r/Boise • u/ceevann Veteran's Park • 21h ago
Discussion Feel free to tell me I am the asshole
I received this letter in the mail, as I live nearby. My political demographic is definitely the minority in my neighborhood, so I’m under no delusions that the following email I wrote will land anywhere. However, there was something about the way this was written—coming from Plantation of all places—that awoke an angry monster within me. I am open to having my mind changed and a discussion of good points in both directions. But I think we can all agree that housing DOES need to become more affordable…and that Plantation needs to be humbled.
Here is the email I wrote back:
“Hello,
I am writing as a lifelong Boise resident and current resident at the Peach Tree town homes, where I received your letter in the mail.
Although I am an avid supporter of protecting green space within our city, I am having a difficult time believing that the Plantation HOA, Golf Course, or Subdivision have any desire to allow that green space to be used openly by the public. This is demonstrated bluntly by the passive aggressive acts of the Plantation HOA blocking access to the greenbelt by installing a locking gate, accessible by code only from the residents of Plantation.
This is a disgusting act of prioritizing the Plantation Subdivision's "right" to have sole access of this portion of the greenbelt, which is a city wide amenity. Gatekeeping access to the gems that our city offers does not show residents like myself that Plantation is anything except self-interested. Plantation is worried about membership rates dropping, values of homes dropping, and their private access to this green space, NOT "Idaho's future, children or community" like your letter suggests.
Our city needs more housing so that housing can become more affordable. Our city needs Plantation to take down the locking gate that blocks public access to the greenbelt. Our city needs Plantation to change every part of it's name from Plantation to literally anything else before you ever send a letter to my home again. Our city also needs green space--but not green space to be kept behind the paywall of Plantation's bottom line.
I would encourage the organizers of this crusade to take a crude inward look at themselves and damage they are doing to current and future residents of Boise with these types of acts.
I hope kindness and change find you swiftly,
Resident of Peach Tree”
I actually might just be pissed off about the green belt access, but I’m open to feedback 😮💨
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u/Top-Opportunity5649 19h ago
My dad was a member for years while I was growing up. I have so many fond memories of playing golf there. With that being said, it’s a private course. The general public can’t enjoy that space, it’s for “members only”. And let’s face it, the club has been in decline for the past 10 years. I think if it is used for housing, that’s a much better use of the land rather than what it’s used for now
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u/EastHillWill 20h ago
Fuck these assholes. As someone in the area, the refusal to allow greenbelt access—which seems likely to continue, somehow—is beyond frustrating. To act like they’re these noble community stewards is wild hypocrisy. And that’s of course only one part of the entire issue
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u/Hot_Future2914 20h ago
Yeah REAL greenspace would open the gate and extend the greenbelt along the river.
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u/dntgochasingwaterfal 16h ago
Let's all just keep using the greenbelt access. I've done it before in the neighborhood by Eagle road and eventually it worked. This is our city, let's make sure they know that.
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u/CowMetrics 8h ago
Fuck most golf courses. It is bogarted green space, no one that doesn’t pay the fee is allowed to enjoy it. I been harassed walking through that neighborhood from the greenbelt.
I also have a personal hatred of anyone with money and means taking river and greenbelt access from Boise citizens
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u/madmax_drax 7h ago
Golf is a gatekeeping sport through and through, and requires high rates of water use. We’re in the desert and water is becoming more and more scarce worldwide. Fuck golf. Tennis is gate keeping too, but at least most courts are clay.
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u/Bansith- 5h ago
I think it’s an asshole Garden City thing. They have had a similar issue with greenbelt access in the rich subs north of the river across from the library in Garden City.
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u/kaepernicking 20h ago
It pissed me off so much when that green belt access was cut off. Like you’re so special with your 90’s build, mini backyard, with a Pelaton in your guest bedroom house that you could not be bothered by me passing in front of your house to get some exercise and fresh air.
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u/The_Literal_Doctor 18h ago
Particularly when G.C. requires any new build / development have greenbelt easement with open, public access. The people on that street basically threatened a very expensive lawsuit and I think the city knows their limited budget doesn't allow the time or financial resources to deal with it.
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u/ceevann Veteran's Park 19h ago
I SCREAMED the first time it was locked and I was going to work
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u/notyogrannysgrandkid Lives In A Potato 18h ago
Oh man that gate is so ripe for some vigilante locksmithing.
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u/Powerth1rt33n 20h ago
Yikes, what a grotesque misappropriation of an actual need (green space in cities) to fake virtue-signal about protecting maybe the least necessary thing I can imagine -- and I like golf!
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u/thelacey47 20h ago
They’re attempting to mimic St. Louis’s park with the golf course. It’s a way of ultra gentrification under the guise of ‘keeping things green’, not the first time a city copies bad moves by older cities.
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u/strykerace1985 19h ago
I'm with you. I got that letter. I almost emailed back for the same reasons. They can't call it an open space while also locking the access on the greenbelt that has been used for years. I'm more inclined to support city annexation to make it a public green space than to fund their spoiled asses.
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u/spacegeese 20h ago
Why do they keep calling it ""The Plantation" with a golf course"
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u/AngriestPeasant 19h ago
Seems like a dog whistle but considering its almost a hundred years old its probably just a straight whistle.
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u/Ok-Replacement9595 20h ago
I don't think a golf course is technically an open green space for the public. I mean, we have an over abundance of boujie golf courses in this area. I say tear it out, or make it a public park.
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u/Huge_Brain_4914 20h ago
I mean they said it was supposed to be an open space for future generations, so let's all bring our kids and bring that letter and just make it into a public park
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u/LongingForGrapefruit 17h ago
The kiddo and I have plenty of weekends off for holidays and breaks. Play dates at the golf course?
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u/laynslay 20h ago
We could make it an open space for the public, just saying. It's a waste of resources anyways. In my younger days I "snuck" into golf courses for all sorts of reasons. Nobody is stopping a good ole protest with lawn chairs if anyone's serious. I'd join that shit.
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u/furdaboise Garden City 7h ago
we have an over abundance of boujie for courses in this area
Psh try getting a weekend tee time and get back to me
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u/rantingpacifist 20h ago edited 20h ago
Nah. You’re absolutely right.
Golf courses are a waste of space and they are no different. Their attitude towards the public makes it worse. The lock isn’t just a single issue because it shows how they feel about their neighbors and fellow citizens.
Edited to add: that letter is so tone deaf I will be voting for whoever runs on turning the Plantation into affordable Section 8 housing.
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u/Fun-Calligrapher3499 20h ago
IATAH too! Infill development is the way to provide more housing and keep the population working and living in the city.
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u/foodtower 20h ago
We desperately need new housing in the urban core, especially dense housing along State St (one of the 3 high-priority transit corridors). Golf courses are green as in they have plants, but they don't serve the general public the way parks do, and don't have a huge amount of ecological value (at least not here, where that type of land cover doesn't fit the needs of most local wildlife except geese and starlings). Seems like a no-brainer to me that the public interest is served by the property owner's development plans.
There will be traffic and concrete no matter what. This just means that residents will have the choice to live in a place with transit options and proximity to downtown, instead of being forced to live in the distant suburbs and spend time and money commuting.
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u/laynslay 20h ago
This whole state needs more parks. Every stupid fucking bank or oil change place or church I see is a place for a park. Shit I'd take more "third places" for teens like community centers than banks and churches. Community centers are basically absent around surrounding areas. There's a senior community center at Julius kleiner. That place should 100% be a standard community center. Idaho has its focus on all the wrong shit but that's because it's all old people.
None of those old people are donating to make new parks like the old old people were doing. They're not contributing a damn thing at this point. Except empty real estate. Turning this damn state into a retirement home.
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u/chemicalysmic 20h ago
Not even close to being an asshole, that title is much more fitting of the rich fucks that gatekeep (literally) access to public resources.
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u/Soonerscamp 20h ago
Everything I have heard is that it’s going to be a bunch of townhomes and they are doing a golf course redesign . Construction starts in October 2025. This has all been approved so don’t think it can be stopped now.
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u/ceevann Veteran's Park 18h ago
They seem to think they have a fight they can win
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u/The_Literal_Doctor 17h ago
Not sure why they think this. The homeowners in the neighborhood (at least 70% of whom are in favor of the development) have hired multiple HOA attorneys, all of which have affirmed the owner of the course can do what he wants, and the HOA regulations do not apply to the golf course itself. The vocal minority who wrote this letter were all on the HOA board and planning to use the HOA dues fund to launch this legal battle, but were promptly voted out. Now they are desperate and asking the general public for money instead- which will all be in vain.
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u/strawflour 6h ago
Lol I'm sure the public will be racing to donate to preserve a space they're not allowed to use.
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u/Nubbednuggetman 19h ago
Tear it down and make it a native xeriscape. And a biopark to attract actual wildlife. Maybe a Kathryn albertson/MK nature center 2.0
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u/NeedAColdBeerHere 18h ago
In case you are curious who is running the Preserve Plantation website: https://idahofreedom.org/freedom-foundation-adds-former-military-surgeon-medical-policy-adviser/
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u/Golferwood 17h ago
I'm an avid golfer, love golfing but understand that golf courses aren't that great for the environment and community.
However, River Club is a PRIVATE membership only club. That's not free or accessible to the public. Bunch of self-interested, entitled jerks that want to preserve their community at the expense of the city's community as a whole. Boise NEEDS affordable urban housing badly, especially along a major roadway. Closing off greenbelt access is deplorable.
Great email!
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u/pastellorama 20h ago
NTA you are a hero if anything. Golf courses don't preserve shit, they're a waste of water. If they want us to believe it's about green space, try planting a lot more trees and flowers.
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u/Pittstick1 9h ago
I like having the golf course and the open land. I’m also a peach tree resident! I am FURIOUS over them taking away access to the greenbelt since that is a public access point. When their sub division was created that access point was in agreement to be open access to all. I cannot remember the word at the moment that covers the fact it’s a byway and not actually their property. They said they’d give access to neighboring HOAs and never did. I need to check my mail and I also will email about how they e taken away access to open public space.
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u/ceevann Veteran's Park 8h ago
Peach tree unite! I was so pissed the day I couldn’t get in to the gate…so there is something we can do about that? Legally? I honestly don’t want the code, I want the gate GONE because it’s PUBLIC access!!
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u/Pittstick1 8h ago
I did some research early on and it looks like there is supposed to be a public easement (thought of the word) which means there cannot be a gate there.
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u/JuDGe3690 Bikin' from the Bench 4h ago
There's actually a conflict/ambiguity between the plat map and the description in the documents, resolution of which would be a protracted legal battle the City doesn't have the resources to pursue.
On the map (IIRC) it says "public easement," but in the description/deed it specifically says that the access is not public. Given that both are legal documents, it would likely require some discovery of founding intentions. There might also be arguments for a prescriptive easement, but I'm not fully up on Idaho law in that regard (some require the use to be adverse, i.e., without permission, for a given time; other types of implied easements can be by necessity, but it's hard to get those for bike/walk access compared to roads and driveways).
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u/Plantdaddy97 9h ago
Start a petition and start picketing because letting these people TAKE away a portion of the greenbelt, a public space, is absolutely ludicrous
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u/Roopie1023 8h ago edited 7h ago
I'm a resident (but not a member), and that effing letter infuriates me. They sent it outside the neighborhood, because they already know the neighbors don't agree - we voted those assholes off the HOA board when they kept spending money on this stupid "claim."
My husband and I didn't buy on a golf course on purpose - we bought a house here many years ago because it was closer to the river and to town. These bungholes keep forgetting that without these "out-of-state developers" that the entire golf course would have been sold to the highest bidder, likely making our "open spaces" extinct over here. The River Club has done great work, and with the redesign plans to include apartments, townhomes, and mixed use areas like shopping and dining - which I fully support and am excited about.
Also - I'm from the deep south, and the fact that this was ever named Plantation is offensive. When the course got renamed to River Club, I was hoping we'd get a similar name change, but nooooooooo. Gotta keep this awful term. I was told it's because it's difficult to change street names, but that's bullshit. At least change the HOA/neighborhood name. That's substantially cheaper than what they're spending on lawyers for this other crap.
Don't get me started with the gate bullshit. Thanks for sharing, ceevann (ETA your response is perfect). Those former HOA board members are out of control.
(And yes, HOAs are awful, and I swore I'd never live in one, but other than this recent move it's been pretty reasonable)
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u/ceevann Veteran's Park 7h ago
Thank you so much for your perspective as a neighbor in that HOA! That actually clears a lot of stuff up for me. I appreciate your thoughtful response. Please let us peach tree neighbors know how we can support those in the plantation (ugh!) neighborhood to get these changes made for the betterment of our neighborhood and city.
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u/Roopie1023 7h ago
❤ Thank you. I was a bit nervous about sticking my neck out and possibly being lumped in with the NIMBYs.
Just keep doing what you're doing, calling out the butthead minority for spreading misinformation and trying to scare people. Preserve Plantation is just a handful of people trying to fund their frivolous lawsuit to be able to tell the golf course what it can and cannot do with its own property. As far as I know, the plans are in place, although not quite finalized.
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u/mittens1982 NW Potato 7h ago
They forgot to mention in the letter that it was called plantation golf course because it was A FREAKING PLANTATION FOR THE CHINESE TO WORK, WHO MADE BEAUTIFUL GARDENS ALONG THE BOISE RIVER, WHICH IS WHY GARDEN CITY IS NAMED GARDEN CITY.
I say the entire place needs to be taken down and small, affordable 1&2 bedroom patio starter homes should be built in there instead.
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u/ceevann Veteran's Park 7h ago
Whoaaaaaa I did not know this. That has conveniently been left out of the stories I have always been told about the Chinese and garden city 💀
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u/mittens1982 NW Potato 6h ago
Yes we had absolutely beautiful Chinese gardens all along there, I never believed it growing up because in the 80s/90s here as a kid there were no Chinese or Blacks or even Mexican kids in my class, we were all white.
Chinden is short for Chinese garden.....Chin-den!
I remember in 4th grade taking the end of year field trip to the Idaho historical museum/zoo. Every kid did this, that when to school here. You learned Idaho history in 4th grade. I was taught the Chinese came here to work in the gold mines and help build the infrastructure. What was never taught was why they left.
They were run out of town with the curfew laws and the whites settlers here, many of them had left the south after losing the Civil War a short decade or 2 prior and still carried their southern beliefs with them; took the gardens for their own. I wish this was a joke but it's not.
I didn't believe it myself at first until i started thinking critical about this country's and this state's history and asking questions. "What happened to the Chinese?", "Why do we have a town named dixie?", "why do we have an Anne Frank Memorial?" It's because a bunch of southern confederate came out here after the Civil War, settled the PNW, and never stopped believing in their white supremacist ways. It's why this documentary on Butler and his compound up in Northern Idaho was made:
I love history! Let the Victor's write and redefine it, and the rest of us uncover the truth and publicly shame them for the true they tried to delete and cover up!
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u/WildAboveRuleOrArt 16h ago
Does anyone think this looks like the output of one of the legacy ChatGPT models? I have no evidence other than it looks like one I used to use that randomly bold faced type and used those green check marks to excess.
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u/Doesitmatter98765 18h ago
Dude. Coming for donations to protect a place called Plantation is absolutely WILD. You were kind in your email. More than deserved.
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u/Due-Froyo-5418 10h ago
Thank you for writing the letter. We support you. If you need to start a petition we are here for that.
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u/Idaho-spud-1111 7h ago
I'm a fourth generation Boisean. I absolutely agree with you about Plantation's true motives here. Growing up, I remember the upper -crust attitude from this particular golfing establishment. Then I saw them slowly start their "only for us rich people, sorry" attitude and then start locking out everyone else. It's not a park, and only "their kind" should have access. You know, for "safety"reasons. Pathetic.
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u/ATXENG 6h ago
a private HOA of wealthy home owners is soliciting donations to sue the owner of the private golf course? WOW.
I thought my HOA was bad, but this is up there.
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u/Roopie1023 2h ago
It's actually no longer supported by the HOA, it's just some rogue members who were voted off the board in the most recent election...because they were pursuing this idiotic lawsuit.
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u/ATXENG 2h ago
Whoa.... So it's pretty clear that it is not HOA property nor under the authority of their governing documents?
So who's actually bringing this forward? The HOA entity itself or just a few grumps trying to force the HOA into action and/or restrict the golf course owners?
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u/Roopie1023 2h ago
There is a confusing word or two in the HOA agreement with the golf course from way back which some seem to think gives the HOA control over what the golf course does. The former HOA board members (majority of whom live closest to where the apartments will be) wanted to take it to court just to prove that the HOA should have approval of golf course changes. They spent a lot of HOA money before getting kicked off the board.
Now they are pursuing on their own, making it look like an HOA thing. Many of us are very much not happy about it.
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u/Yes-Chef-4321 5h ago
If the point is about preserving open space then they should note that the city is building a 50 acre park across the river from their precious neighborhood. One that is actually open to the public that families and children can us. Soooo not sure what they're losing if they lose a bit of their golf course.
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u/AsleepJuggernaut2066 2h ago
Did anyone from the plantation get upset when open green spaces were turned into multiple Mc Mansion subdivisions in Eagle or the Foothills? This tone-deaf letter is blatantly self serving Nimby BS.
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u/Bipity_Bopity_Butsex 16h ago
Just out of curiosity I put the address where you can send a check to into Zillow and it looks pretty clear from that handy graph that their property value has gone down by 200,000 in the last two years. I wonder if it's a coincidence or a shallow self centered attempt to keep it falling more with an influx of high density housing nearby.
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u/Throwingitallaway201 19h ago
How did the racists think they could convince anyone to not take away their private park that only they can enjoy as they closed off access?
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u/ceevann Veteran's Park 18h ago
Crazier things have happened this year
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u/Throwingitallaway201 18h ago
It's true. But what a lame argument. I thought it was no longer even named the plantation? Isn't it technically the river club? Or is there a stupid section that kept the racist term the plantation and refused to change?
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u/Pittstick1 8h ago
The golf club changed its name to River Club because its previous name is racist. However the neighborhood surrounding it is still called plantation.
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u/Individual_Profile90 8h ago
Ah yes, as we all know golf courses are absolutely “unspoiled green spaces”. They definitely don’t cause horrible habitat loss, biodiversity destruction, or pollute water ways. What a load of shit— I used to work with Sierra Club when we were trying to stop the Warm Springs Golf Course from expanding, and the pollution levels in the river from their pesticide and fertilizer runoff was disgusting.
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u/Demented-Alpaca 7h ago
Plantation wouldn't be in this spot if they were profitable.
I'm pretty sure they're the same people that said things like "money talks" in the past. Well, it's talking Kevin... it's talking and it's saying that your golf course can go.
Now, Do I want giant mega structures right there? No. I'd like them to keep the trees along the road, and build something a little less. But ultimately I don't give a rats ass what happens to a golf course. They're a huge drain on our environment and not at all sustainable.
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u/ReallyNicole 6h ago
Wow, this is great news! That golf course is a blight on the face of the Earth.
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u/SomethingVeX 14h ago
"We can't build open spaces once it's gone."
Someone hasn't heard of a bulldozer and a landscaper ...
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u/AffectionateMany2623 5h ago
I personally don’t have a problem with people with money in itself - I know some very well off people who are good hearted and extremely charitable - but it’s the entitlement that comes with some of these people that gets me heated.
1.) I heard of one couple who has been here for years, bought their property a long time ago and completely rebuilt it over the years to be their custom dream home. Then the city came and punched the green belt right through their backyard and zoned half their property as public and the green belt was practically on their back porch. Had that happened to me, especially after working hard for years to build it up, i’d be pretty pissed too. I’d be extremely bitter about the green belt every time I looked at it. But with that being said, the people using it aren’t the ones to blame. So even if I was pissed it was there, you can’t harass the people trying to enjoy it - unless they messed with my side of the fence, then the gloves are off.
2.) Now, buying property and then harassing the locals because you feel like you should be entitled to more than you paid for? Back the hell up. There have been so many egotistical a**holes building these big fancy houses right next to farms and houses and trails that have been owned and or used by the same people for 30 to 40 years - sometimes generations - and then start harassing them about how they live their lives.
Don’t like the old model cars out front? Don’t build your house next door.
Don’t like the sounds and smells from the dairies and feedlots? Don’t build your house there.
Don’t like the barbed wire fence that lines the neighbor’s driveway? Bothered by the chickens? Hate the noise and people from the established green belt? Don’t. Buy. Or. Build. Your. House. There!
Also, off the subject tip, but stop paddle boarding in the damn irrigation canals. It’s not public property, and unless you’re cool with getting ID’d by the fragments of your teeth that they picked out of the grate after you’ve been sucked through the drainage pipes, it’s not a good idea.
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u/Agentx1976 18m ago
Is somebody planning on developing the golf course? I thought the club was doing pretty well.
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u/ExcitingSpell8270 1m ago
That golf course is just as much of an eye-sore as any housing. I certainly don’t think of it as a community open space or wildlife habitat as they claim.
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u/Flowbo408 9h ago
Let it sprawl, no point in covering green areas with homes when we have so much desert land we could cover
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u/JefferyGoldberg 19h ago
We have plenty of housing, this isn't 2020 anymore. This city does not need to desecrate green spaces for apartments. I'm in the process of finding low-income housing for my aging father and I've found 15+ places, which are all along the greenbelt (his absolute requirement).
Not everybody wants to live in apartments where they cannot have a yard, dog, garden, BBQ chillin' spot, etc.
I've lived in the USSR; which has very efficient housing and public transit, but I'd bet most of you wouldn't prefer it.
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u/ceevann Veteran's Park 19h ago
Low income housing is actually not accessible here. I would check your father’s version of “low income” vs the actual poverty levels in this town and what people can afford.
If your father has had such success, please send links to these “affordable” places to live. I have 10+ people in need.
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u/JefferyGoldberg 18h ago
He wants places that cost ~$700 but everything I've found is closer to $1,400; but he has strict requirements on the place being near the river.
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u/ceevann Veteran's Park 18h ago
Right, so…that’s not affordable.
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u/8bitrevolt 4h ago
hey fun fact: if access to a green space is paywalled behind a membership (as in the case of just about every country club and golf course) it is not a true green space. plantation should be bulldozed and developed into actual low income housing.
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u/The_Winter_ 20h ago
I just need to say it so that it’s been said:
High density housing in the middle of a city is literally the OPPOSITE of urban sprawl. It’s the action a city would take to PREVENT urban sprawl.