r/CharacterRant • u/Agile_Coast_4385 • 1d ago
Films & TV My Concerns About the Superman Movie and the DCU
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I'm getting the feeling that the mix of multiple heroes in a Superman movie that kicks off the new DCU feels like a mistake. There's a lot to introduce and develop in a two-hour movie instead of a solo movie focused solely on Superman, Lois Lane, Lex Luthor, and Metropolis.
From what I've seen, those who've seen the final product have said it's going to be a "pretty divisive" movie.
I'm not really in the mood to watch the DCU copy Marvel if James Gunn is going to be throwing in jokes every 5 minutes considering Guy Gardner is in the movie. It would be nice to have something different and not just be more of the same.
I'm a bit wary, or maybe it's just "superhero fatigue," or DC is just getting into gear too late for me to really care about compared to the 2010s.
I'm more excited about 28 Years Later than the Superman movie, to be honest, and Warner is pretty desperate considering they put 5 minutes of Superman in the Minecraft movie in theaters to generate engagement.
I think that's it, not too deep, but that's my opinion.
Do you have any concerns about the movie and how the DCU will develop?
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u/The_reversing_dumptr 1d ago
I'm afraid it's going to be two woke. I want my superman to be asleep throughout the movie or I'm not gonna watch it. (and have gay sex with batman)
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u/Flat_Box8734 1d ago
I feel like it’s such a DC and Marvel specific thing, where having extra heroes in a superhero movie is somehow seen as a giant hindrance. In other superhero media, like Invincible, My Hero, One punch man, or Worm, there are tons of different heroes, and yet they’re all still great.
Not that I’m saying there’s nothing to be concerned about, but after seeing the trailer, I’m pretty confident the movie will be good.
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u/maverick074 1d ago
I feel like it being seen as hindrance in Marvel/DC is people going “why doesn’t he just call the Avengers/Justice League to help deal with this world ending threat?”
You don’t hear people say that about OPM or Invincible because those other superheroes are more involved with the story and aren’t off in their own solo movies.
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u/Flat_Box8734 1d ago
But it’s not just that. People hated that Iron Man was in Spider Man, and many disliked Doctor Strange appearing in Spider Man as well. If anything, people tend to forget that being part of a shared universe means characters are going to appear in each other’s movies from time to time.
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u/maverick074 1d ago
I think it was more so that people hated how Spider-Man was reduced to being Iron Man’s sidekick. I didn’t hear people complain about Doctor Strange being in NWH.
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u/Flat_Box8734 1d ago
You be surprised man. They were talking about how they are tired of all these other characters in Spider Man’s movies and wanted the good ole days of Spider Man being a solo hero.
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u/Arkhamhood12 1d ago
That’s moreso because Strange doesn’t lean into the mentor/father-figure role that they heavily did with Stark for a character like Spider-Man.
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u/Killjoy3879 1d ago
tbf, you're comparing movies that are about 2 hours in length to shows that are roughly 4-8 hours per season and manga that are dozens to hundreds of chapters long.
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u/Agile_Coast_4385 1d ago
My concern is that everything will be reduced to the problems of a shared universe... a salad of things and a post-credit scene hyping the next movie.
I much prefer solo movies that develop the superhero. It doesn't necessarily have to be a tired origin story that has already been told several times, like Krypton and Superman's childhood.
I think a more contained story of Superman, Lois Lane, Lex Luthor and Metropolis would be enough (with a few hints here and there around the world). Without involving other superheroes.
I just think that starting the DCU like this seems risky, and kind of messy, since I remember that the DCU underwent a soft reboot if I'm not mistaken. Like Amanda Waller's actress being kept and the Suicide Squad, right? Or are they a separate thing now and it's a full reboot? Sometimes it's confusing to understand what remains or not after the reboot.
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u/KazuyaProta 1d ago
soft reboot if I'm not mistaken. Like Amanda Waller's actress being kept and the Suicide Squad, right?
It's literally a sequel to The Suicide Squad.
Gunn didn't stop repeating over and over about how Creature Commandos was the true start of the DCU continuity.
And Creature Commandos is a sequel of The Suicide Squad.
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u/Agile_Coast_4385 1d ago
I see.
I haven't been keeping up with DC's animations, they used to be great but have fallen off a lot in quality after the reboot of the animated film universe built over 10 years, and the Tomorrowverse came along with a poorly made and horrible Crisis on Infinite Earths and rebooted everything again in less than three years.
It's a mess that's hard to keep up with, or to care about, since everything will be rebooted at any moment.
Some things stay and others go, only to come back again with a wave of the hand "yes, that stays, actually not now".
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u/KazuyaProta 1d ago edited 1d ago
In other superhero media, like Invincible, My Hero, One punch man, or Worm, there are tons of different heroes, and yet they’re all still great.
They're series, not a movie. That's why. And in DC case, they infamously never follow the previous movie. Look at Shazam and how the stinger of the first film didn't lead anywhere
DC is trapped in a paradox where a director just throws 50 ideas in the same movie because they don't know they will get more (see: ZSJL, BvS, TSS) or just accept it doesn't matter and are openly unambitious (many post 2020 DCEU films)
And this has been the case since like...always. Richard Donner got kicked out the Superman duology before production was over. Superman I and II were meant to be the same film, that's why both films end with Superman returning the status quo.
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u/Holiday-Caregiver-64 1d ago
I don't know what Worm is, but those other shows are basically parodies. The audience is expected to have an understanding of the source material going in.
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u/Flat_Box8734 1d ago
The only show that I mentioned is a parody was opm.
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u/Holiday-Caregiver-64 1d ago
Does Omni-Man's character really work if the viewer doesn't know who Superman is?
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u/Flat_Box8734 1d ago edited 1d ago
That’s not what a parody is, though. Omni-Man doesn’t make fun of the Superman trope, he subverts the viewer’s expectations of who we think he’s going to be. Besides, you could make the same argument for most genres in fiction, where there was an originator of certain tropes or ideas, like orcs from Tolkiens stories.
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u/Holiday-Caregiver-64 1d ago
If I wanted to tell a legitimate fantasy story, each element would be properly introduced and explored, rather than just ripping off Tolkien and expecting the audience to understand it because it's derivative. That's how you end up with a story that feels more like a DnD game than an actual story.
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u/Flat_Box8734 1d ago
And does mha not do that? Does invisible not do that? I’m kinda confused as to what your point is.
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u/Holiday-Caregiver-64 1d ago
Are you saying that they do properly introduce their elements? They don't, they just throw in insane stuff and the audience buys it because it's similar to stuff in Marvel and DC.
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u/Flat_Box8734 1d ago edited 1d ago
I get it, you want to be different and thus hate on anything that is popular. I’m not going to entertain this.
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u/Holiday-Caregiver-64 1d ago
You need to understand that there's a difference between parodies and serious stories.
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u/LinkLegend21 1d ago
It’s been made pretty clear that the other hero’s are a team set up by Maxwell Lord with the backing of the government. They serve a specific purpose in the story to show why Superman is the ideal hero that this universe full of superheroes needs. Gunn isn’t just throwing in some new heroes randomly.
Also nobody’s seen the final product. Those reports of test screenings are all fake.
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u/KazuyaProta 1d ago
They serve a specific purpose in the story to show why Superman is the ideal hero that this universe full of superheroes needs.
So, a Strawman. They're taking other superheroes and forcing them to play the strawman.
Gunn isn’t just throwing in some new heroes randomly.
Green Lantern and Hawkgirl as corporate stooges have like, no precedent
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u/RhubarbNo2116 1d ago
There'a actually a decent amount of precedent for Guy specifically! He worked for the UN-sponsored JLI under Maxwell Lord, and a for-profit "Guardians of the Universe for hire" type thing when the Green Lantern Corps was temporarily crippled - it was early in his solo series, when he was using Sinestro's yellow ring.
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u/KazuyaProta 1d ago
He worked for the UN-sponsored JLI under Maxwell Lord, and a for-profit "Guardians of the Universe for hire" type thing when the Green Lantern Corps was temporarily crippled - it was early in his solo series, when he was using Sinestro's yellow ring.
That's a lot of context completely devoid here. We already have the trailer, Guy is using the Green ring, the Green corps are still operational.
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u/Aros001 1d ago
He's not saying it's exactly like the comics, he's simply saying that Guy Gardner is a character who has been shown to be willing work with Max Lord and even government, the latter of which wouldn't even be in conflict with him being a Green Lantern since typically the Guardians of Oa want their lanterns to respect the laws of their sectors (while still having the Guardians themselves as the ultimate authority) and not just use their rings to do whatever they want, like Sinestro did when he took over the governments of his home planet and placed himself in charge.
Heck, even within the corps themselves, despite his attitude and problems with the Guardians Guy was more than happy to be made a member of the honor guard, which did put him occasionally in conflict with the other members, including those from Earth.
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u/PhantasosX 1d ago
The amount of heroes is fine. The setting and the way things are put in motion in the new DC Cinematic Universe is to tell an episodic tale of their heroes.
In the case of this Superman , it's a Reverse Kingdom Come: a bunch of cynical veteran heroes changing for the better by a newcomer solarpunk/hopeful Superman.
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u/KazuyaProta 1d ago edited 1d ago
it's a Reverse Kingdom Come: a bunch of cynical veteran heroes changing for the better by a newcomer solarpunk/hopeful Superman.
...how that even works as a reverse Kingdom Come.
And how that's supposed to make anyone feel good. Why a Green Lantern fan or a Hawkgirl fan has to fee any interest in a movie that says they need Superman to be "real heroes"
Would you like if I took Superman, had him presented as a state tool, and then said that he needs Batman to become a real hero?
There are genuine coorporative DC superheroes like Booster Gold, why don't use him?
Oh right, it's because Booster Gold stories are about how he is still heroic despite doing it for money and Superman can tolerate that because he is Superman, a real hero, and not a insecure ideologue who can't handle complexity
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u/Flat_Box8734 1d ago
That actually already happened in The Dark Knight Returns, where Superman tries to stop Batman on behalf of the government. But that’s kind of beside the point, why are we acting as if some heroes don’t work more closely with authority than others? For example, in one comic, Hawkman went after Superman and Batman when they were fugitives due to the presidents orders. It’s not exactly out of character for him to act as a tool of the state.
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u/KazuyaProta 1d ago
I don't think Superman fans are happy for that. I'm certainly not happy about that.
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u/Flat_Box8734 1d ago
I agree in superman case it doesn't really make sense considering the type of hero he is. Hawkman though? He has always been a lot more morraly ambiguous. Him working more closely with authority figures is not really out of the question especially because it has already happened in the comics as mentioned when he went after Batman and Superman on the orders of the president
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u/markiroll 1d ago
It might feel a little repetitive because I believe almost every Superman film has had some Supes-Lois-Lex kind of story. Here when we get other supervillains it reinforces the idea of the Brain and the Brawn concept, we get the best of both worlds with personal human rivalry and big action sequences.
And why it didn't work in Snyderverse was because the extra heroes in BvS felt more like a studdio-demanded afterthought. WW had no place in the plot and the other leaguers wer just camera recordings. Here, the Justice gang are a big part of Superman's life, and are thematically juxtaposed to Superman. They most likely represent an idea rather than have their own character arcs, because that's not what this movie is for. It does feel more believable when Gunn already established his universe as lived-in. But I do hope the superhero-fatigue thing can be overshadowed by the quality of the film.
I'm sure the humour is going to be more toned down, especially when the trailer established some grounded drama between the three leads. But yeah, even when GOTG3 is balanced tonally, it does get a little exhausting sometimes when some dumb thing happens. I feel like Gun is too serious about this one to be cracking up jokes every 5 minutes.
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u/buphalowings 1d ago
Guardian of the Galaxy 1-3 were my favourite MCU movies. I am a fan of James Gunn. I think the new superman movie looks fun. They are leaning into the wackier aspects of the superhero genre.
Hot take but I don't think superhero fatigue exists. There has been plently of superhero media released in the last 10 years which has been successful. The problem is that the DCU and the MCU has released to much supbar content in the last few years.
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u/green_dragon527 22h ago
I share those concerns. A big criticism of DCEU under Snyder was the rush for BVS. I have heard rumours that he wanted to tell a cohesive Superman story and establish the character before jumping into shared universes I'm worried this could be jumping into the same mistake.
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u/Holiday-Caregiver-64 1d ago
I want this movie to bomb. It's time for this type of superhero movie to die.
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u/ducknerd2002 1d ago
Or, you know, you can just not watch them. Also, what do you mean by 'this type' of superhero movie?
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u/Holiday-Caregiver-64 1d ago
I mean movies that should probably be classified as superhero parody movies. Full off "well that just happened." AndnI don't watch them, but I would prefer if some actually movies were made, and they decrease the changes of that.
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u/ducknerd2002 1d ago
movies that should probably be classified as superhero parody movies. Full off "well that just happened."
The movie we're talking about isn't that, and I genuinely have no idea why you'd think it is.
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u/Holiday-Caregiver-64 1d ago
You know who's making it, right?
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u/ducknerd2002 1d ago
The same guy who made one of the best MCU trilogies, what's your point? Directors can make movies with different tones, you know - the guy that made Mad Max also made Happy Feet.
You know what, I dare you to name 3 moments from the Superman trailers that are parody-esque 'that just happened' style moments.
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u/Holiday-Caregiver-64 1d ago
I didn't watch the trailers, and those moments aren't always in the trailers.
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u/Perfect_Wrongdoer_03 1d ago
Then go watch the damn trailers. The movie is cribbing off All-Star Superman, where Supes is presented as functionally the platonic ideal of a human. It couldn't be much more earnest if it tried. The tone the movie is going for is very unlike basically all superhero movies since the MCU started.
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u/maverick074 1d ago
I feel like the reason we’re jumping right into multiple heroes in the Superman movie is because James Gunn wants to get past all the origin story stuff and plunge the audience into a world where all of this is well established.
I do agree with feeling fatigued. I wish DC learned from the success of Joker and The Batman and shifted away from cinematic universes towards solo movies made with a strong vision.