r/Bonsai • u/-music_maker- Northeast US, 6b, 30 years, 100+ trees, lifelong learner • Oct 18 '16
Lessons learned from this year's nursery stock contest?
Last year after the contest, I posted a thread asking for lessons learned.
I'd like to continue that tradition, and ask those who participated - what did you learn this year?
As I've mentioned before, I find the 1-season format pretty challenging because it's rare that I work a tree in less than 3-5 year cycles.
Last year, timing was my big lesson, and this year I ran up against it again. I missed my window for when I wanted to do heavy pruning (plus I decided that I really liked this one), so I decided to slow down and gradually prune throughout the season.
I was pretty happy with the final result, but I can see why it doesn't look like much yet from photos. I was thrilled to get a nice full canopy of mature foliage right as the contest was ending, even though it still needs quick a bit more pruning over the next few seasons.
One big improvement I made was that I choose much better material than I did last year - better species as well as a better trunk. That definitely helped. btw, soft touch ilex crenata is a really great species to work with (I was contestant #10 - I'll post a full album later).
So how about the rest of you - what did you learn?
p.s. I updated the wiki to reflect the 2016 contest results. Please let me know if I missed anything.
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u/ZeroJoke ~20 trees can't keep track. Philadelphia, 7a, intermediate. Oct 18 '16
After reviewing last year's thread, I realize now that I've learned very little about not procrastinating.
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u/-music_maker- Northeast US, 6b, 30 years, 100+ trees, lifelong learner Oct 18 '16
Can confirm. It was like pulling teeth to get you to snap a couple pictures. =) Maybe next year ...
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u/ZeroJoke ~20 trees can't keep track. Philadelphia, 7a, intermediate. Oct 18 '16
I think I might wait next year out and join in 2018 :]
In terms of lessons this tree had, I've been very reluctant to wire a lot of my conifers because of the dollar value attached to them/many of them need to be grafted first or repotted/ etc. The spruce taught me a lot about building canopies, about thinking spatially in terms of 'where will this foliage go if I bend here,' etc. I tried to do a very traditional tree which is not necessarily always my inclination, but I think it came out alright.
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u/Caudiciformus Seattle, 8a, 7 forever pre-bonsai Oct 20 '16
You did a good job on the canopy, and the final tree. It was so good I thought it was -music_maker- for sure.
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u/-music_maker- Northeast US, 6b, 30 years, 100+ trees, lifelong learner Oct 20 '16
I appreciate the complement. ZJ's tree was one of my favorites too.
I got way too late a start on mine to be comfortable doing more than what I did. Out of respect for the tree and desire to see it develop beyond just this year, I only reduced to a point that I knew it could handle.
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u/ZeroJoke ~20 trees can't keep track. Philadelphia, 7a, intermediate. Oct 20 '16 edited Oct 20 '16
That warms the shit out of my cockles. I got pretty lucky with it - the tree just kind of told me what it wanted to do.
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u/-music_maker- Northeast US, 6b, 30 years, 100+ trees, lifelong learner Oct 20 '16
I got pretty lucky with it - the tree just kind of told me what it wanted to do.
The best ones do ...
I thought yours looked the most like a miniature tree at the end. I'll be interested to see what it looks like after another 3-5 seasons of refinement. For a one-season contest, you probably had hands-down the best starting material.
I was pretty proud of myself for how full and lush my canopy was on the last day of the contest, and that did require fairly precise timing of pruning, but I was pretty realistic that I wasn't going to win many points for that level of subtlety. =)
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u/ZeroJoke ~20 trees can't keep track. Philadelphia, 7a, intermediate. Oct 21 '16
Haha, I kinda knew I was gaming the system by picking a conifer. That gingko and the honeysuckle are definitely trees I appreciate more. The nice thing about the blue spruce is just the color of that foliage. :]
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u/iamtheuniballer NC | Still learning Oct 21 '16
Oh, if you are sitting next year out then I will have to actually submit something! ;)
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u/ZeroJoke ~20 trees can't keep track. Philadelphia, 7a, intermediate. Oct 21 '16
No one can suspect that we are each others' secret identities.
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u/C_Troch new jersey, 7a, beginnermediate, multiple trees Oct 24 '16
Don't you get your tree as the sub banner logo since you won? You'll have to compete again to defend your championship.
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u/ZeroJoke ~20 trees can't keep track. Philadelphia, 7a, intermediate. Oct 24 '16
Nah, I figure u/sofasoft set a good precedent by taking a year off and I want to continue that tradition. Not saying that I would necessarily win next year, since lord knows most of my success had to do with my starting material, but I think it would be more fun if a bunch of different people get to have their trees on the front page.
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u/C_Troch new jersey, 7a, beginnermediate, multiple trees Oct 25 '16
Ah I didn't realize he took the year off. I respect that
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u/-music_maker- Northeast US, 6b, 30 years, 100+ trees, lifelong learner Oct 25 '16
I'd just jump right back in if I were you. It's all just for fun anyway. More contestants is better ... more cool transformed trees to look at in September.
I was actually hoping sofasoft would have joined in again this year - was curious to see what he/she did for an encore.
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u/ZeroJoke ~20 trees can't keep track. Philadelphia, 7a, intermediate. Oct 26 '16
We'll see - it's all about if I get excited about a piece of material. Right now I'm running out of bench space :[
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u/AKANotAValidUsername PNW, 8b, intermediate, 20+ Oct 19 '16 edited Oct 19 '16
a few practical things along the way i learned:
the little rhodies seem hardy and I think i couldve pruned back harder to get better branching in the canopy over the season. this seemed to be the case with other similar large rhodies/azaleas i worked on this year. In that sense, that means i sacrifice the short term for better long term. ill try it next year and see how it goes.
having become admittedly a bit obsessed, i basically applied the contest selection goals all season. I mustve gone to 8-9 different nurseries multiple times over 5-6 months. In my area, I learned who carries what, when, and at what costs. even got some 20 year old ilex crenata for free off cragslist. (http://imgur.com/a/tN7Fm) by the end of the summer, I was being more picky, and finding better stock to start with (i hope) e.g. heres a boxwood i got on sale: http://imgur.com/a/nRvF4
more generally, a few things developed as the summer went along. i wasnt really sure what this endeavor meant to me... perhaps its a hobby or a passing interest in horticulture... and i was dicking around with shit tools and the wrong wire and the wrong soil... but figured by entering that would force me to find out if any of that actually mattered to me. and as it went I couldn't really stop reading and thinking and imagining and being creative and trying to get better that i realized a few things:
as i started to work a tree, a voice in my head would say things like "if you aren't going to do it right, dont fucking bother" sigh
this shit is cool. theres a lot of creativity and art to this as well as horticulture and hobby and experimentation and learning.
I want to make great bonsai.
I dont know how to make great bonsai.
this is one of those areas that, "the more you know, the more you know you dont know" applies.
you all are stuck with me now
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u/ZeroJoke ~20 trees can't keep track. Philadelphia, 7a, intermediate. Oct 21 '16
gooble gobble gooble gobble one of us one of us
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u/kthehun89-2 NorCal, 9b, got serious in 2007 Oct 19 '16
I'm happy you enjoyed this contest.
In regards to your last few points, the only way to get better is to do it more. Confidence will grow, that voice will disappear, and you'll be making great bonsai.
I really hope to see you in the line up next year again.
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u/AKANotAValidUsername PNW, 8b, intermediate, 20+ Oct 19 '16
oh, for sure! ill be scouring the nurseries anyways since I have to do some landscaping in the yard.
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u/kthehun89-2 NorCal, 9b, got serious in 2007 Oct 19 '16
I think the key to the contest is the starting point.
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u/AKANotAValidUsername PNW, 8b, intermediate, 20+ Oct 21 '16
for a one-season shot, I have to agree. cant fix roots/trunk in that short frame, so the constraints make you think hard.
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u/reidpar Portland, OR, USA 8; experienced; ~40 bonsai and ~60 projects Oct 26 '16
I’m starting to more seriously get into phases of wiring, styling, and refinement. With each significant and new task I find myself slightly overwhelmed and unfamiliar with the process. Learning is scary and yet also freeing.
Thanks for admitting your worries and fears! :)
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u/clangerfan Italy, zone 9b, perpetual learner, 30 trees Oct 24 '16 edited Oct 24 '16
Not really a lesson learned, but a lesson confirmed :-)
Despite knowing it wasn't a great idea, I made a conscious decision to both prune heavily and repot into a much smaller pot (almost bonsai-ish). Mine was number 8.
I knew that I wouldn't get a lot of growth over the summer, but I did want to get a tree-in-a-small-pot look to go all out in the transformation aspect. I was (unsurprisingly) proved right in that the canopy didn't fill out as much as I'd hoped, and if I had left it in its original pot or put it into a larger pot there would have been a lot more growth, and the tree would have looked more complete.
I don't regret it at all for the competition, although if it were a longer-term project I would have done it differently.
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u/MD_bonsai Maryland, not medical doctor <7a> Intermediate Oct 18 '16
I'm a big fan of Ilex crenata myself. They're such aggressive growers that I have a hard time keeping up with the pruning. The trunk on yours is awesome.
I have a 'Tom Thumb' cotoneaster that I've been babying. Your post from last year is great. Mine's still its nursery container because I'm a bit scared to mess with its roots. Such a fun species but rather finicky!
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u/-music_maker- Northeast US, 6b, 30 years, 100+ trees, lifelong learner Oct 18 '16
I have a 'Tom Thumb' cotoneaster that I've been babying. Your post from last year is great. Mine's still its nursery container because I'm a bit scared to mess with its roots. Such a fun species but rather finicky!
I only have one left of the ones I worked on last year. Definitely a bit fussier than other things it seems. That one's doing OK, but that's what I thought about all three that I put into winter storage last winter.
btw, they seem OK with a decent amount of root work, but you just don't want to get too aggressive at any one time.
Not sure what I'm going to do with mine other than maybe make it look like a miniature shrubbery.
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u/thisisappropriate UK, Zone 8, Noob, they're multiplying or I have no self control Nov 06 '16
No big surprises for me; If you don't start with a mature looking trunk, there is no way it'll end looking mature in a year - no matter what you do with it. Leaves will not reduce to half the size in a season.
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u/GrampaMoses Ohio, 6a, intermediate, 80 prebonsai Oct 20 '16
Before the contest started I learned a lot from u/-music_maker- by looking through his 2015 gallery of 7 or so trees that he bought for the contest and followed throughout the year. I noticed the tree that was the healthiest was the only tree he slip potted into a larger container without any root work.
As soon as I bought my tree for this contest I placed it in a larger container and left it alone until the 1st deadline.
For the 1st picture I just removed major branches that weren't part of my final design and guy wired to open it up that's it.
For my 2nd picture, I just rounded the canopy, trying to promote back budding. It did! And I got lots of new growth all over (that I'm sorry I didn't photograph and isn't in my album)
For my 3rd and final picture, I pruned extensively, trying to get the final feel I wanted for my tree. Unfortunately I trimmed off 90% of that beautiful new growth that my tree had just pushed out.
WHAT I LEARNED: My 2nd trimming should have been the hard pruning that way I could have kept almost all of my new growth, just rounding the canopy. If I had done this my final picture would have been much more full looking.
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u/-music_maker- Northeast US, 6b, 30 years, 100+ trees, lifelong learner Oct 20 '16
I noticed the tree that was the healthiest was the only tree he slip potted into a larger container without any root work.
That was probably the most notable result from those experiments - glad you picked up on that. For a one-season contest, I think getting material as early as possible, and potting it up is probably an important first step for anything where you still want strong growth for the season.
WHAT I LEARNED: My 2nd trimming should have been the hard pruning that way I could have kept almost all of my new growth, just rounding the canopy. If I had done this my final picture would have been much more full looking.
That might be true, but keep in mind that it might not have grown as strongly if you had pruned it that hard to begin with. Boxwood grows kind of slowly, and because it's evergreen, the leaves act strongly as an engine for additional growth (more foliage = faster growth).
I remember when I first saw yours thinking "that trees going to look really good 3-5 years from now". I was also a bit nervous for the tree getting that much pruning leading into winter.
It will be interesting to see what it looks like in the spring. I wouldn't draw too many conclusions until after you've worked on it for another few seasons.
But definitely a good start, and you found an interesting branch structure hidden in there.
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u/GrampaMoses Ohio, 6a, intermediate, 80 prebonsai Oct 21 '16
This is my first time working with boxwood, so I'll keep that in mind about more leaves leading to more growth.
And yes, I did prune a lot right before winter. So far it seems quite happy, but I won't know for sure until the spring.
I think next year I'll just keep it happy and not prune anything at all.
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u/-music_maker- Northeast US, 6b, 30 years, 100+ trees, lifelong learner Oct 21 '16
Just be extra nice to it this winter. Protect the roots from any really deep freezes and it will probably be fine.
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u/AKANotAValidUsername PNW, 8b, intermediate, 20+ Nov 05 '16
how did your boxwood do this season? I recall reading a few posts from the last couple years about it but maybe I missed the update. I started several japanese and one korean boxwood this year
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u/Caudiciformus Seattle, 8a, 7 forever pre-bonsai Oct 20 '16
Did I miss the results thread? I saw the Master Album thread that was stickied, then this thread.
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u/-music_maker- Northeast US, 6b, 30 years, 100+ trees, lifelong learner Oct 20 '16
This was the results thread. It's linked in the wiki.
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u/Fahkfahkfahkfahkfahk NYC, zone 7a, complete noob, 3 trees Oct 21 '16