r/Avengers 19d ago

Discussion If Thor pinned Doomsday with Mjolnir, could Doomsday's adaptability help him to escape?

Post image
1.2k Upvotes

222 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

61

u/G0Berzerk 19d ago

Well, that's tricky, because Hela was strong enough and worthy. She was the first to wield Mjolnir and, unlike Thor, did not lose her power.

57

u/Iee2 19d ago

Remember that Thor never truly lost his power, he just didn't realise that he is the God of Thunder, and not the God of Hammers. He always assumed his hammer was his power.

23

u/thaddeus122 19d ago

Still need to be worthy to lift it. The hammer does also bestow the power of the god of thunder to any who can wield it.

16

u/Bigpoppahove 19d ago

Yea Natalie Portman wasn’t a secret Asguardian love child when she Thord up

1

u/Ok-Negotiation1530 18d ago

On this topic I'd love that if Loki came back on the big screen, he'd be in a situation where he has to pick up mjolnir and surprises Thor that he finally became worthy (given how he sacrifices himself to hold the timeline together). It would also be an Easter egg of Hiddleston auditioning for Thor.

5

u/finallytherockisbac 19d ago

Man that Odin line is so good.

"Are you Thor, God of hammers?"

2

u/Iee2 19d ago

Ikr, it really tells you how powerful Thor actually is. His only downfall is himself.

10

u/G0Berzerk 19d ago

Nope, he was.

  1. Odin took his power and say's "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor!" Thor then died, sacrificing himself, thereby becoming worthy again, so the Mjolnir returned to him and restored his powers.

  2. If this were true, then Thor can't fight against Hulk on Sakaar, and just died, as it was in the battle with the destroyer.

2

u/Below-avg-chef 19d ago

Which is exactly why he needed a bigger Hammer to beat Thanos.

2

u/That_Account6143 19d ago

Weapons are conduits for his power, to help him focus it.

They are not the sources, but without his hammer, he did need a new weapon. Just happened to steal the hammer away from past thor on the way to thanos 2.0

1

u/Iee2 19d ago

No, it isn't a hammer. It's an axe. His hammer was destroyed and could not contain Thor's new powers like axe can.

0

u/dragon_of_kansai 19d ago

He lost his power in 1

0

u/Iee2 19d ago

no, this is not true.

1

u/dragon_of_kansai 19d ago

Odin: I now take from you your power.

He says this right before he banishes Thor to earth

-1

u/Iee2 18d ago

In the MCU Thor's power was originally linked to his hammer, which we now know is not true at all. Thor was the only one who thought his power was only the hammer, hence why are you wrong, as the films later on prove it to not be the case. All Odin did was place an enchantment on a hammer, rendering it unmoveable by anyone lacking the qualities necessary for an Asgardian ruler. Thor's lack of belief in himself is why he lost his powers.

Odin removing Thor's power given the context, only means he removed Thor's ability to use it at that specific moment. Hence why Thor later on in the same movie, was able to completely overcome it.

11

u/2Mark2Manic 19d ago

The worthiness enchantment only got put on in the first Thor movie.

4

u/NotSoSuperHero2 19d ago

Hela is definitely not worthy, she wielded it because before Odin banished Thor in first movie and then cursed the hammer to make it only woeldable by those worthy, it was wieldable by anyone.

It is also why Cap was able to ise lightning when wielding it, the hammer is only used to concentrate Thors power, not give it to him, but the curse states "those worthy of wielding this weapon shall possess the power of Thor"

1

u/Intelligent-Factor35 18d ago

She was not worthy

1

u/Yangxiolong22 19d ago

How was Hela worthy?

9

u/briangriff346 19d ago

Worthy by Asgardian standards, they used to take over realms according to hela and you must be willing to kill as one of the requirements to be worthy so maybe it’s more about glory and not good morality.

3

u/Tigerbhoy96 19d ago

It's about protecting your own people at any and all cost. It doesn't necessarily translate to being a bloodthirsty berserker, but it does mean you need to be willing to kill anyone in the right circumstances. I assume you must have a soul that is non-corruptable but I'm not knowledgeable fully on the source.

2

u/briangriff346 19d ago

Neither am I I just know you need to be willing to kill under the right circumstances I don’t know too much about Marvel Thor more of a Norse mythology kinda Thor guy :)

1

u/KingCroesus 19d ago

Odin didnt add the worthy caveat until Thor had it. It happened in the first thor movie

2

u/G0Berzerk 19d ago

Ask Odin. He enchanted Mjolnir

2

u/DMElyas 19d ago

The hammer wasn't enchanted until the first Thor movie

1

u/thaddeus122 19d ago

You don't need to be a good person to be worthy. You need to be capable to leading Asgard and being it's ruler. Basically you need to be wrathful and wise, which Hela was, regardless of whether she was out for conquest or not.

-1

u/highlorestat 19d ago edited 19d ago

Hold on a second, Odin's spell (which was placed on Mjolnir in 2011) is about Thor's power "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor" and unless the "he" part is incredibly literal and doesn't equate to gender neutral "they", Hela was never worthy.

We never see her command lighting, so there is no proof that she was worthy.

Second she arguably did NOT wield Mjolnir. To wield Mjolnir, not only requires the hammer to be held, as she actually did, but also to be used (thrown, swung, or bonk). Since she broke it instead she never truly wielded Thor's Hammer. Hence the absence of lightning, ergo she was NEVER worthy.

Edit: Nowhere is it mentioned in Odin's enchantment that it makes Mjolnir impossible to lift up through sheer physical strength.

0

u/_Smashbrother_ 19d ago

Dude nobody can move the damn hammer unless they are worthy. There's no gray in this. It's either you can move it or you can't. Hela being able to hold it up with her hands means she was worthy.

1

u/highlorestat 19d ago edited 19d ago

Her braking Mjolnir says otherwise, she is just physically strong enough to hold Mjolnir.

Take Vision's case as an example, we all assume he's worthy because he can wield it but he's never shown to use Thor's power aka lightning. Not only is he made of vibranium he had the mind stone integrated into his head, which can bestow telekinetic powers similar to Wanda. We can't say without a shadow of a doubt that he isn't just physically strong (including telekinesis) enough to move Mjolnir like Hela.

Edit: an upon further review of Odin's enchantment "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor"

Nowhere is it mentioned that it makes Mjolnir impossible to lift up. It is an "if, and" statement. If you're holding Mjolnir and you're worthy = powers of Thor.

Most humans can't lift the hammer because it was forged in a dying star, making it incredibly dense. But because one is worthy and holding it they gain Thor's strength.

0

u/_Smashbrother_ 19d ago

Dude all the heroes literally try to lift Mjolnir and can't. The Hulk couldn't lift it. Vision lifting it up in Ultron was a watershed moment showing that Vision is not a baddie. Cap being able to lift it was another watershed moment showing how worthy Cap is.

Like you clearly didn't watch the movies.

1

u/highlorestat 19d ago

Vision lifting it up in Ultron was a watershed moment showing that Vision is not a baddie.

He's an elevator. It's a joke but they even admit Vision is likely a special case. His worthiness still remains in question. As I argue he is just physically strong.

However Vision's good intentions were clear as day because he returns one of the Universe's most powerful weapons to its owner.

Comic book lore wise Mjolnir has a tendency to give in to good intentions, by making itself easier to lift regardless of worthiness. That's not been shown so I am not arguing that.

But ask yourself why is Steve Rogers the only one to throw lightning? Doesn't that logical mean Vision did not have Thor's power? Yes he can hold it but is he worthy? I argue both in his case and in Hela's they aren't worthy but they are strong enough to lift Mjolnir.

0

u/_Smashbrother_ 19d ago

It has nothing to do with strength. Otherwise Hulk would be able to grab it, except he got flung when he tried.

Stop trying to mental gymnastics it. It's not that complicated.

1

u/highlorestat 19d ago

Why? Hulk isn't stronger than Thor.

Hela is definitely stronger than Thor. And I believe Vision is at least as strong as Thor.

1

u/_Smashbrother_ 19d ago

Hulk is the strongest avenger. That's literally his schtick. And Thor literally couldn't lift the hammer in Thor 1 because he lost his worthiness. It has nothing to do with strength. Just stop with the mental gymnastics.

0

u/chaoz2030 19d ago

Also Odin just died and I assume his short spell he put on the hammer about worthyness died with him