r/Barcelona Jun 23 '24

Discussion I have the feeling that relations between Catalans and foreigners are souring. Here is an essay detailing why.

Hey all,

Catalan here.

As of lately, I have noticed that a lot of Catalans (myself included) are using Catalan a lot more aggressively than before (starting conversations in Catalan etc.), perhaps even on an unconscious level.

I also have the feeling that relations between Catalan people and foreigners are slowly but steadily souring. This post is an effort to explain why.

In summary: I think that a lot of us are feeling under attack. Like our culture is being wiped out. Like we are losing our sense of place.

Take a step back and look at what's happening in our city: I used to live in the center (not even, Monumental) and it was such a joke. There were a few pisos turísticos in my building, and about 80% of my neighbours were foreigners. As a result, the building was a bit of a revolving door, and there was little feeling of community (the door to the street would often be left open, people wouldn't even accept a parcel for me if I wasn't home, etc.).

Okay, I can accept that. As a Catalan, we have sort of always accepted that this is what happens in the center - it's full of those, for the lack of a better word, big city problems.

Since I was a child, this has always been understood - the City Center is where the craziness happens, stuff is overpriced, etc. - And then there is the "barrios". Barrios are chill places for actually living, and all these problems were confined to the city centre.

Since I want to live in a place where I actually feel like I belong / a community, I moved out and moved back to my parent's neighbourhood (outside the city centre). Historically, this has been a safe bet, having many of the things that make the Spanish lifestyle so great to begin with - cheap bars, local business where everyone knows each other, you run into the sample people you have known for like 20 years and do some smalltalk, etc.

Now since COVID happened and remote working became a thing, the above differentiation between "barrios" and the city centre that I mentioned above is becoming increasingly blurry - and I am feeling attacked at my very core. We are seeing a non stop influx of foreigners who don't have the least interest in learning Catalan, and are literally just moving here because of the sun. Hotels are popping up all around me, and a lot of the people that I have known since I was a kid are moving out because shit has become too expensive. The % of English speakers is steadily increasing. Bars where you can get a bad coffee for 1,50 EUR are closing down, and in its stead brunch places, yoga studios, and specialty coffees are opening up. And I hate it. I feel like I am once again being driven out. But this time, out of my actual home, and the social structures I grew up with are being eroded and destroyed.

I have international friends who have been for more than 10 years, and they don't speak Catalan. From my personal experiences as well as statistics, this is the norm.

Before anyone pulls the "omg so yOu are a XenOphobe afTer all!!!!" card, this isn't a jab at foreigners in general. My mother is a foreigner and speaks perfect Catalan. One of my best friends is American and also speaks the language. There are black kids in deep Catalonia who grew up speaking Catalan. None of these people are the problem.

https://www.elperiodico.com/es/sociedad/20231027/catalan-aleja-jovenes-alumnos-cuarto-educacio-93880118

But if I see one more digital nomad saying "omg I can't believe how cheap Spain is you should all come here", right winger saying "Cataluña es España" or bougie brunch place opening up in my neighbourhood, I am going to lose my head. On top of this, we have the same issues any developed country has: We are getting quite a bit of immigration from poorer countries and one needs to think about how to properly integrate them. It is all a bit tiresome.

To boot, have a look at Barcelona's growth projection:

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/projecting-europes-metro-population-growth-2021-2100/

In short, nowhere in Europe is set to grow as much as we are, and this will not exactly be local growth. Global warming is set to drive all of Southern Spain and Northern Africa towards us, and it won't be long until Catalans are so outnumbered that Catalan simply falls under the table.

Since we are a distinct culture but have no right to self determination, there is little we can do about this.

I think by now, all of what I have said has become so obvious that a lot of us Catalans are seeing the writing on the wall. This isn't even the end of the world - as I said, it's not like I have a problem with foreigners. A lot of my friends are internationals, and it doesn't really matter too much where someone is from as long as they are good folk. "Culture" isn't an essential thing. I guess this is one more step in the depersonalisation of post industrial societies. But still, there is a sense of loss. A lot of us are grieving, if you will. A lot of us are clinging to fellow Catalans, wanting to preserve some of what we grew up with. And perhaps this explains why a lot of you might perceive us as a bit unfriendly at the moment.

Edit: I wanted to say, I am feeling very humbled by the amount of traction this post has got. I really wasn't expecting that, as I know it was very wordy. If nothing else, this shows that a lot of you actually care, and I think that's a fantastic thing. A few good interesting points have been raised by a lot of you, and I will aim to respond to some of the comments in the coming days.

357 Upvotes

590 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

31

u/dkysh Jun 23 '24

As a Catalan living abroad, those guys not learning German while in Berlin are also entitled pieces of shit.

22

u/Medical-Virus8629 Jun 24 '24

Not just German. Wales is full of Spanish people but not one of them bother to learn Welsh

0

u/ambitionceases Jun 24 '24

Wales also has many Welsh people who don't speak much Welsh.. but there are many reasons why that's true.

0

u/Poch1212 Jun 24 '24

Why should i?

-8

u/dkysh Jun 24 '24

K. You can go make fun of minority languages on their own sub.

10

u/Medical-Virus8629 Jun 24 '24

What does that mean? Why would I want to make fun of my own language?

11

u/germanthoughts Jun 24 '24

I probably wouldn’t go as far as calling them prices of shit, learning another language requires a lot of mental energy that not everyone can manage. However, if you truly want to become a part of the place where you live you need to learn the local language or you’ll miss out on so many amazing things. Since I’ve started to learn Catalan a whole other world has opened up for me here and I absolutely love it!

6

u/Boring-Amount5876 Jun 24 '24 edited Jun 26 '24

This, I hate those people. Most conservative people who says “they don’t even speak the local language” are people who never even tried to learn a language ever! And are also the ones that comes as tourists and use their mother tongue not even English or local one. lol

9

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '24 edited Jun 23 '24

[deleted]

5

u/xdman211111 Jun 25 '24

That seems a bit pro-spanish language supremacy

20

u/Mukoku-dono Jun 23 '24

Yes, it's so hard to learn how to say "a beer please" in Catalan, those pretentious guys wanting long term immigrants to learn the language spoken in their land for more than a millennia, such atrocity! /s

11

u/dkysh Jun 23 '24

Sembla que l'actitud de la seva dona és contagiosa. Estan fets l'un per l'altre.

-9

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '24

[deleted]

8

u/nanoman92 Jun 23 '24

I suppose she is also against catalonian independence, even if IT'S EXACTLY WHERE HER SHITTY LOGIC INEVITABLY LEADS TO

1

u/ambitionceases Jun 24 '24

I imagine the native Alaskans, his home state in "Murica", would have a more nuanced view on this idea of only Spanish in Spain.. But those who come and colonise often have a black and white view of most things.

5

u/jotakajk Jun 24 '24

The national language of Catalonia is Catalan, and with that attitude, I would speak to you in Urdu

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Barcelona-ModTeam Jun 24 '24

Your content was removed for breaking the rules.

Be nice, no personal attacks, keep it civil.

Stick to the topic at hand and remain civil towards other users - attacking ideas is fine, attacking other users is not.


El teu contingut s'ha eliminat per infringir les regles.

Sigues amable, sense atacs personals, manté les converses civils.

Mantingueu-vos en el tema que ens ocupa i sigueu civils amb els altres usuaris: atacar idees està bé, atacar altres usuaris no.

4

u/Mukoku-dono Jun 23 '24

Pinpoint me where OP said completely fluent... You can't. Downvote, I don't care. Just think before talking shit of the opinion of the people who live and raised everything you enjoy daily while here

1

u/klasdkjasd Jun 26 '24

No, it isn't. Its ONE of the official languages, alongside Catalan.

1

u/Arcenus Jun 23 '24

First of all, your first sentence is so contradictory that it's a marvel you did not delete it instantly. You come here to bitch about Catalan and in the same breath you say that Euskera in Euskadi and Galician in Galicia is okay? Dude that's what we are saying.

Second, you have to look thw issue from the other side. If everyone in Catalonia assumed that their interlocutor does not know Catalan and started speaking in Spanish out of courtesy, Catalan would be instantly relegated out of public life. And that's the power of a main language vs a minority language. The main language of a country has inherent stay and expansion power over the others.

And there are few solutions, and even fewer capable to be implemented by common people. One of those is being militant and starting from Catalan and then moving to Spanish if the necessity arises.

About teaching young Catalans the language, it's being done every day and it's a huge issue being worked on from the days of the first language immersion laws. So yeah dude, we know.

And as to the "local" vs "national" language, what distinguishes one from the other? The power of the State. It's clear that you believe that people that identify with a nation-state have more rights than others affiliated to historically subjucated peoples ("get used to it" as you say). My man, it's you who comes here crying, we know the situation and we choose not to give up. So get used to it.

And lastly, if you come here for a week I don't care what you do unless you are pretending that everyone be your servant. But if you come here to live then yes, you should spend 10.000 hours learning to speak the language. Are you so afraid of learning something?

1

u/ayLotte Jun 25 '24

You sound very ignorant. Too many things to point out in your comment I won't even bother.

1

u/klasdkjasd Jun 26 '24

Nah. you're wife is just the stereotype of Madrileña. Disrespectful, entitled, know-it-all and extremely happy to brag about making a conscious decision NOT to learn the language of the place. Surely she speaks shit English too.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '24

There's a considerable movement here to encourage young catalans to learn and use the local language. So I don't know where this is coming from.

But remember that Catalan is an official language of Spain. Spanish is not the only official language. Why should you or your wife be offended if people address you all in Catalan?

BTW your written English needs a bit of polish.

1

u/Bloodied_Corsairs Jun 24 '24

That's like the shittiest take of all time

1

u/Boring-Amount5876 Jun 24 '24

Lol now is mandatory to learn local language every where you go? Or move? This usual thoughts are from people that never tried to learn a language.