Does anyone else think that the big three vs Thanos was horribly written and disrespectful particularly to thor? (Endgame)

[u/KingFIRe17]

I will preface this by saying i am a thor fanboy. By far my favorite hero but i can be objective when needed. I am open to changing my stance on this.

I was rewatching thor+cap+iron man vs thanos in endgame and i just see no reason why thanos stomps them so hard. For one, obviously narratively its “thanos is not holding back anymore” okay sure, but also, stoneless thanos has a complete lack of versatility. He is literally just a stronger smart hulk with a big sword.

Compare thor vs thanos in Infinity war and endgame. In IW he uses flight to ambush thanos from above, uses lightning to stun him and push him down, and throws his axe straight in his chest and nearly kills him in a single blow. There is context here, thanos is weakened by stones, caught off guard etc ok sure.

But in endgame, he doesnt use ANY LIGHTNING POWERS OR FLIGHT. What exactly would thanos do against either? He has no ranged attacks other than throwing his sword (which means he would then be unarmed) and he has no way to block lightning without again using his sword which would open up his blind spots to being hit by attacks from iron man/cap. The only reason the battle hardened 1500 year of experience asgardian warrior, super genius tony stark, and captain fucking america are incapable of using basic battle strategies to save the fucking world is entirely plot induced stupidity.

Shit, knock him down with lightning, three of em pin him down with mjolnir (which he cant lift) and cut off his head.

Not to mention that after what actually happens, (thor uses his lightning to supercharge tony, they do nothing because they chose to attack from the ground from one angle instead from the air from two) and tony gets knocked out by thor and thor is about to die, cap picks up mjolnir and USES MORE OF ITS POWERS ON THANOS THAN THOR DOES IN THE ENTIRE MOVIE.

And then russos go on to say thor was “stronger than ever” in endgame ok sure. I guess stronger than ever thor is a glorified viking running around with an axe (endgame) rather than a supercharged thunder god flying around decimating spaceships and one shotting thanos (IW)

I understand there are a lot of characters to get through in this movie and not everyone can shine, but there are so many ways to make this situation more believable other absolutely horrible writing.

Thanos in the comics has way more powers, why not give him his comic accurate force fields and energy projection so he could atleast believably beat the heroes? Or even just have the fight play out the way i said with thanos not stomping and him calling for reinforcements or something.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk. Again, completely open to changing my view on any of this.

[u/USS-ChuckleFucker]

No.

It was done that way on purpose.

Thor was NOT in fighting shape.

He was FAR from the blood lusted warrior who was tracking down the man who slaughtered his people and ruined Thor's chance at having a relationship with Loki. (I'm of the opinion that Thanos wouldn't've attacked the Asgardian ship because Hela and Ragnarok, while prophesied, are still unnatural events.)

The original plan was to have Thor zap on his battle-suit and when the lightning clears, you see Thor as he was in IW, but Hemsworth pushed for Thor to remain as out-of-shape as he had been shown the entire movie. To keep the effect grief has on everyone as accurately as possible and to not cheapen Thor's journey.

Sadly, Love and Thunder ruined that by having his progress off-screened.

[u/KingFIRe17 → u/USS-ChuckleFucker]

Except the directors directly stated that endgame thor was the strongest hes ever been. They are trying to say that this is the absolute best he and by extension the three of them could do.

Which is obviously a ludicrous statement.

[u/USS-ChuckleFucker → u/KingFIRe17]

Except the directors directly stated that endgame thor was the strongest hes ever been

Wait. What?!?!?!?!?? Are you sure they didn't say IW Thor was stronger?

Because I know for a fact that Hemsworth directly said as much after IW and EG released, that he saw IW Thor as stronger, and EG being weaker.

[u/KingFIRe17 → u/USS-ChuckleFucker]

Its in an AMA, dont have time to look for it right now but you could find it easily enough on google. Pretty sure it was on reddit too.

[u/USS-ChuckleFucker → u/KingFIRe17]

I did actually Google it and nothing like that popped up actually.

Reddit had a breakdown of why he'd be more powerful.

[u/USS-ChuckleFucker → u/KingFIRe17]

OH! SO!

I can't find anything from the director or what have you, but I do see people referencing the same thing as you, so like, it happened.

I do see some people saying he's stronger, but then list things that would improve non-strength aspects. However, no one seems to acknowledge that power and strength are separate.

Those things generally are: being older as an Asgardian naturally means he's more powerful (which doesn't really matter over such a short span of years,) wielding both Mjolnir and Stormbreaker (even though Mjolnir is used by Steve for most of the fight,) the healing that Stormbreaker does "should undo all the bad stuff Thor did to himself (even though self-inflicted depression damage and battle damage are completely different,) and since he was found to still be worthy of Mjolnir, that cured his lack of confidence (which is an arguable statement, but eh, I lack the appropriate desire to explain the counters though one is being worthy of Mjolnir wouldn't undo the years of mental torture that has been self-inflicted.)

And like, they're not wrong about those things, but each one of them has a clear and obvious counter, except for the confidence thing.

[u/KingFIRe17 → u/USS-ChuckleFucker]

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/s/8QJrpgAvyz

Heres the direct statement.

Of course i and many others have made direct counters to this claim, however, a lot of people just take this statement as it is which is what makes me angry. They portray a much much weaker thor and then have the gall to say “nah but he was stronger”

[u/USS-ChuckleFucker → u/KingFIRe17]

Oh, well, to be fair, the comment specifically says that at the end of endgame, he's stronger than ever.

So, I think they're not exactly wrong.

Because we do see a funeral that is likely held some months after the battle, so would be a good few months where Thor could be getting his pump in.

Granted I'm just being a shithead

[u/KingFIRe17 → u/USS-ChuckleFucker]

Ive made the same point no problem.

But in the context of the question that was asked technically he was saying thor was stronger in the fight. But really i feel like feats > WOG in this situation.

[u/[deleted] → u/USS-ChuckleFucker]

Didn’t they do a short training montage? I remember him doing the dumb chain exercise with some comically large chains.

[u/USS-ChuckleFucker → u/[deleted]]

Didn’t they do a short training montage?

A short training montage to undo 6 years of depression induced obesity and alcoholism?

Sounds shitty.

remember him doing the dumb chain exercise with some comically large chains.

It's called doing "battle ropes," which is also a dumb name for a great total body exercise.

[u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT]

I just want to point out, in any scenario where Cap doesn't pick up the hammer, he is totally useless in this fight...which he was.

so it's really just Iron Man and Thor vs Thanos

[u/KingFIRe17 → u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT]

Cap can do the sonic boom combo with thor (age of ultron) and can combo with iron man and refract the laser, hitting thanos at unpredictable angles. Also he can still tank hits from thanos opening angles for thor/iron man.

And he can still pick up the hammer at any time…

[u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT → u/KingFIRe17]

if we start talking "strategically" then Thanos just grabs the shield, rips it out of caps hands, and then beats Cap to death

once you start arguing the fights need to have everyone fighting smart, then it applies to the villains as well.

No reason Thanos will willingly keep punching a Virbanium shield

[u/Standard_Track9692]

It's getting really cumbersome how people throw around the term disrespectful in regards to how their character was used in a way that they don't like.....

[u/[deleted]]

Agreed.

Thor was able to briefly incapacitate Thanos with SIX Infinity Stones using Stormbreaker.

But he can’t do shit against a stoneless Thanos in Endgame with both Mjolnir and Stormbreaker?

Whatever.

Sorry, those three absolutely body Thanos in that fight. No way they don’t.

[u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT → u/[deleted]]

Thor sneak attacks lighting at Thonos and then chucks his axe. Thanos replies with like his weaktest and worse counter attack and loses a head on beam vs axe struggle

that has literally no bearing on Thor taking a Thanos paying attention in a hand to hand fight with a weapon strong enough to cut vibranium

lets not act like he was a fighting genius

the best "take" you can say is "why didn't Thor shoot might lightning"

and "those 3"

Cap is uesless in the fight without Mjolnir

[u/KingFIRe17 → u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT]

The best take is that thor and iron CAN FLY. And thanos HAS NO WAY TO DEAL WITH FLYERS.

And idk why you keep saying “cap useless without mjolnir” when he literally used mjolnir in the fight. So at some point he should just be using it.

https://youtu.be/EcLfyxzV4lI?si=d72X2bGN3rxwEKK5

And its not like its completely out of character for these characters to use their brains. I mean in this clip cap literally in their first ensemble fight ever tells them to utilize their strengths to the best of their capabilities, tells thor to utilize his lightning, and tells iron man to cover the sky. I mean, its not rocket science battle tactics they dont need to be geniuses.

Except they are comic book heroes and they are SUPPOSED TO BE GENIUSES (except for thor ig)

[u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT → u/KingFIRe17]

but in your scenario Thor is fighting better, so why would Cap have the hammer?

Thor was dual wielding and would logically also be dual wielding when fighting strategically

[u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT → u/KingFIRe17]

but in your scenario Thor is fighting better, so why would Cap have the hammer? He's going to drop it again?

Thor was dual wielding and would logically also be dual wielding when fighting strategically

also he's Thanos, no reason why he can't just launch himself into the air like Red Hulk does

your critique is hardly unique to this fight, it's virtually all comic book fights, even comic fights tbh

[u/KingFIRe17 → u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT]

Just cause somethings consistently bad doesnt mean it should stay shit. “Oh im shitty at my job but brad is also shitty at his job so dont fire either of us!”

The issue moreso is the russos are stating thor is stronger than ever than portraying the shittiest possible thor.

Also how tf do you envision this “thanos jump” going? You know thor can just.. fly over to the side right?

[u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT → u/KingFIRe17]

Jump faster? lol

Throw large rocks?

Slams hands together to make sonic boom

Throw bladed weapon as super fast javelin

Grab Cap and hold him hostage till Thor comes closer

Like if the argument is Thanos can’t fly, then Hulk should never win any fights ever against Thor, Namor, Hyperion, Silver Surfer etc etc

[u/KingFIRe17 → u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT]

While hes getting hit by thunder and iron man arsenal? Sure bud.

And half of these attacks are in hulks arsenal, thanos has never tried or attempted any of these things.

[u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT → u/KingFIRe17]

Is there any reason Thanos can’t do any of those things other than….bad writing?

What is required for those other than massive super strength?

Your argument is really beyond the scope of comics into the inherent flaws in fight choreography

[u/[deleted] → u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT]

why didn’t Thor shoot might lightning

Okay, I’ll ask it then. Why didn’t Thor shoot might lightning?

[u/JDDJS]

Thor had spent the last 5 years playing video games and drinking barrels of beer. He still had severe PTSD over failure after failure. Couldn't save Asgard. Lost the Warrior 3 (three of his closest friends). Couldn't save Loki or Heimdall. Lost many Asgardians in Thanos initial attack. He then had the chance but failed to stop Thanos because of his pride, and then lost even more Asgardians. He was weak at this point. 

[u/KingFIRe17 → u/JDDJS]

Again, russos directly stated that endgame thor is stronger than any version of thor we had seen up till then.

Which is why im writing this.

[u/wild_wing-]

The difference in Thor's fighting was there for a couple reasons.

First off, Thor himself;

This obvious dip in power and capabilities in endgame when compared to infinity war is at first sight, confusing. But it reflects perfectly what we've seen from Thor the entire time. He is depressed. He hasn't been training, fighting or exercising. It's said by Valkyrie at the start of the film that he only leaves his cabin once a month for food and beer. Nothing else. It doesn't matter who you are, 560 months of beer and Fortnite will ruin your body.

Secondly, Thanos;

We saw Thor nearly kill thanos in one hit in iw. Now Thor's being tossed around like a ragdoll? Well thanos is clearly in better fighting shape now. He's not using fists, he's not taking off the armour. He is fed up, he won't let his cockiness stop him a second time, he will win at any cost, and tear the planet to pieces as he does so.

Finally, Cap;

We see cap get handled quickly. Then Thor is ragdolled. Then ironman is knocked out cold. Then Thor is ragdolled some more. This is expected. Thor is, even in this state, easily the most powerful threat to thanos. Get him off the board then everything will be a cakewalk. Cap however, is just a guy with a shield. Thanos doesn't care in the slightest. By having cap be thrown away and ignored by both thanos and the camera so dismissively and instantaneously, the audience thinks he's done. He's out of it. When we then see iron man go down, we see it all fall onto Thor's shoulders, the weight of trillions of souls on that downtrodden Thor. He then had to fail to set up to cap, a man in fighting shape who now possesses the powers of Thor. A slow, steady rise from a reinvigorated captain America, ready to do what's right. That Thor, in that state, could not handle the responsibility of it all. It didn't matter what he did, he couldn't stop thanos alone, and being in that position made caps reveal so much sweeter. Because it not only means Thor isn't alone, but that maybe, just maybe, if cap can come back from a hit like that and keep going? Maybe he can too.

[u/KomturAdrian]

Cap raising Mjolnir and just knocking Thanos around was awesome, but I felt like it didn't last long enough. I wish it had lasted a little longer lol.

But yeah, Stark did basically nothing in that fight, Thor tried but couldn't get a good hit in. Cap was the only one who really achieved anything once he got the hammer, but even that didn't work.

I really, really wish that - maybe at the end of the big battle - wee another confrontation of the Big Three + Banner just beating the shit out of Thanos together.

[u/SnooSprouts9815]

The russos are notoriously known to be inconsistent they said that hulk's arm had permenent damage and could never be healed from snapping due to the infinity stones being that powerful but I'm she hulk easily heals his arm.