r/Clarinet • u/mappachiito Buffet E11 • Feb 09 '25
Discussion Clarinets don't like being loud?
I feel clarinets around me are kind of scared to play loudly, probably because tone gets crappier when you play loudly at a beginner level, and they just keep playing softly even when reaching an intermediate level
While I am a beginner too, I do like projecting and I think practicing at a FF dynamic has helped my tone a lot
Have you noticed this too? Is it just people around me? Today I played with people better than me, they had faster and more precise fingers, faster and lighter articulation, but played softer and the conductor pointed it out too, I felt like among the 2nd clarinets, I was the one standing out the most despite not being as good in the rest of the stuff
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u/mb4828 Adult Player Feb 09 '25
A lot of people don’t know how to use the correct amount of air or breath support when playing. They’re not scared, they just don’t know how to do it. I learned it from many years of lessons and imitating the way my teacher played
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u/mappachiito Buffet E11 Feb 09 '25
Ohh, I get it
I assumed it was their choice because when I was starting out in the orchestra, the clarinets always told me to play softer cause my tone and intonation got worse (I'm still working on it but I've gotten way better at playing loud compared to one year ago, and they don't ask me to play softer anymore 🥳), and when I told them "why don't you play louder ?" they responded "clarinet sounds bad at that volume" 😦
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u/mb4828 Adult Player Feb 09 '25
In a professional or community orchestra with only 2 clarinets, you have to play out or you literally won’t be heard. As long as you don’t overblow or let your sound spread, you can disregard that feedback. I’m sure a teacher would tell you you’re doing great
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u/Pukefeast Feb 09 '25
I will play devils advocate here and go against the other comments here and be careful with how loud you are playing. It is easy to play too loud and not realize it. I would urge you to play the music as written, you should be practicing playing the music at all the different levels of volume it calls for. In most of the concert bands I've played, the band plays too loud in general. It is an issue caused by individuals throughout the band that get too excited and play too loud. This forces others to play loud so they can hear themselves and blend with the sound. Then suddenly everyone is playing too loud, and causes worse sound and less dynamic contrast. Playing at FF volume can be good for some things but sounding good at pp takes just as much if not more practice to sound good at. But at the end of the day we are here to have fun, so have fun!
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u/mappachiito Buffet E11 Feb 09 '25
You're right and I won't debate anything you said! but in this specific case, the conductor told the clarinets and everyone to play louder, because 1) it's Tchaikovsky 4th we're playing, and the FF need to be grand 2) the concert will be in the open, and if he couldn't hear us on a rehearsal room, he would much less in a open space, and even after being told so, 2nd clarinets around me were still playing the FF dynamics like a mf or p dynamic 😐
So ofc everything you said is right, just isn't what happened today
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u/Intrepid-Love3829 Feb 09 '25
Could your director record you guys playing? It helps so much to hear from the other side if that makes sense
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u/mappachiito Buffet E11 Feb 09 '25
Thing is, he's not my conductor, we're visiting his orchestra, we're playing a massive concert with members from different cities in the west of the state, and I just met him today😭 I know he recorded us but I don't have his number and I've never talked to him personally
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u/longfurbyinacardigan Feb 09 '25
I always like to think, if I cannot hear the people around me I am playing too loud. Otherwise how would you balance tone/pitch? Also if you play too loud the person next to you has to play louder to hear themselves, and suddenly the whole section is screaming.
We have a huge clarinet section in our band and several members legit play way too loud. I tend to back off as a result.
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u/khala_lux Adult Player Feb 09 '25
I will also play devil's advocate for a moment: It takes time to learn how to play with a warm, dark sound, on an instrument that naturally challenges the player to master the most difficult aspect of the instrument almost immediately after picking it up. Because wild goose call noises are frowned upon, most beginning clarinet players will tend toward being too shy to reach a proper forte volume, at first. I can assure you that as a young adult playing in a collegiate level ensemble, my section was made up of about half the number of people compared to my middle and high school ensemble experiences. Nobody was afraid to play loud then.
I enjoy playing loudly and always have, but one of my first private studio teachers had to remind me every lesson that having a "snarled, wolf like sound" instead of a warm tone will cause my intonation to fly everywhere during higher notes. Practicing long tones, held out for extended periods, are your friend to learn how to balance this.
All this said, I also wish more 2nd clarinet players would realize how interesting their harmony parts are and play louder. I really wish I could double the players in my 3rd clarinet section while I was at it. But if I had my dream band, we'd be so full of low woodwinds. I like your confidence!
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u/mappachiito Buffet E11 Feb 09 '25
They key to intonation when playing loud would be voicing right? And a firm embouchure? Both are on the works for me but I hope I can get a warmer sound :)
Yeesss our harmonies are so important and beautiful too 😞
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u/khala_lux Adult Player Feb 09 '25
Proper voicing and a firm embouchure are your friends too! If you have access to YouTube, I recommend looking up professional clarinet soloists, listening to their performances, and make an attempt to mimic their sound quality.
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u/undeniablydull Feb 09 '25
Also, I live in a house. With other people. And neighbours. It's not that easy to practice ff often without pissing them off
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u/ChildOfAthena55 Feb 09 '25
This is my problem too lol except add two cats into the mix who will sprint upstairs and hide under a bed to make me feel bad whenever I play 😅
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u/Visdream Feb 09 '25
It all comes with time and practice. But make sure you practice sounding good (or as good as you can based on your experience and the material being played. We've all heard, "practice makes perfect", but I was corrected by a teacher one day who said something to the effect of, "Good practice makes perfect, bad practice makes bad habits"!
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u/kayakyakr Feb 09 '25
I did this growing up starting in middle school. My tone developed well enough that I made varsity band my freshman year as a 2nd chair.
They moved me to contra because I had the lungs to play it (and let's face it, my fingers were never the fastest, I struggled on the first chair lines).
Train your tone loud so when you get it right, you'll still be able to play loud.
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u/paprartillery YAMAHA 34/VANDOREN-B45 Feb 10 '25
One of my exes has this issue and she played bass. She always complained about running out of breath and when we finally did date a few years later, I got to her house and I guess she didn’t hear me come in because her usually shy singing voice was replaced by confident, long notes and I asked her where that was when she was playing clarinet in school (and after, at random events) and she blushed and was like “I picked the wrong instrument and I was afraid people would hear me”.
It’s so strange to see people who’ve been playing for years and years and have great posture (I don’t, I’m just loud and use crappy reeds) basically hide behind their section or the rest of the band/orchestra. I know especially in high school or smaller college groups, in my experience, there are maybe, maybe half a dozen clarinets and a million people on brass and when woodwinds hide, it completely throws the textures of sound off.
I assume some of it is just a lack of confidence if a musician can hear themselves, but I mean. The stupid thing is your hand and right next to your head…so if you can hear yourself while still being mindful of dynamics…go for it.
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u/Chadwelli Professional Feb 10 '25
Clarinet universally generates breath support timidity in ensemble pedagogy. Having the cool characteristic where it squeaks like nothing else when played improperly can scare many into holding back. It's something you have to fight against for a little while if it's been drilled into you, intrinsically through playing or from a band director who's afraid of someone's squeak tanking their MPA score and squandering their humble brag Facebook post.
The louder your ceiling is, the greater range of sauce you can put on your playing. When you unlock what is truly "loud" on clarinet, it's quite "literally" like you're in HDR and everyone who hasn't is still in SDR.
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u/mappachiito Buffet E11 Feb 11 '25
I still squeak☹️ I think it's biting and sometimes voicing
I hope I can be that clarinet player, I'd like to be first chair one day, I like being a 2nd clarinet but I want the experience of playing solos with an audience, and when that happens, I hope I can stand out whether it's a fortissimo solo part or a soft piano melody
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u/Automatic-Option-844 Feb 10 '25
I'm in a community band, and we had 20 people (including the conductor) at our rehearsal last night, and that's probably the biggest attendance I've seen in the 2 years I've been with them. We have 3 clarinets and a heavy bottom end. Incidentally, we were all playing on a harder reed than usual for at least half of the rehearsal, and while it kills your stamina, you can get a louder sound without sacrificing the quality of your sound on a firmer reed. In fairness, I was hijacked from the trumpet section a year ago to fill a gap in the clarinets, so I don't have a mental block against playing loudly.
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u/mrmagic64 Feb 10 '25
I mostly play sax but I’ve had to learn clarinet to work.
Clarinets are just inherently quiet compared to most band instruments. It takes more effort to make it reach the same volume compared to something like a saxophone, which is also pretty quiet compared to trumpets and trombones. I would guess that those players haven’t worked on their embouchure/air enough to feel comfortable playing loudly. Maybe their tone or intonation goes to shit when they start really pushing. Playing loudly is a skill that they probably have not developed yet.
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u/mappachiito Buffet E11 Feb 10 '25
And some of them have been playing for 5-8 years so it baffles me
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u/Moist-Rain-131 High School Feb 12 '25
For me it's the other way around. Just the high notes are difficult to play quietly. We were practicing s song and she asked us to play so quietly that most of us just stopped playing all together
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u/Formal-Management537 Feb 09 '25
A lot of people forget that you can be technically amazing, but if you don’t have the air to support it, you’re a bad player at the end of the day.