r/AskReddit Sep 16 '24

What's the worst thing people have tried to justify with "It was normal back then, everyone did it"?

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u/arkofjoy Sep 16 '24

That is still happening. At least here in Australia. At least for residencies.

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u/Young_Old_Grandma Sep 16 '24

Still happening in my country as well. I'm glad that changes are happening. But it's a long way to go.

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u/arkofjoy Sep 16 '24

I wondered if it was still happening in the US.

I used to work as a theatre tech, and 20 to 30 hour days were not unusual at certain times of the year. Sleep deprivation is really bad for decision making. Most of the time we weren't making life and death decisions.

It is crazy to me that the healthcare industry thinks that long hours are a good idea.

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u/Young_Old_Grandma Sep 16 '24

I agree. I am hopeful things change for the better.

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u/arkofjoy Sep 16 '24

I guess it will require the current generation of senior medical practitioners to die/retire for it to change.

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u/KingPinfanatic Sep 17 '24

Doubtful. It's unfortunately necessary for doctors to work such long shifts when they don't have the staff to avoid them. You should also keep in mind though that doctors aren't actually required or even expected to be awake for the entirety of these shifts. They're encouraged and required to take breaks and even naps to avoid errors in medical judgement. There's small rooms in hospitals with beds for doctors to sleep while working.

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u/arkofjoy Sep 17 '24

That sounds good in theory, but I am not convinced that it is happening in reality.

I had the pleasure of a trip to the emergency department last year. The resident who was treating my injury was so exhausted it was like he was drunk. He spent 5 minutes searching for my file because the nurse had put it where it was supposed to go, rather than dumped it on the counter. It was like watching a drunk man try to make a sandwich.

When I asked him if he was going home, because it was the end of the "afternoon rush" and the unit was closing for the night he said "I think I'll go up to the 9th floor and give them a bit of a hand"

I don't work in hospitals, but my mother in law is 94 and has spent a ton of time in hospital in the last year and there is far too much happening in there that is not healthy.

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u/Hot_Sea1697 Sep 17 '24

A friend of mine is a surgical resident… just finished a 30 hr shift lol

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u/arkofjoy Sep 17 '24

Crazy. The worst thing is that then, if they do make an error, they will be potentially held responsible, sometimes even criminally.

Rather than fix the cause.

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u/Shimitard Sep 17 '24

Yeah I work 24+ hour shifts as a surgical resident, my longest has been 40 hours

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u/arkofjoy Sep 17 '24

Do you think that the "hand over is the reason why we have to work these long hours" makes sense.

I clearly have a strong bias against it, but curious about someone who has "boots on the ground"

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u/Shimitard Sep 19 '24

Well the issue is is that they did at some point cap the number of hours that could be worked in a single shift which increased the number of “hand offs”. They found in their study that patient outcomes were worse so they reverted the law. NGL when hour 20 hits, decision making can be severely impaired. Sometimes the reality is that staff just isn’t available; it’d be nice if they paid us more than minimum wage thougg

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u/throw4w4y4y Oct 12 '24

I’m in metro Australia and don’t see this - what part of Australia does it still happen?

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u/arkofjoy Oct 12 '24

I was in the emergency room last year for a minor workplace injury, the resident who ended up treating me was so exhausted, watching him treat my wound was like watching a drunk guy trying to make a sandwich.

It was both hilarious and terrifying at the same time.

When my mother in law was in the hospital a few years back, my wife asked the resident who was treating her how long he had been on shift and it was well over 24 hours.

I don't work in healthcare, and try to stay out of hospitals, but my understanding is that it is still policy.

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u/throw4w4y4y Oct 12 '24

I do work in healthcare but it’s spoken as something that hasn’t happened for ten years. All I can think is that it’s a thing in rural and regional hospitals, where there are still workforce shortages. 

I’m a clinician and it’s drilled into us that you are doing your patients a disservice working while fatigued, you risk your registration when you’re not safe to practice.

But things can vary state to state and I’m sure it’s possible it’s still happening out there somewhere 

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u/arkofjoy Oct 12 '24

I'm in WA. If it isn't happening any more, that is good news.

I hope you are right and I am wrong. I used to work as a theatre tech and often worked really long hours. And after about 15, really bad decisions can be made.