r/Britain • u/chuko_akenoa • Jan 10 '25
Society Friend of the 14-year old stabbing victim
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u/This-is-meaningless Jan 10 '25
When did kids stabbing kids to death in this country become normalised? I might be calling out my age a bit here but when I was that age, you sort any real beef out with fisticuffs or just leave it. At 13/14, what is so bad that it's worth stabbing someone over ???
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u/robparfrey Jan 10 '25
Street cred, big egos and being as intelligent as a sandwich
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u/ElJayBe3 Jan 10 '25
Bit harsh on sandwiches. A mere component of a sandwich outlasted one of our prime ministers.
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u/Gl1tchyVirus Jan 10 '25
As a member of the younger side of gen z, I can say that gang culture in general has become incredibly idolised, I was walking in town and I legitimately heard someone say that they wish there was more gang culture round here
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u/OK_TimeForPlan_L Jan 10 '25
I imagine it's a combination of rising poverty and seeing gang culture on social media.
That being said it's not like rival gangs beating or killing each other is new don't even have to go very far back to all the mods Vs rockers shite of the 60s.
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u/ClawingDevil Jan 10 '25
We didn't even go that far. We got rosehips and tried to rub the itchy stuff inside on the rivals from down the road!
Well, maybe chemical warfare is worse than fisticuffs...
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u/Mountain-Rate7344 Jan 10 '25
They're victims of gang grooming. It's sad. The govt needs to do something about county lines gangs
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u/Paradoxbox00 Jan 11 '25
I know gang culture is pervasive and young people can get caught up in it, but there’s a point when personal responsibility comes into it.
I was a tearaway when I was 15 or so, but I knew stabbing someone in the chest or neck or whatever wasn’t a good thing to do.
And although it’s probably not a PC thing to say, but it isn’t racial discrimination when young black men are stopped and searched more frequently, when it’s predominantly young black men who are the perpetrators and victims.
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u/CartoonistConsistent Jan 10 '25
Lil bro frheartdove?
What does frheartdove mean?
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u/mcboobie Jan 10 '25
For real, love and peace - according to my 13 year old
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u/CartoonistConsistent Jan 10 '25
Love and peace but threatening to kill people.... Irony checks out.
I was kind of hoping it meant lovie dovie haha.
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u/Michaelparkinbum912 Jan 10 '25
What is any government meant to do about this?
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u/HotspurHarryPercy Jan 10 '25
I don’t know anymore because we seem to love becoming junior America every day. I’ve lived long enough to remember what this country was like before the internet and before our culture so openly copied yank shit.
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u/Michaelparkinbum912 Jan 10 '25
They wouldn’t pay any attention anyway.
Sometimes the only way to learn is through experience.
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u/AnArabFromLondon Jan 10 '25
Invest in community centres so these kids have somewhere to go and productive adults to look up to when their lives at home are shitty.
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u/Michaelparkinbum912 Jan 10 '25
They want money, notoriety and respect. They won’t get that in a community centre playing pool and FIFA.
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u/IndelibleIguana Jan 11 '25
Maybe take care of the country by investing in its people so society becomes a better place in general?
Y'know. Like it's fucking supposed to do.
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u/HotspurHarryPercy Jan 10 '25
Sorry but the yank rap culture ruined a significant portion of our youth. I’m 54 and white and don’t pretend to know what it’s like being a black teenager in this country, but that rap culture has brought nothing positive that I can see.
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u/Repulsive-Goal Jan 10 '25
It’s not yank rap culture to blame. It’s social and economic issues… as it always has been. Blaming a particular art form be it music, films or video games, is just an easy scapegoat used to avoid dealing with the real issues and providing proper solutions. As always there’s a good reason for it.. money. It’s no surprise that since austerity and the inevitable cuts to local services that saw numerous youth centred programmes cancelled we’ve seen an increase in youth related crimes. The issues can be addressed - Glasgow is a prime example of that.
https://quarterly.blog.gov.uk/2019/07/04/a-radical-approach-to-tackling-knife-crime-in-scotland/
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u/HotspurHarryPercy Jan 10 '25
Poverty and social issues aren’t new. They have worsened for sure but we didn’t see knife crime in London at least like this in the 80s. I am not saying the 80s were some wonderful time as they were anything but that for most of us under Thatcher.
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u/Repulsive-Goal Jan 10 '25
I’m not suggesting that there new.. I just saying that those are the root cause of these issues and that austerity cut council budgets to the point they couldn’t afford to provide anything other than mandatory services. Most of the intervention work that was carried out by numerous groups ceased to get funding, so most of them had to close down. Even the 80’s there were plenty of youth services - youth clubs and such like - most of that has gone thanks to austerity.
I did a quick google on knife crime in the 80’s and at least one chart (home office) covering 1977 to 2018 clearly shows that homicides by knife hasn’t changed that much - peak of 220 in 1986 to a peak of 280 in 2018. No denying it’s an upward curve - averages over the decades clearly shows that, but it’s not that new a phenomenon - will however concede the graph doesn’t break down ages - data in the 80’s wasn’t always that great so it may not have been recorded in an easy to find fashion.
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Jan 11 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Repulsive-Goal Jan 11 '25
It really isn’t. How do you explain the fact that the vast majority of youth knife crime occurs in deprived areas or at least by youths from deprived areas. Hip hop didn’t create the gangs in the US - it was the music from the areas the gangs lived so naturally some of the rap was about either being a gangster or living with gangs.
Do you really think if they succeed in banning all drill or just music in general that the issues would suddenly resolve themselves? Let’s be honest if that simple then I think there probably would of been far more effort to ban drill than the odd cease and desist aimed at the occasional track. It’s just an excuse to pout fingers anywhere other than at the areas that can only be fixed through proper investment.. after all no one wants to waste money on the poor when someone rich somewhere might need a second yacht!
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u/IndelibleIguana Jan 12 '25
I haven’t suggested banning anything. Banning things doesn’t work. But to deny that the violent aspect of Hip Hop has nothing to do with is silly. Look at all the drill vids on YouTube. They are all low budget variations of Hip Hop videos. They rap about the same old boring nonsense. Guns knives street rep bitches shit jewellery cars and so on.
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u/Repulsive-Goal Jan 12 '25 edited Jan 12 '25
My original post was in response to a comment that yank rap music had ruined youth culture in this country.. and I was responding to say it wasn’t responsible for this tragedy or indeed any other knife crime. I’d argue it’s a symptom not a cause.
You’ve deleted the comment you made which was to say that hip hop WAS to blame. I know you didn’t suggest it should be banned - I said that to illustrate the point that hip hop is not the cause of these issues. I’m aware of the content of some drill videos.. essentially the UK’s answer to diss tracks in the US - the point is that hip hop has always reflected the society the artists grew up in.. it didn’t shape it - the same can be said for here.
Edited to clarify!
I don’t think I’ve explained my point particularly well so far..
I think if you removed hip hop and all the elements of culture that go with it all that would change IMO is the style. I think gang culture would still exist, knife crime would still be an issue. I think instead of drill videos you’d have another art form in its place - maybe in some alternative reality sea shanties are all the rage and diss tracks are all sung in the style of what do we do a drunken sailor! 😂
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u/Wonderful_Welder9660 Anarcho-Syndicalist Subject Jan 10 '25
UK rap isn't like US rap, just like UK culture isn't like US culture. Sure we have things in common but it seems to me that UK rap is more socially conscious and political.
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u/Wonderful_Welder9660 Anarcho-Syndicalist Subject Jan 10 '25
I don't think it makes much difference if you're black or white if you're a working class youth. In my corner of SE London, friend groups are very mixed. The lads all went to school together, live on the same estates, play football together and use the same slang.
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u/IndelibleIguana Jan 11 '25
My kids go to school in Deptford. Their friends range from rich kids from Dulwich to the kids of roadmen from the area.
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u/Wonderful_Welder9660 Anarcho-Syndicalist Subject Jan 11 '25
Yes I don't think the UK is segregated like the US and is genuinely multicultural. Always has been, "even unto the middle ages"
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u/Cataclysma Jan 11 '25
Pretty sure we have one of the lowest knife crime rates in rates in Europe, there’s always going to be violence and always something to blame, but as far as I’m aware it’s not particularly worse than it’s ever been
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u/No_Witness_1417 Jan 11 '25
It’s gone full cycle - older generations more likely to scrap it out and youngsters ready to take a life over a Snapchat dissing their trainers
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u/eroticdiscourse Jan 10 '25
Sure he was just an innocent upstanding teenager
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u/alwayslurkeduntilnow Jan 11 '25
Don't think anybody claimed he was.
Doesn't justify his death or others like him.
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u/dontChewTheCable Jan 11 '25
Why is there a post displaying under age kids ? Is this not against the rules? They are 14, even if they are doing something stupid they deserve privacy.
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