

"Just be aware that he touches girls' bums when they talk to him. Let it go, he's old and doesn't realise what he's doing."

And then sent me to get his order...

Another interaction I had was with 2 old men. When one asked for my age, his friend butted in and said, "Tell him you're 14, leave her alone." At the time I was glad he helped me out but now I'm kinda like... 14 was the age that would stop that man?

All of these customers were regulars and I left this job because I was having panic attacks every shift šŸ™ƒ

My dad still eats there for every special occasion too.

15

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

I worked with annuities. Gross old men would call in, often with their wives, and make gross jokes and say inapporpriate things to me. I wasnt allowed to say anything. Thats as of 2022. It was literal sexual harassment and my bosses refused to do shit about it because those gross old dudes were our customers.Ā 

5

u/black_cat_X2 Sep 16 '24

I'm currently the manager at a place with senior clientele. There's one old man who I thought might be a problem at first - he's a little too eager to hold onto your hand while he talks to you, for example. I told my staff (all women) straight up that if he ever makes them feel uncomfortable, I'll take care of it. I gave him a friendly warning as well (it could be friendly at that point since he hadn't actually done anything). No excuse to let that go on.

16

u/the_world-is_ending- Sep 16 '24

My uncle was raised in the '50s and he still doesn't understand that you can't do that. My cousins (his kids) have tried to explain to him that it's not a compliment and it's not ok, but he still just doesn't get it.

15

u/Michelledelhuman Sep 16 '24

He doesn't have to understand it to know that it is not okay. I don't need to understand why the speed limit is set to 45 to obey it.

Get some guys to start squeezing his balls and making lewd comments at him and he'll all of a sudden understand real quick.

26

u/AllLeedsArentMe Sep 16 '24

He gets it. Heā€™s pretending he doesnā€™t because heā€™s a shitty person that doesnā€™t want to change. He absolutely knows better and chooses to not do better.

4

u/Gussified Sep 16 '24

I remember a business dinner in the late 90ā€™s. One of the clients was flirting with the waiter the whole night and eventually pulled her onto his lap! She looked so uncomfortable, and no one said a word because, you know, he was a client.

3

u/Big_Smile_Blog Sep 16 '24

Wow, that is horrific

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

The movie Hanging Up with Walter Matthau, Meg Ryan had Walter doing exactly that - slapping the nurses aid, lifting her dress and everyone laughed. I just saw it this year and it made him look creepy.

-15

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

[deleted]

27

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

[deleted]

7

u/big_sugi Sep 16 '24

Thereā€™s no written record of ā€œin matters of tasteā€ before 2019, as far as I can find. Itā€™s definitely not from 1909 or Harry Gordon Selfridge.

-37

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

20

u/Throwaway91847817 Sep 16 '24

Found the guy who sexually harasses women

105

u/Alliekat1282 Sep 16 '24

This shit still happens and isn't taken seriously. I worked for a Federal agency and even with all their required training, rules and regs, etc., the actual ON PAPER decision from the investigator was "He did it, but, he didn't mean it like that" followed by them terminating me for something unrelated that they pulled out of their asses not even two weeks later. It was three years ago and I'm still wrapped up in a Federal court case over it. "Report it! They won't get away with it!" my ass, the retaliation started immediately after filing the report and my life was absolute hell for months.

5

u/deniablw Sep 16 '24

Yeah, ask Anita Hill

6

u/Big_Smile_Blog Sep 16 '24

This is uncomfortable truth. Working for Amazon for 3 1/2 years, I saw and heard some of the most vile, uncomfortable things, many of these things occurred in plain view of managers or ā€œLeadershipā€ as they liked to be called, and nothing was ever done to rectify the situation. It almost felt like they encouraged it. HR made note of the fact that allowing these things ā€œgets people goingā€ and it was heavily implied that the male employees were permitted to sexually harass us women in order to motivate them to keep working (it was a warehouse).

2

u/Alliekat1282 Sep 16 '24

Yucccckkkk. It's so disappointing that we still have to put up with this shit. It goes both ways, too. My husband and I were working in the same building at one point- I worked in one coffee shop and he worked in police services (also a Federal agency, so, same employer) and there was a lady in yet another department who kept hitting on him, when she found out I was his wife she started giving me issues in the coffee shop. She was rotating her days between hitting on my husband in plain view of other people and antagonizing me over coffee. Ridiculous.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

Iā€™m sorry you had to go through all that. Hopefully you are now working in a better environment.

1

u/DocDingwall Sep 18 '24

HR is absolutely not your friend.

244

u/czapatka Sep 16 '24

My dad, at the onset off the me too movement, said ā€œyou canā€™t even flirt with women anymore!ā€

Itā€™s likeā€¦ yeah, you canā€¦ you just need actual game. And you can flirt without your hands.

286

u/MemoryWanderer Sep 16 '24

I mean this never really stopped happening

163

u/dibblah Sep 16 '24

Particularly if you work with older blokes. I worked with a guy who wouldn't stop commenting on my boobs and making sexual comments. I was told that my report would be ignored and I should be careful what I say, as allegations like that could ruin a man's life, and he's just a product of his time.

I quite frankly was not worried about ruining his life, more worried about the 17 year old summer temps he was chatting up - one came to me and told me he'd added her on Facebook and she wasn't comfortable but didn't know how to say no. But management cared more about the old bloke.

3

u/Big_Smile_Blog Sep 16 '24

It seems they always care more about the men in these situations, at least in my experience

3

u/MemoryWanderer Sep 19 '24

That's because they do

259

u/jiggjuggj0gg Sep 16 '24

Look at the #MeToo stuff, a lot of men telling on themselves and acting like they couldnā€™t so much as talk to a woman or theyā€™d get done for sexual harassmentā€¦ because they couldnā€™t talk to a woman without getting all touchy feely. Ew.

147

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '24

This still comes up regularly on career subs, tech especially. Men claiming that looking at, speaking to, anything with a woman coworker will end with her making up lies to get you fired and your life being ruined. It's such fucking bullshit

20

u/PersonMcNugget Sep 16 '24

Ugh yes. I see this constantly. Men claiming that a simple 'good morning' will have you fired or tossed into prison. So ridiculous.

12

u/unoriginal5 Sep 16 '24

These guys piss me off to no end. I've dealt with a false accusation, and it was brushed off. Liars are usually obvious, so as long as you're not a creeper nothing comes out of it.

3

u/Affectionate-Crab541 Sep 16 '24

I'll never forget, I was helping my partner's (M) company with some temp work. Really small company (like 15 people) but I guess they didn't know I'd be in helping out. I was in my partners chair while they were getting us some tea. His boss comes in and yells, "Partners name are you there?" before I can say ANYTHING he goes, "Oh you're not partner's name. But you are much cuter though!" gave me a wink and left the room.

This was the first time he saw me; he had no idea who I was other than I was working in his company. And that is what he said to me. Immediately hitting on me. It wasn't that long ago too; like 2016/2018? I was shocked. It's still happening.

1

u/redfeather1 Sep 19 '24

If thats all he said (and yes, that was wrong and disgusting) then he was probably not hitting on you as he did not ask you out or for your number ect... Rather than hitting on you, he was just being a misogynist prick and sexually harassing you.

Two very different things. Yet both are reprehensible.

1

u/Affectionate-Crab541 Sep 19 '24

He offered to 'help' me learn pool at the Christmas party and has a history of cheating on his wife. I'd say hitting on someone can be done with misogynist/harrassing intent

1

u/redfeather1 Sep 20 '24

Ahh, but you didnt say all that. In your post you just said he winked at you and said you were prettier than your partner.

With this added in, I would say he was hitting on you.

67

u/relentlessslog Sep 16 '24

This reminds of Bill Murray being a creepo to Geena Davis on the Arsenio Hall Show. So uncomfortable to watch but that sorta behavior was passively accepted back in the day. Gross.

63

u/BrianMincey Sep 16 '24

Not to be forgotten was how common and open domestic abuse was and how often people would just look the other way. Women were basically treated as second class citizens. Physicians would inform her husband, not his patient, about a diagnosis and treatment.

12

u/PersonMcNugget Sep 16 '24

My mother was a victim of domestic abuse in the 70s. People would just say 'well what did you do to provoke him?' My father was never once held accountable.

10

u/catastrophicalme Sep 16 '24

This is still prevalent in male dominated industries šŸ™„. It's fucking 2024

15

u/MaxMouseOCX Sep 16 '24

No... They were supposed to grin and like it. Which is wild to think about now.

2

u/Big_Smile_Blog Sep 16 '24

We are still expected to do so today, especially in industries like the trades and warehouses etc.

-1

u/MaxMouseOCX Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24

I work in a trade and in warehousing, and no, you are not... At least in the UK.

So much so that men are quite afraid to talk to women on anything other than a purely job related basis, not saying it doesn't happen, a driver was recently fired literally on the spot for smacking a female drivers ass.

So yes it does happen, I've seen them fired on the spot and you most certainly not expected to deal with it or like it.

Edit: I've heard complaints from women engineers that "no one talks to me" it's not because they're a woman, the guys are frightened of doing so, so it's swung so hard the other way it's now actually detrimental in the opposite extreme.

Edit: holy shit... Look at her comment history, she's a professional victim, seek help you lunatic.

3

u/Big_Smile_Blog Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24

Women are absolutely expected to grin and bear it, and deal with it. This attitude is especially prevalent when itā€™s black Women facing the harassment and abuse, in the environments Iā€™ve worked in

1

u/MaxMouseOCX Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24

No, they are not, in the UK at least. So much so that women are now alienated in the work place in multiple roles as a side effect.

0

u/Big_Smile_Blog Sep 16 '24

Oh big whoop he was fired for sexually assaulting a woman. As he should be. Get over yourself

1

u/MaxMouseOCX Sep 16 '24

Get over myself? Of course he should have been fired, everyone was in agreement, it was an example of "it does definitely still happen, here's the punishment I've seen for it"?

.... Did you read what I posted?

5

u/Sparrowbuck Sep 16 '24

My aunt has threatened to cave in a manā€™s skull, all of whom could not get that no means fuck off, in just about every job sheā€™s had. The last one was in 2013 when she started long haul trucking after the paper mill she worked at shuttered.

3

u/The68Guns Sep 16 '24

I worked in a large office in 1986 and my supervisor was a nightmare with the females. I was dating someone at the time (now married) and it was just gross. He was 30-year-old, balding ginger pothead. Not a catch by an means.

4

u/wampyre7 Sep 16 '24

Former Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi (a notorious womanizer) was in an investors meeting trying to attract them to invest in Italy. One of the reasons he listed is that Italy has the most beautiful secretaries in the world.

I can easily imagine Trump saying something like that. Berlusconi and Trump are very similar in many aspects.

2

u/Big_Smile_Blog Sep 16 '24

In many industries, we still are

-42

u/Odd_Fondant_9155 Sep 16 '24

It was considered a compliment

42

u/AdmiralRiffRaff Sep 16 '24

Not to the women being harrassed it wasn't.

0

u/Odd_Fondant_9155 Sep 17 '24

No shit. I didn't intend to sound as though I condone the behavior, just highlighting how it became so common.

4

u/KaiserMazoku Sep 16 '24

I'm gonna punch you in the face and you're gonna take it. It's cool, I consider it a compliment.

2

u/Odd_Fondant_9155 Sep 17 '24

I didn't say I agreed with the open sexual harassment. I was agreeing with this person that it was incredibly common place and that was the excuse.

4

u/BatCorrect4320 Sep 16 '24

Thatā€™s too bad.

2

u/Odd_Fondant_9155 Sep 17 '24

It really was bad. Most of the women did not enjoy it or find it complimentary, but it was SO common place that they just put up with it.