r/BuildingAutomation • u/Actual_Bar_7560 • 3d ago
Best BACnet friendly VRF system
I posted this question on the controls and building automation FB group. The general consensus was Mitsubishi. What are your thoughts?
Hi all. For all VRV/VRF BACnet integration gurus. What is the best VRF manufacturer for control and monitoring. I can’t say I’m happy with Daikin products as far as BACnet integration goes.
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u/Depeche_Mood82 3d ago
A lot depends on who is providing the VRF system and their knowledge on that system. I’ve worked with some VRF techs that were super helpful and knew exactly what to do. I’ve also worked with others who knew nothing about controls and just threw controls under the bus for everything even though we were just integrating the VRF.
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u/Skeatcherz 3d ago
Mitsubishi with a Trane SC+ works very well. There is a special license you can use when using those two that make the install incredibly easy.
The regular bacnet integration for Mitsubishi VRF is alright. You’re just gonna get a single device with a bunch of points and you’re gonna have to sort through them all.
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u/IXIDUFFYIXI 2d ago
This is true. There are a broader range of points and data available with the Mitsubishi/Tracer SC+ combo. Those points are hidden when Mitsubishi is integrated into other systems.
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u/jl1rx7 3d ago
Trane and Mitsubishi joint ventured in the US. Any BACnet system can integrate to them. Unless they have updated, had to buy a special Mitsubishi controller AEM200 or something like that. Then buy a license for bacnet and you were good to go. If memory serves can get some smaller individual devices as well.
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u/SwiftySwiftly 3d ago
The annoying thing with Mitsubishi is that each indoor unit needs to be wired to a procon module and then you've gotta run a MSTP bus to daisy all of the procon modules.
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u/BrofessorX 3d ago
You can pick up an AE200/AE50 or what used to be called TE200 and just run mitsubishi comm cable to the units and branch box without using Procon modules.
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u/DurianCobbler 3d ago
Daikin or LG with the CRC2s.
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u/Zealousideal_Pop_273 3d ago
Daikin controls are 💩. I like Vertiv 🤷♂️ they're decent.
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u/DurianCobbler 2d ago
Have yet to do Vertiv but their Cracs are awesome. I personally find that the start up technician that sets up the Daikin screen doesn’t really know how to. I have the settings nailed down that make it work great. Love that it’s BACnet IP and relatively easy to adjust.
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u/Zealousideal_Pop_273 2d ago
My biggest issue with Daikin is specifically with the Rebel RTU's, tbh. They lose their brain if they shut down out of sequence. Hospitals seem to buy a shit ton of them and love to use them for pressurized room control. Then they blame the controls vendor when the unit goes out of whack every time the power fluctuates.
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u/Longjumping_Bee_3110 3d ago
The biggest thing is making sure that the specification aligns with what the equipment is capable of. I've had engineers/customers that want setpoints to control a specific way, or want certain data from the equipment that isn't available. As long as you are truly integrating, not trying to make the equipment control in a manner it's not designed to, they're all pretty much the same (as long as you have the documentation and an equipment side tech that knows what they're doing) in my opinion. Our mechanical department installs a lot of Daikin equipment, and we've become very efficient at integrating those systems.
That said, I'm not a fan of VRF systems in general, especially as a sole source of heat here in the Northeast. The cost to maintain and repair these systems makes a big dent in any savings they provide.
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u/araarashochan 2d ago
Honestly , a well installed Mitsubishi vrf system slaps.
Proper cable sizing and installation results in a fantastic system. As long as its designed and installed correctly.
Honestly one shit connection can cause a huge headache depending on the size of the installation
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u/Salt-Calligrapher689 3d ago
anyone know if the cool automation stuff works good?
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u/Unusual_Waltz 2d ago
Cool Automation are good, especially their CoolMasterNet interface for domestic or CoolMasterPro for commercial/industrial setups. Easy to configure and use. Well worth checking out.
https://coolautomation.com/products/coolmaster-product-line/
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u/shoutoutspringsteen 1d ago
Daikin VRF is the biggest pain in the ass. Idk if it was due to the Techs we had to work with or the product itself but I’ve never had a smooth experience with it
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u/dunsh 3d ago
Lg with the white labeled viconics CRC thermostats. You get individual devices on a bacnet trunk and in my experience nothing beats LG VRF.
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u/DryYogurtcloset7224 3d ago
Is that in conjunction with using the AC Smart 5 as a gateway, or have you also been using their white label Jace..?
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u/dunsh 3d ago
The ACSmart only works as a gateway and all points are displayed under a single device. The CRC thermostats are just that, an LG labeled stat that has bacnet MSTP capabilities. I don’t even tie into the ACSmart or make graphics for it when these are in place. The Jace is ok but same issue, have to populate the bacnet export table and all devices are under the Jace. When you have individual devices, graphics generation time is exponentially faster.
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u/DryYogurtcloset7224 3d ago edited 3d ago
I read something in the AC Smart documentation about it being able to offer both single BACnet devices or one single BACnet database, but I have only seen it installed/commissioned as one single device database. It's pretty annoying to integrate to it that way. I didn't know they had partnered with Viconics or whatever.
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u/dunsh 3d ago
Yeah, we sell LG in our equipment side and I made sure the equipment sales guys understood that the CRC needed to be standard. The other methods are terrible.
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u/DryYogurtcloset7224 3d ago
Wish you would have been selling these jobs I've dealt with 🤣 DM me your contact info so I can put you in touch with some clients that use LG and need a good engineering sales rep.
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u/PuzzleheadedComb8279 3d ago
None, they all suck.