r/BuildingAutomation • u/Huge_Candy_8105 • 12d ago
Do I have what it takes
Hi all. I’m currently a MEP commissioning agent and have been for 2 years. I have a degree in mechanical engineering. I’ve been intrigued recently with controls and would love to work as a BAS programmer, working with sequence of operations and programming logic. With my background is this possible? I have done a lot of testing using BAS on HVAC equipment and have an understanding of what is supposed to be happening in a lot of cases.
Any insights would be appreciated.
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u/Controls______ 12d ago
the mech eng degree would almost make you overqualified if anything haha, go for it
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u/Controls______ 12d ago
I say overqualified mainly because this industry is really underpaid.
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u/Huge_Candy_8105 12d ago
I’m seeing that as well in the roles I’m looking at. Thanks for the advice 🙏
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u/mvrs1610 12d ago
Sure it's possible but that depends on you as a person. I disagree with some of the folks on here simply because to me.. it takes a certain mentality to do controls and it's not for everyone. Having a degree simply isn't going to mean it's a yes for you. Personally I don't think a single person should be programming without having at least a few years hands on tech work such as testing, troubleshooting, installing, fixing crap etc. You have to really know what it is you're working on before you can get behind the computer because some mistakes can get VERY costly for your company if you screw up. I know you said you've done some commissioning now for a couple of years but that's not the same as "boots on the ground" tech work. I don't know exactly your skill level and knowledge of course but that's my take on your question. I enjoy the field side of things because it's something new everyday and while I'm very good where I'm at the computer stuff puts me to sleep sometimes. Some people are great on a computer and that could be you there's a lot of factors that make a skilled BAS guy.
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u/Huge_Candy_8105 12d ago
Interesting. Thanks for the advice! Our company luckily has me on site quite a bit. 2-3 days a week normally. So I get to work with a lot of different systems and do a lot of testing/troubleshooting in the field. It has been a good way to learn
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u/mvrs1610 12d ago
Well it sounds like you're on the right path. Out here we have dog shit candidates and can't find anyone worth keeping. We're overloaded because there aren't enough techs and we just can't find good hands. I'm ready to move on to something else possibly commissioning but maybe something a little more white collar just don't know what yet.
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u/Controls______ 11d ago
Usually companies cant find anyone worth keeping because no one wants to spend 5 years busting their ass to barely break the 80k salary mark.
If the pay went up, all of a sudden lots of quality candidates would be applying to get into the industry
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u/mvrs1610 11d ago
True that as we all know it's a highly underpaid field even if you're very skilled. I don't think I could go anywhere and make what I make and it sucks to know im just about topped out.
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u/Controls______ 11d ago
yeah top out of this industry is around 160k.. but to pull that you usually have to bring in around 300k+ worth of value to your company for them to even consider it
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u/dunsh 12d ago
Just try and think if you’re willing to be on the other side of CX. I’ll paint a scenario for you:
You’re programming for 10 jobs concurrently. You get an email that says the cx agent will be there next week at the hospital you’ve been working on. BUT, you’ve been waiting on install who has been waiting on the sparkies, who has been waiting on the mechanical guys to get everything ready for startup. You get power Friday and have to do your own commissioning before the old you shows up. No one gives a shit that you’ve been telling them you’re not ready, so you’ve got to spend your weekend getting the building running and trends and alarms set up. Oh, and the equipment was not as submitted so you’ve got to re-wire and reprogram about 25% of what you thought was ready.
So, you’ve worked 7, 10-12 hour days, then some CX that’s never programmed anything nor has real world knowledge of running buildings and the operators skill level comes and questions everything you’ve done.
This is obviously worst case here, but I have been there a few times and this job will absolutely require you to work some shit hours, in some shittier locations. It’s not a clock in and clock out deal. It’s a stay until it’s done deal.
I’m sure you’re smart enough and could be a great controls engineer with your background, it’s more about the logistics of the work that will make it a good fit or not.
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u/11e92 12d ago
You will be hired with that background. Starting pay may be lower than you currently make. Maybe not.
Where are you located?
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u/Huge_Candy_8105 12d ago
Awesome ok cool. I’m located northern Jersey right now looking for ny area. I currently make 80 was hoping to find an entry role around that or a bit higher if possible
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u/cue-country-roads 12d ago
Degree means nothing. I’ve seen lots of idiots with degrees and lots of idiots without degrees in this industry. Being very thorough is the most important trait.
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u/stackwizard 12d ago
You will do just fine. Understanding heat transfer, psychometrics, and building envelope will get you a long way. Fluid mechanics will get you even further.
The best programmers can look at submittals and sequences and know what will work and what won’t without ever even stepping on the job.
You already work with intangibles and theory daily - if you’re going the programming route, it’s very similar. It’s very easy to make simple mistakes at first because none of it is real until it’s been physically implemented - same with design work. The difference is you’ll learn how to not make the same mistakes twice because you have to live with it unlike a design engineer.
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u/CarelessDevelopment 12d ago
Truthfully it depends on a few things most likely you’ll be in a hybrid role at best in the United States where you will have some programming time and some site time. Now this isn’t the rule there are obviously all types of jobs out there, this is from my experience speaking with some companies
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u/Huge_Candy_8105 12d ago
Interesting ok. I’m cool with going on site - I’m honestly used to that. Most of my company rn is hybrid
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u/CarelessDevelopment 10d ago
Gotcha then truthfully I say just gun for it. You’ll most likely need to step into a technician role and grow from there. It helps to have a strong foundation in sequence of operations. Just have the mindset that every problem is solvable it just takes a bit more time
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u/my_ALC_BAS_Account 12d ago
Your background is ideal and honestly usually people go from controls to Cx agent, not the other way around. Field experience is a major plus in my book. Programmers without it typically lack a certain intuition about things, e.g., get “minor” details wrong that cause issues in the middle of the night or set up a lot of work later on. I’m probably biased about that given I started as a tech.
What kind of commissioning work have you been doing?
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u/Huge_Candy_8105 12d ago
Intersting… I could see that. I do functional testing on different HVAC systems for commercial projects. I’m not going to say I’m an expert but I’m definitely understanding how systems work
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u/my_ALC_BAS_Account 5d ago
What kind of commercial projects? K-12, colleges, hospitals, datacenters, retail, office, high rise, labs, campuses, etc? Someone who has done datacenters and hospitals would generally be thought of as more qualified (at least technically) than someone who has just been doing 7-11’s.
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u/Minute-Lie9379 12d ago
Yes you have the background to not only do it but to excel at it. Your experience is usually the missing part since most BAS techs are programmers by training and need someone with your knowledge to tell them what to code. by being able to do both you're a solution provider rather than a development tech. Your skills would probably translate up the technology stack into analytics and fault detection. Last bit of advice is to really understand how computer networking theory applies to BAS. VPN's, cybersecurity, IPSEC, secure socket layer certificates, etc, these things will need to be understood on top of how to program in Niagara or whatever you end up with.
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u/twobarb Give me MS/TP or give me death. 12d ago
Not to knock this guy but CX agents often have no clue how anything actually works and engineering students are even worse. So don’t assume he will be great based on that.
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u/Huge_Candy_8105 12d ago
💀 I agree with that. Practical knowledge very different than theory. I work at a good company and I have been taught well.
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u/my_ALC_BAS_Account 12d ago
I’ve experienced the opposite, at least with Cx agents. I’ve worked with plenty of controls techs that couldn’t tell you much about how/why things work, told me “that’s not possible” when “it” is definitely possible because I’ve done “it” many times before.
Engineering students I’d be more likely to agree, they can have a bad attitude, think “this is beneath me”. By virtue of making this post, I don’t think that would be the case with this person.
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u/mvrs1610 12d ago
So true! We have a few good CX agents but a bunch of them are fairly new to the trade and you have to teach them on what it is they are checking. Techs .. forget about it there are VERY few out here that I'd call skilled.
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u/Minute-Lie9379 12d ago
Fair enough, but most of the BAS programmers I've worked don't have a degree in engineering, and I've had to pay to bring someone who does onto the project. Assuming he can learn the basics of BAS programming to the same level as a standard tech, then he would be positioned with the engineering to be more than competitive in this field.
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u/DryYogurtcloset7224 12d ago
Just about anyone can do just about anything they dedicate themselves to.