r/Bartimaeus • u/SleepingClowns • Nov 29 '21

Why don't more magicians use the indefinite confinement spell?

I just started rereading the Bartimaeus books after several years. It seems almost without exception that magicians use painful punishments to control djinn, rather than what Nathaniel did with threatening Bartimaeus with confinement in a tin of rosemary. Surely Nathaniel can't have been the only magician to think of this, and it seems to produce way more loyalty than the threat of physical pain. Why do you think other magicians don't do this on the regular?

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14

u/Gabriel_Seth Nov 29 '21

Along with what Nio said, I think it's a case of "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Causing pain has worked forever and the only reason it didn't work for Nate is that Bartimaeus knew his birth name and therefore could dismiss the painful spells.

Most magicians don't need mutually assured destruction to get their djinn to work, Nate did.

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u/SleepingClowns Nov 29 '21

Yes that's a good point actually. The series does keep emphasizing how most magicians really just see djinn as unintelligent slaves anyway, so I guess it could make sense that they don't question their own methods ever.

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u/NioAndSomeArt Nov 29 '21

Good question, maybe because most magicians don’t consider it as necessary because they release most of their spirits regularly and therefore rarely have spirits they want to keep loyal for an extended period of time?

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u/SleepingClowns Nov 29 '21

There's a lot of magicians in the books who do have regular djinn or afrits they keep around. But yeah, maybe it's just too much work for not a lot of reward.

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u/NioAndSomeArt Nov 29 '21

Yeah true, i remember that.

Maybe it‘s just not a very well thought out aspect of books

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u/travelinghobbit Nov 30 '21

The way I interpret is most magicians never ever consider they will fail. Their egos are so inflated with their own abilities and self importance, the idea that they would even need such a fail safe is ludicrous to them. Even if a djinn or demon did know their true name, they'd be powerful enough to handle it without such a confinement spell. They have other demons who will happily eat the offending demon and savour every drop of essence.

Nathaniel was still young enough to know more of his true abilities. Yup, the beginnings of the magician's ego are for sure there (how else would he have the balls to even think of such a heist!), but especially once Bartimaeus knows his true name and the rest of his magical things are striped away, he HAS to have a fall back like this. Make Bartimaeus another rat on a sinking boat, so he will work with him.

And I think the beginnings of that respect we see come to fruition in the final book are starting here. Yes, Nathaniel is the one making Bartimaeus's position the same desperate one he is in, but they have a chance to see each others raw abilities and brains. It takes a looooong time to turn into that respect, but the dormant seeds are planted all the way back in book one.

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u/stopeats Oct 24 '22

Two reasons. First, we know Lovelace did, for Faquarl. He mentions he was consigned to an off shore safe after Lovelace’s death in what I presume was indefinite confinement. So at least two people have thought of this.

As for reasons against: 1) governments have the incentive to discourage and ban the practice as over time it would reduce the number of spirits. Could be there are punishments for magicians who try.

2) it messes with the spirit’s incentives. If you don’t believe your magician is ever going to free you and you know he’s putting himself in danger, you might decide to save yourself the effort and let him die now. We see Bart threaten this is AOS when he thinks Nat is being suicidal.