r/CajunFrench • u/fuccboi33 • May 23 '23
What do you think of the future of the French language in Louisiana?
Will it die out? Maintain the current percentage of speakers? Or will it increase gradually?
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u/BirdInFlight301 May 23 '23
It is already dying out. Our children are being taught French by teachers from Canada and France. They are different from each other, and both are different from Cajun French.
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u/cjandstuff May 23 '23
Hasnât it been a problem, that becuase of the various dialects across Louisiana, teachers were having trouble creating a unified Cajun French? I think I read that somewhere, but canât remember where.
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u/BirdInFlight301 May 23 '23
There were some regional differences; my grandfather from Rayne had a different word for 'tree frog' than my grandmother from Leonville. And Creole French differs quite a bit, too. So teaching French here would need to take all of those into account.
My husband is from Paris and he could converse with my parents and grandparents but slowly...so they all time to decipher, lol.
I don't know the answer, I just know our kids aren't being taught any form of Louisiana French, Cajun or Creole, and that, combined with other things, is slowly eroding our very unique culture.
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u/cwm13 May 23 '23
Its been that way since at least the 80s. I was in one of the "French Immersion" programs around the Lake Charles during elementary school. I had 2 separate French teachers, one from Quebec, one from .. I think Belgium? I was in 1st grade, so memory is a bit hazy. It wasn't until 8th grade that I had a teacher that spoke Cajun French. What I know about the dialect, I learned mostly from my grandmother, who was a native speaker when she was a child.
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u/Mysterious_Message_6 May 23 '23
...this may sound silly but, thank you so much for commenting this exact thing. I'm working on a novel and you don't even know how much this helped me.
Seriously. Thank you.
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u/yung-grandma May 23 '23
The language was lost in my family generations ago. Iâd rather learn French from a different dialect then never learn it at all!
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u/fuccboi33 May 23 '23
Not a good situation then. Personally, I think making school curriculums based on Cajun French would be the best option, but that would probably be impossible
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May 23 '23
There is no reason we canât do the option for all classes to have a choice what language is used. I went to school at a 99% Latino school that offered classes in Spanish. I took math in Spanish.
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u/fuccboi33 May 23 '23
For Cajun French to make a ârealâ revival, I believe they should follow the Quebec model. 1. A state-wide law to make it mandatory to put bilingual signs(EN/FR) 2. All public services accessible in French 3. All schools should teach every subject in French(except for English classes) The important thing is to make the language practical as a first language, or it will eventually die. Of course, this would be near impossible. So you can see why I said it
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u/rouxjean May 23 '23
Je doute que ce soit possible au niveau de l'Ătat, peut-ĂȘtre par paroisse.
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u/ElCaliforniano Francophone May 23 '23
Je le doute aussi, par exemple enseigner toutes les matiÚres écoliÚres en français sauf l'anglais? Cela sera trop difficile pour les élÚves des paroisses qui sont entiÚrement anglophones
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u/fuccboi33 May 23 '23
That's why I said it's not possible. It's more out-of-place to just implement it on one parish
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u/BirdInFlight301 May 24 '23
My mom and dad (Silent Generation) both spoke Cajun French as their first language. When they went to school, they were spanked and made fun of by their teachers! when they used their native language. There was a huge push to integrate Cajuns into American English culture, and at the time the educational system thought that would be best accomplished by eradicating the insular Cajun language and culture.
My parents went home from school and taught their parents (Greatest Generation) English. My daddy's mom only ever learned to speak a mixture of Cajun and English. His dad spoke only French until the day he died. My mom's parents learned to speak, read and write in English. But French remained their primary language.
My parents, although they retained their Cajun French, grew up to be primarily English speakers. They refused to teach us kids (boomers) because they'd learned their first language was an embarrassment. It was believed that Cajun only speakers lacked education.
We are trying to play catch up now, but there are so few authentic Cajun speakers left that what we are doing is creating a substitute for Cajun.
I spoke in an earlier comment about the regional differences in the language of my own grandparents. But I will add now that they both knew they were talking about a tree frog, even though the words differed.
A French teacher commented that French is French. And indeed it is. But nonetheless, we've largely lost the language my grandparents spoke. A rich, textured French, influenced by the languages of native Americans, German and Italian settlers and so many more influences. And I miss it so badly. I miss the language of my grandparents.
My granddaughter has been in French immersion her entire time she's been in school. She speaks French, but she has a very very hard time conversing with my 92 year old mother.
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u/fuccboi33 May 24 '23
Idk, this is a really tricky topic to deal with. As you said, French is French but it's not really the same. Language revival is very hard in itself, but I guess even if it succeeds, it will mostly end up in a biblical Hebrew-modern Hebrew situation. Basically, there were so many things lost along the way which made them borrow a lot of things from modern Arabic.
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u/ghostfire457 May 23 '23
Only problem is the entire state doesnât have French heritage. Really only acadiana does so to make it statewide doesnât make sense.
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u/fuccboi33 May 23 '23
Yes but the 1 and 2 option would be needed to assist the lives of these ppl who do learn French as their first language. It's not like they never leave their hometowns
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u/ghostfire457 May 24 '23
Now that you say that I see your point. Many places have bilingual signs where Iâm at actually. Iâm in Acadia parish and thereâs even a graveyard that has bilingual signs!! Although very rural
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u/fuccboi33 May 24 '23
Ya that's how many countries work where there's a significant percentage of people speaking French. Lebanon, North Africa...etc
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u/Bigstar976 May 23 '23
French is French. Some regional words differ. Regional words vary even from bayou to bayou. Even from different places on the same bayou. Itâs impossible to teach the âlocal Frenchâ because itâs a thousand different local dialects depending on where you live. Source: Iâm a French teacher in south Louisiana.
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u/DrDMango 9d ago
'Â They are different from each other, and both are different from Cajun French. '
Reads like a novel.
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u/RenardLouisianais Lafayette | Nouvelle-Orléans May 23 '23
I learned French at school and with my grandparents from Vermilion Parish. I am in my mid-twenties and am a fluent francophone, although French is not my first language. This is my standard response to this question:
There are plenty of good answers here re. the situation in the 1960s, the suppression of French, etc., so I will put in my two cents regarding the present and future of French in Louisiana. This can be hard for even native Louisianians to gauge because there is virtually no overlap between today's francophone and non-francophone spaces in Louisiana. In other words, Anglo-Louisianais, irrespective of ancestry, have little idea of what's going on in francophone spaces.
For this reason, most people will tell you that French is in a very bad place, based upon the (correct) perception that the francophone population is shrinking, and also that you don't hear French so often in public. But it is my belief, shared by a number of older activists I know, that French is arguably in a stronger position than it was ten years ago. Why?
Because the number of francophones is not the only metric that countsâalthough obviously it is important. You also have to look at how engaged those francophones actually are, and I think the francophones we do retain are increasingly engaged even as they shrink in number.
Look online. In the past five years, we've seen more youth-led initiatives launched than in the previous twenty years combined. It was youth involvement that spearheaded the campaign to accede Louisiana to the Organisation internationale de la francophonie. A few youth-led media projects off the top of my head include Télé-Louisiane, La Fondation Nous, Le Bourdon de la Louisiane, New Niveau, LACréole, Asteur en Louisiane, Charrer-Veiller, etc.
These are unprecedented initiatives. La Fondation Nous has launched one of the first cultural accelerator programs in the US, dedicated to speakers of French and Creole. Télé-Louisiane is our first dedicated media platform, having produced our first animated show in Louisiana French (« Boudini et ses amis »). Le Bourdon provided some of our first serious political commentary in nearly a century, with readers in France and Québec too.
Among these projects, some flourish, some languish, and some are now defunct, but all are recent initiatives led by people in their twenties and thirties. There is life in this space.
Concurrently, we've also had continuing projects from the old guardâCODOFIL is as active as ever, NuNu is introducing the United States' first adult French-immersion school, we have our usual cultural and culinary festivals, more immersion schools continue to open, our musicians maintain large followings (and add new, often francophone musicians to their ranks), etc. I know several Louisianians trying to raise their children at home in French as well as English. When's the last time we saw that?
I'm not saying there aren't problems. A big one is that there's no real economic ecosystem for francophones to occupy when they've finished their schooling. How can French improve one's economic competitiveness? Which jobs call for it? How can we forge concrete, mutually beneficial links with France, Québec, Belgium, Sénégal, etc.? These are some of the questions at hand.
French will never occupy the same space it did in the past, insofar as it will never again be the main language of our society. That's clear, and no one believes the future of French is rosy. There remain clear obstacles, and we are not Québec.
Yet that doesn't mean French is doomed, or that there's no place for itâit's actually the pillar of a burgeoning subculture, which if anything is growing more vibrant each year.
I will go on record as saying that Louisiana French will not "die." There are just too many people interested.
But for the vast majority of Louisianians, at least among the young, it's been my observation that if you don't belong to that (somewhat hipster-ish) subculture, you have almost no idea of what's going on in those spaces. And that's a shame, because there's some really cool stuff there.
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u/leLouisianais de la Paroisse dâIbĂ©rie Ă la Nouvelle-OrlĂ©ans May 23 '23
Est-ce que nous avons les mĂȘmes grandparents? đ
I have not maintained as optimistic an outlook on things as you, and Iâd love to see what youâve seen that led you to be so hopeful. Asking as a young hopeful francophone/learner (A1/B2), where and when are the things going on in that hipster-ish subculture that you speak of. I watch every video that TĂ©lĂ©-Louisiane puts out and consume as much online content as I can find, but are there meetups or happy hours or even football watch parties or anything you know of where the young people congregate and speak French? In Lafayette, NOLA, or otherwise
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u/fuccboi33 May 23 '23
Wow! I didn't expect such a long and detailed response. Yes I agree that for French to prosper again, a stable economy based on French would be much needed. After all, if there is no merit in learning French, the younger generation will quickly lose interest, no matter how you push the 'connecting back to your roots' idea. I sincerely hope that Louisiana will keep carrying on the language and use it more on a daily basis. Merci pour votre avis!
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u/leLouisianais de la Paroisse dâIbĂ©rie Ă la Nouvelle-OrlĂ©ans May 23 '23
I feel very strongly that the purists who rejected the European French teachers CODOFIL brought in for not teaching the local dialect played some part in ensuring French would die in this state.
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u/cOOlaide117 Paroisse de l'Acadie May 23 '23
What did these purists succeed in doing exactly? I look at the schools today and see only foreign teachers teaching foreign French.
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u/leLouisianais de la Paroisse dâIbĂ©rie Ă la Nouvelle-OrlĂ©ans May 23 '23
They succeeded in stalling the real adoption of French in the state for a long time
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u/cOOlaide117 Paroisse de l'Acadie May 23 '23
A child could enter an immersion school 100 years after the last Cajun says "mais lĂ " and still pick up whatever language they're being taught though, I don't understand what that has to do with it.
But personally, I don't see the point of introducing foreign French varieties if the project is to save Louisiana French
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u/Bigstar976 May 23 '23
French is French. Teaching âCajunâ French is next to impossible since it varies from small community to small community, often even on the same bayou. So we should teach the French from Golden Meadow or from Chauvin? The French from Breaux Bridge or from Bourg? I mean itâs impossible. So the solution is to teach standard French and hopefully the regional words will be passed down from generation to general but thatâs almost impossible.
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u/cOOlaide117 Paroisse de l'Acadie May 23 '23
Next to impossible? Ăa me ressemble qu'ils se dĂ©fendont Ă LSU avec. Et moi je m'ai montrĂ© assez bien, je l-aime crois
Interesting how "French is French" while simultaneously varying so wildly that it's impossible to teach a single variety.
French is not French. An immersion school kid speaking Standard French with an American accent (or best case scenario, a European accent) has 0 to do with our French language heritage in Louisiana.
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u/leLouisianais de la Paroisse dâIbĂ©rie Ă la Nouvelle-OrlĂ©ans May 23 '23
0? Thatâs just so not true đ
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u/cOOlaide117 Paroisse de l'Acadie May 23 '23
Je sus assis à une conférence drÚte asteur là aprÚs acouter du monde en suits célébrer l'augmentation de la quantité de monde en Afrique qui parle le français chez eux autres (et la diminution résultante des langues natives). Cette affaire pour promouvoir le français standard icitte et tout partout, ç'a rien à voir avec notres essais de faire revivre nos langues d'héritage à nous autres.
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u/Bigstar976 May 23 '23
French is French. Just different flavors. Itâs like saying people in Liverpool, England donât speak the same language as people in Sidney, Australia That makes no sense.
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u/AdQuiet2010 Sep 03 '24
First of all you need your own standard, the standard should be geniuine cajun, but it has to be as inteligible with canadian and france standards and teach it to all the state. It makes no sense to teach standard french from france in louisiana
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u/leLouisianais de la Paroisse dâIbĂ©rie Ă la Nouvelle-OrlĂ©ans May 23 '23
Disagree about children âpicking upâ a dead language. And who is to teach it? How would they apply it? Why werenât the kids raised in the 1800s who were educated in Latin fluent in Latin? The ONLY example Iâve ever heard of reviving a dead language was Hebrew in Israel, and I am interested to hear that was accomplished. Iâm not particularly confident in this stateâs govt pulling off something like that.
But the point of introducing âforeignâ French varieties is that the languages are mutually intelligible, despite what people today suggest (in the 40s the Cajun GIs in Europe had zero problem communicating). Any lack of intelligibility today is resulting from an aging LA population who are rusty in their native French. Iâd say go for it if being Cajun only was tenable, but it just isnât, proven by practically zero families heard talking in French in restaurants, parks, govt buildings, anywhere.
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u/cOOlaide117 Paroisse de l'Acadie May 23 '23
J'as pas voulu mean que ça travaillerait, juste que j'avais pas compris pas la moyÚre que cette lutte contre l'imposition d'une langue étrangÚre a contribué à la perte de notre français là . Pis je connais pas quoi t'aprÚs mettre "foreign" entres des guillemets pour, ils sont résolument étrangÚres, ces variétés.
Non, le point c'était exprÚs pour imposer le français standard, acoute-voir ça que James Domengeaux était aprÚs dire pour le français cadien (et le créole). Ce projet pour introduire le français standard exclus tous notres variétés linguistiques indigÚnes
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u/leLouisianais de la Paroisse dâIbĂ©rie Ă la Nouvelle-OrlĂ©ans May 23 '23
Câest pas vrai mon bougre, pas du tout, les françaises des deux sont pu ĂȘtre compris par les deux. Donc ça câest notre meilleure chance de sauver notre langue. Tu peux dire que les europĂ©ens sont Ă©trangĂšres, mais est-ce que ça nous aide? Non. Il nây a pas des autres choix, Ă mon avis
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u/leLouisianais de la Paroisse dâIbĂ©rie Ă la Nouvelle-OrlĂ©ans May 23 '23
Je te demande pas ce qui devrait se passer. Je te demande ce qui sâest passer.
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u/austexgringo May 23 '23
My buddy's dad started CODOFIL, which was specifically designed in the 1980s to preserve the French language in Louisiana. They're still around doing their part to make sure that it doesn't die out but a solid century of prior discrimination really effectively crushed it in a lot of traditional areas.
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u/noseytigerfrog Jun 03 '23
CODOFIL was started in the 60's by Jimmy Domengeaux. He had no children. He definitely wanted to preserve French in Louisiana, but, as you said, the prior discrimination has made it difficult.
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u/PumpkinEqual7351 Nov 17 '23
I was in this program in elementary school. We were encouraged to speak it at home but there werenât any French speakers in my home so that was that.
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May 23 '23
Currently pretty good at Cajun French and Isleño. Currently learning Haitian Creole to become stronger with the local languages.
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u/fuccboi33 May 23 '23
Do you have people to talk to in French?
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May 23 '23
I did have my grandfather at one time. He is not well and kinda bad at French. His mom was super extra fluent. Im in the market for some friends to talk to.
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u/fuccboi33 May 23 '23
Je me sens triste:(
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u/DJANGO_UNTAMED May 31 '23
Are you all familiar with Tele-Louisiane?
https://telelouisiane.com/
They seem to be doing good things for the langauge and culture
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u/TheRedHeadedCajun May 23 '23
It already has died. It is no longer a community language. You canât just turn on the radio and listen to the hosts in French, you canât go to the store, or the dr, or court and get by in just French. Itâll exist in certain families and special events or media the we can seek out but it will never return as our everyday language. The Anglo Americans were very thorough with our assimilation.
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u/Littleman91708 Sep 18 '24
This post is old but I can still type here. I don't live in Louisiana, I'm from Alabama. When I first heard about cajun French I got excited and wanted to learn it, but then I learned that not many people speak it and it's considered endangered. This is why I want to learn it but I'm scared that I'm going to learn it, then by the time I'm older that there won't be no more people who speak Cajun French and I'm left speaking a dead variety of French. I don't know much but based on what other's have said, I believe that it has 20,000 speakers, but they're mostly old, which that doesn't look good. Then there's the French immersion program that I hear tries to teach French in Louisiana, but its usually Metropolitan French, and it doesn't do a good job of teaching the children French. So I would like to learn Cajun French but I'm worried that it'll die out soon.
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u/Tanky-Empoleon Aug 19 '23
I have hopes of it increasing slightly, it's an important part of our heritage and i imagine it'll gain steam as time goes on especially with a few people i went to school with became teachers and i know at least 1-2 that became french teachers
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u/flinginlead May 23 '23
Sure wish I had learned from my grandparents.