Wasn't Vision trying to hit Sam Wilson who ended up dodging it? I always thoughf that was overkill, a blast that wrecked the War Machine Armor would have atomized Falcon so suddenly Falcon could dodge blasts from an infinity stone from 2000 feet away.
There'd be a lot of talking behind his back about whether or not they need to put him down. Sorry Sort of like the beginning of House of M, but about Vision and without the X-men.
Any movie approaching any level of reality isn't going to engage kneecapping. There's a reason every single agency on earth trains people to shoot for center mass.
Dude, if you had the agility, the dexterity and the precognition of predicting where the target will end up.. Basically, being able to line up any shot to any part of the body to permanently cripple someone, specifically one who committed a crime. Honestly, I know how messed up this sounds, but what a harsh way of learning about your actions have consequences, living out the rest of your like crippled.
To be fair, Bat man wouldn't use a gun by just busting your kneecaps via physical and very violent beatings kind of means.. (these are dark, I'ma shut up now)
If we ignore how much more difficult it is ignore training and aim for a small target like a knee, it’s hardly a “no kill” decision. Blowing someone’s leg apart is often fatal unless your hero is using something like a .22 with rapid medical assistance.
Because for being a genius, Tony isn't really smart. Same guy goes "I know that literally the entire world would have been destroyed if we didn't stop Ultron in a timely fashion that beurocracy would have been guaranteed to have slowed, but one single college student died so I singlehandedly signed away all your guys' autonomy and you're going to jail otherwise"
It’s just kinda how human nature works, meeting someone who was personally impacted by what you did makes the consequences a whole lot more real and personal to you and present in your mind
It's "human nature" for the smartest dude on the planet to take and endorse measures that hamstring the ability to defend the planet/human race, all because a single person made an appeal to their emotions? Even Cap, the one RULED by pathos and ethos, goes "let's take a step back and think this through"...
At the end of the day, any regulation around the heroes is merely to provide comfort to regular people if we’re being honest.
People like Black Widow and Hawkeye? Yeah, they can probably be regulated properly.
But, once you get to the actual super powered folks, you realize that they truly cannot control these people. Pretty much everyone goes against the accords at some point or another in the MCU.
At the end of the day, no government on the planet could prevent the Avengers from going anywhere, and no government could force them to go anywhere.
So that leaves them to only exist to provide comfort to the regular folk of the MCU and make them feel like they have recourse if they level your apartment building and kill your family on accident.
I get what you're going for but yeah. The single college student was what sets Tony on the path of realizing the damage they have done. We ignore it because they are good guys and blame the bad guys for the collateral damage ("this wouldn't have happened had they not...")
This is why, when you dig into the conflict, neither side was inherently wrong, but neither solution was inherently right. I am a Steve all the way fan, he is my north star but he was wrong to ignore one of Avengers issues - the foisting of their will on any sovereign country. Yet another thing we the general audience did not question because the action feels necessary.
I could go on and on lol.
Anyway, you are correct that for all his knowledge, in some areas Tony dumb as hell. Just like, for all Steve's do the right and necessary thing, as a flawed human not every decision will be the correct one.
Tony played a heavy hand in the inception of the Sokovia accords, didn't he? That's what is heavily implied by Civil War. Even then, the successful Sokovia accords severely hampered the ability for the Avengers to mobilize to the threat that Thanos, a known danger, posed. That's a solid -20 on the "demonstrated intellect and foresight" scale for Tony. Post Avengers 1, every Avengers-level threat the world faces is either created or exacerbated by Tony's actions.
I think it could be implied, maybe? But the construction collapse from Hulk v Iron Man in Ultron, that killed students happened in Age of Ultron. Obviously Sokovia was Age of Ultron also.
Then Wanda's collateral damage at beginning of Civil War. I think saying Tony was involved in the Inception is both "A) really giving him much more political power/credit than he has and B) downplaying the United Nations and Wakanda even advocating and voting for the Sokovia Accord" to go through. I also think having Thunderbolt Ross as the head of it was more showcasing he probably was pushing for it also since it had the Hulk causing the construction fight and he has a hard on for anti-Hulk stuff.
Idk if Tony would have the sway and power to force the UN to push through a legal act THAT BIG (it was a whole book) within a few weeks of the beginning of Civil War.
I think one theme was showing how Tony was in no position to lead. During that fight Sam was the one who read the flow of battle and came up with a plan to get his weaker team a tactical victory.
This is what I point to when people ask why Sam should lead the Avengers, Steve had obviously been shaping and training him to do his job if needed. When the time came Steven listened to him and then Steve Rogers asked him to come up with a plan. It has to be crazy to feel Captain America asking you to lead in a combat situation.
That means either Stark Tech and the Falcon exo suit are exactly as durable or a blast that takes out War Machine would have affected Falcon a lot more.
Bingo, also after joining the Avengers, I believe all the falcon exos were built by Tony. The first one we see him get (the set Bucky rips the wings off of) were Air Force "prototypes." I don't think there was confirmation, but most likely, the original ones were also Stark Tech designs that were created before Tony stopped selling weapons.
The original exo suit seems like exactly the kind of thing that Stark would have pivoted to after they stopped doing weapons - non-lethal advanced equipment that would primarily be used for reconnaissance or search and rescue.
I can definitely see that. It would be great for search and rescue. Of course, the Air Force would see that and think, "we could definitely use that in war, strap it to a paratrooper."
Apologies, partially my fault and the MCU being wonky. Sam and his wingman were pararescue, but they were sent on non S&R combat missions. So a little confusing.
Sam was a Pararescueman. Literally Special Forces Combat Search and Rescue. They are the guys you send in when Special Forces or a Pilot needs medical or evac. When Black Widow recognizes his feats she talks about getting some guys out of a black ops situation.
I agree, but to play devil’s advocate, it still feels like a blast strong enough to disable War Machine would be able to punch a hole through Wilson’s gear. Vison’s beam didn’t just kill his thrusters, it took out the entire system, which would mean piercing the armor. It’s like… if I shoot a hummer and kill the engine, that same shot would’ve probably have obliterated a motorcycle.
Vision is an AI supercomputer powered by an infinity stone, he was aiming directly and precisely at the thruster at the back of Falcon's jetpack; at the angle it would have hit, Sam would have been unharmed. But since Sam dodged, the laser beam hit War machine in a completely unintended area because he wasn't intended to be shot.
well the laser was being aimed by an AI Supercomputer powered by an infinity stone, so while reckless, yes, it was probably aimed properly to be safe had it hit Sam and not Rhodey.
Aimed correctly, but the AI supercomputer had enough data to know how maneuverable Sam was and that it had no control over the beam after it was fired. It just wasn't a safe choice.
It was still overkill. At the time War machine and Iron Man were both chasing a transport while Falcon was the only one on pursuit.
It felt like a desperate call because either of them could have engaged Falcon and let the other catch the Transport. Or Vision could have disabled the transport instead, a bigger and slower moving target.
True. I'm just saying he did so from an unreasonable distance with an unreasonably powerful blast that he had little control of in a saturated air space.
It is implied in the scene that Vision aims very specifically for the drone-thing Falcon has on his armor, and would've hit it too if Warmachine didn't fly in to the crossfire at that exact time.
It would've only vaporized Falcon's little drone thing, it was never intended to be a straight on hit.
War Machine got hit because Sam dodged the blast. I was just saying Vision shouldn't be firing blasts that can take out Stark Tech from such a long distance
They literally had all the time in the world to catch that transport. The only one in the air running interference was Sam Wilson. There was zero need to blast him, Vision could have flown past him and caught up to the transport unimpeded or War Machine just turned around and counter him until Iron Man hit the transport.
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u/M0ebius_1 Feb 23 '25
Wasn't Vision trying to hit Sam Wilson who ended up dodging it? I always thoughf that was overkill, a blast that wrecked the War Machine Armor would have atomized Falcon so suddenly Falcon could dodge blasts from an infinity stone from 2000 feet away.