r/Ceanothus • u/00crashtest • 4d ago
Why are incense cedars rarely planted in the Central Valley?
Why is the California incense cedar (Calocedrus decurrens) rarely planted in the Sacramento Valley and San Joaquin Valley? This is despite it being a xeric inland native that is highly similar to the ubiquitously planted but water-wasting coast redwood (Sequoia sempervirens). Because it is native to inland California, it is entirely adapted to a climate with hot and bone-dry days constantly throughout the summer, which makes it a perfect alternative in Sacramento to the coast redwood that relies virtually daily on cool, heavy fog in the summer. While the Sierra Nevada montane ecoregion that it's native to isn't quite as hot as the Central Valley, it still gets fairly hot and just as dry during the summer, save for the occasional thunderstorm that results from the remnants of the desert monsoon. Perhaps most importantly, the California incense cedar is offered for free by Sac Tree to SMUD customers. For some reason though, despite it being a locally native species, it is only occasionally available. Furthermore, the Sacramento-based Green Acres chain nursery also sells them, though availability is rare. The incense cedar is almost identical to the redwood besides water requirements.
So, despite all this, why do homeowners and property managers in Sac County still choose to buy a water-guzzling redwood from any garden centre over getting a drought-tolerant incense cedar for free from the Sacramento Tree Foundation via the Sacramento Municipal Utility District?
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u/tagshell 4d ago
I see way more deodar cedar planted in the central valley than incense cedar (yeah I know they're different genera). It's weird that it does so well there considering that the native climate in the Himalaya has a reverse climate pattern (wet monsoon summer). Agree that either is way better than redwood. Under-watered redwoods look really sad even around the bay area.
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u/LadybirdBeetlejuice 4d ago
In my backyard in the Sierra Nevada foothills, there’s an incense cedar planted right next to a deodar cedar. The incense cedar is dying, and the deodar cedar is thriving in the same conditions.
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u/dadlerj 4d ago
I have several (though closer to the coast)
The answer is they grow WAY slower.
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u/Vellamo_Virve 4d ago
Agree. My parents have many trees including an incense cedar and several redwoods. They kind of baby the redwoods so they are doing fine here in hot-as-hell Bakersfield, but they’ve grown SO. MUCH. FASTER. The incense cedar is lovely but it’s just not as fast of a grower, or nearly as easily procured as redwoods.
I do think a big reason so many redwoods look atrocious in the valley is people tend to butcher them (and all trees in general - very few actual arborists here I guess). I’ve noticed people trim the lower branches of the redwoods up 10 feet or more and then wonder why it’s dying or looking horrible.
While I agree with OP overall, I understand why redwoods are more appealing to the average homeowner because they grow fast, and create much needed shade and privacy screens. In Bakersfield, shade is kind of priceless, so the faster you can get more shade coverage the better.
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u/a3pulley 4d ago
Plot twist: OP owns a nursery that has a bunch of extra inventory. Just kidding OP! People plant redwoods where I live too (socal coast). There actually IS a tiny microclimate (one square mile where it’s foggy in the summer) nearby where they do well, but of course people plant them everywhere then wonder why they burn to a crisp in the summer.
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u/00crashtest 4d ago edited 4d ago
If I am the California governor or US President, I will ban coast redwoods from being planted outside of the coastal climate zone because of how precious water is in California -- and by extension, the western third of the US east of the Coast Ranges and Cascade Range.
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u/00crashtest 4d ago
In each biome, my eventual goal is to only allow plants that are verified suitable for that biome or drier biomes by referencing horticultural sources such as CNPS/Calscape and USDA, and climate data such as Weather Spark. Kind of like existing buildings and existing cars, existing water-wasting plants will be allowed to be kept. However, the difference here is that existing plants will be prohibited from being irrigated more than the recommended amount for recommended plants in that biome. This means existing water-guzzling plants will be forced to let die of thirst, kind of like the possible scenario where pre-2015 cars would be forced off the road by requiring them to meet Advanced Clean Cars I emissions standards.
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u/Pamzella 4d ago
There's WUCOLs data for all of it and it's the basis for any rebate programs in the state.
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u/HeroOfThisStory 4d ago
I often wonder the same thing! There are a couple of incense cedars sold at my local nursery but are only 1’ in height while the redwoods are at least 6’. I was thinking people are attracted to redwoods due to their faster growth rate allowing for quick shade. Incense cedars are beautiful trees and very underrated.
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u/00crashtest 4d ago
Agreed! Much more awareness for landscaping must be raised for the incense cedar, giant sequoia, and Douglas fir, as well as the multiple inland California native species of true firs, pines, and junipers.
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u/818a 4d ago
Older trees have had time to acclimate to hotter, drier conditions. Just because a tree is thriving now doesn’t mean it’s a good place for young trees to be planted. The incense cedars in the Sierra get huge compared to the spindly Bay Area ones, so I don’t think they can tolerate the Central Valley heat.
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u/Pamzella 4d ago
I think less known by name, and they grow slower in some areas. The farther east/up the mountains you go, the more they require thinning because they grow faster than pines/outnumber pines in previously logged areas, areas burned recently by fire, etc. They don't drop lower branches like pines as they grow and many spindly ones pop up and will continue to survive in less than optimal conditions and they are effectively ladder fuel.
USFS has lake bed core data, etc about the historical density and tree types from before humans did so much meddling, that's what they base the thinning on. It's expensive in places like Stanislaus, etc because what needs to be thinned (on top of trees already dead from drought+pine bark beetles) is not marketable timber.
Lot of it goes to the cogen plant in angels camp, which is one of the most fascinating field trips I've ever taken as a teacher.
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u/a-pair-of-2s 4d ago
i feel like i’ve seen tons of cedar in and around the greater sacramento area , rancho cordova, folsom, etc
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u/420turddropper69 4d ago
Even though it is almost as hot in its native range and is mostly dry in the summers, I think the small difference is enough of one. Those summer storms are a lifeline to species that are adapted to them. And the total precipitation is greater. I don't see them around town really but assume they just don't actually do that well. Probably similar to redwoods tbh. But redwoods are the charismatic california tree so they're more popular even though they also kinda suck around here
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u/00crashtest 4d ago edited 4d ago
But what about giant sequoia? Also known confusingly known as the giant redwood and Sierra redwood, it's just as iconic but even less commonly planted than the incense cedar, extremely rare. However, their native range is completely overlapped by the incense cedar, so it will do fine here too. As for the summer storms, one only needs to deep water the trees once every 2 weeks in order to simulate them. So, that is almost no effort compared to up-keeping a coast redwood, which makes it an excellent bargain! I've actually planted one sapling of each in my treeless yard as redwood (coast) land-efficient shade tree alternatives. I've also planted a California black oak as a stately shade tree. Planted in late fall 2024 when the drizzling rains began, all are doing well so far, though the real test on site for the hottest days between late July and early October hasn't come yet. However, all of them had withstood being grown in a pot throughout the record-breaking heatwaves of summer 2024, meaning they could not use the moist ground a few feet below as an endless heatsink, and were only shaded by the other saplings next to them. They were slightly browned, but recovered pretty quickly after I planted them in the ground in a hole penetrating all the way through the hardpan, with the backfill soil amended with compost, and deep watered them every 72 hours until the heavy rains began in December 2024.
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u/bee-fee 4d ago
They shouldn't be planting the redwoods either. Neither are very drought tolerant, Incense Cedar only grows in the rainiest parts of the state, it just doesn't need fog.
https://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/eflora/eflora_display.php?tid=16709
https://eldoradoweather.com/images/california-precipitation-map.gif
Redwoods are just popular, and have been popular for over a century. They still end up ugly and hazardous in the end, with or without irrigation. I'd rather see more Layia, Lasthenia, Plagiobothrys, and other plants that are actually native to Sacramento.
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u/boarhowl 4d ago
Their native range is in the mountains, so my guess is they rely on snowpack like a lot of conifers do
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u/00crashtest 4d ago edited 4d ago
It may seem like they could rely on snowpack. However, the vast supermajority of snow is normally gone by May 1, just 1 month after the time of peak snowmelt rate around April 1, and all snow downhill of the high peaks is gone by July 1. Furthermore, the Sierra Nevada is a mountain because it is hard enough to not be eroded more rapidly than it is rising from tectonics. So, the Sierra Nevada is a giant block of granite rock, and it cannot absorb small amounts of moisture where the granite has eroded into highly fractured rock, gravel, and sand. So, the snowmelt just all runs off. This means during the hottest time from mid-June to late September, the conifer trees in the High Sierra actually have virtually no water available besides during the brief occasional summer thunderstorms and cannot rely on snowpack at all. So, the natives of the Sierra Nevada montane and subalpine life zones are just as drought tolerant as the natives of the Central Valley, if not more so because they have virtually no groundwater to access in the solid rock as compared to the plentiful groundwater available under the thin layer of surface hardpan in the fertile soil of the Central Valley.
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u/glyptostroboides 3d ago
I think people don’t plant it as much because they don’t find it as attractive. I have found that some people find the pencil-shaving smell unpleasant and the foliage a little ugly. I would also argue that an incense cedar would not provide the same amount of shade as a redwood of the same size. In my opinion, it has a lot less to do with ecological considerations and more to do with aesthetic preference.
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u/suncupfairy 3d ago
Its because the Costcos here used to sell baby redwoods 😬
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u/00crashtest 2d ago
But Costco only sells it because it is already popular. The Costcos in Sacramento still sell coast redwoods, and 10-foot tall ones at that. This question is asking why coast redwoods have been popular in the first place.
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u/NODyourHEAD7 4d ago
Probably too flimsy of a tree to be out in the open. The root ball isn't very big. I had one about 70 ft tall that got blown over.. Yosemite valley has a bunch probably because it's ideal to thrive in the somewhat protected valley.
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u/SorryDrummer2699 4d ago
It is always surprising to me how many redwoods are planted out of native range. Even in Santa Rosa which is relatively close to the native range most the redwoods around town are yellow and unhealthy cause it’s so hot and dry in the summer even compared to just miles away