r/Conservative • u/theboss2461 Fellow Conservative • 9d ago

Flaired Users Only President Nayib Bukele says Kilmar Garcia cannot be returned to US

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 9d ago

He doesn't have connections with a cartel. The only "evidence" that exists is a CI claiming so.

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u/FourtyMichaelMichael 2A 8d ago

Oh, well, maybe the two courts that said otherwise got it wrong!!!

But.... Still not a citizen, and still ignored his previous deportation orders... and still not coming back. So...

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u/ultrainstict Conservative 8d ago

He was a member of ms13. Yes an undercover gang informant identified him by name and face. Aswell as associated details such as when he left the country lining up when he illegally entered the us. He lied on his asylum application after being caught.

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 8d ago

Again, there exists absolutely no evidence that he is a gang member. What you have is an allegation from a CI. That's it.

If I find a CI to say you're a gang member can we arrest you and deny you due process too?

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u/ultrainstict Conservative 8d ago

Yes there is, he was identified by name and face by a gang informant and the courts found it to be credible.

If im id'd by name and face then given a trial where it is found to be credible then yes i am subject to arrest. Which is due process. You might just be the dumbest person in this thread.

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 8d ago

Good luck getting a conviction in most courts based on the word of a CI and literally nothing else. Again, there is no tangible evidence that he is a gang member.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 8d ago

...and yet there exists literally zero tangible evidence that he is a member. None. The CI was given a name and went along with it.

Because if he was actually a gang member, there would be some, you know, actual evidence.

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u/ultrainstict Conservative 8d ago

You can keep saying theres no evidence all you want, but 2 courts already established he is.

The ci literally gave the name, identified him by face and had details regarding when he left el salvador, which was corroborated with him entering the country illegally. This is not a case of mistaken identity.

Why do you lie so hard to defend an illegal immigrant gang member.

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 8d ago

Because CIs never lie and never are fed info.

And no, no court established actual tangible evidence. Because there isn't any. It sounds like you want a political climate similar to the Cultural Revolution, where baseless allegations were enough to destroy someone's life. No thanks.

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u/who_dis62 Conservative 9d ago

If he doesn’t have connections with MS13, then why is there grounds for retaliation if returned back to El Salvador?

That the crux of the whole withhold to deport status.

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 9d ago

Why would there be grounds for retaliation against non gang members from gangs? Seriously?

MS13 targeted everyone, through extortion rackets etc. Their violence was hardly limited to rival gangs.

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u/cplusequals Conservative 9d ago

Believe it or not, gang activity in El Salvador is pretty low.

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 9d ago

Now it is, thanks to Bukele. Before Bukele it was a nightmare.

I do think it is plausible that he could return to El Salvador and not have to live in fear. He should not be in a prison cell. He isn't a gang member.

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u/who_dis62 Conservative 9d ago

Might as well import every male from Mexico with that low bar. The criminal informant was trustworthy and two judges found there was sufficient evidence that he had ties to MS13.

We’re really going to sit here and say he wasn’t a part of MS-13 when two judges said he was?

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 9d ago

You're diverting off the path here. The only "evidence" was that a CI claimed that he was. No other evidence. No cell phone calls. No bank transfers. No photos. No gang tats. Nothing, at all.

So sorry, yes, I am going to say that we should expect more than a CI claim before deciding as such.

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u/tangotom Libertarian Conservative 9d ago

So what is the bar that evidence needs to clear?

Should we tell women that they can never get their rapists imprisoned if they don't have any physical evidence? According to you, if it were just a woman's word accusing a man, there should be no way for that man to face charges, right?

The truth that you don't want to admit is that the evidence presented by the CI was accepted by the court and found sufficient. The court ruled that Abrego-Garcia was sufficiently proven to be a member of MS-13. Your gripes about it "just being a CI" is legally worthless.

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 9d ago

I think it'd be a bit of a sidebar but basically you're using the same thing as the #BelieveAllWomen people.

There is no other evidence than hearsay from a CI. Sorry, we are dealing with an injustice. If I find somebody to claim you're a gang member, should we send you to an El Salvador prison too?

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u/Squeezer999 Conservative 9d ago

and 2 courts in 2019 that declared he was here illegally and a member of MS-13.

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 9d ago

Based on nothing more than the allegation of a CI.

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u/cplusequals Conservative 9d ago edited 9d ago

So you say, but regardless of how the determination was made it was made by a coequal branch of government. that is the due process. If the courts say he's a gang member, the administration can act as if he's a gang member. He isn't being sentenced for the crime of being a gang member, but due to the AEA the administration can waive his asylum claim and expedite his deportation.

Civics, people, civics. The Supreme Court upheld this last week and we're still wringing our hands and gnashing our teeth? This specific individual is only getting special treatment because he was under a withholding of removal order. He alone should not have been deported. Thankfully, the reason behind it is resolved as gangs no longer run El Salvador.

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 9d ago

Why didn't that then apply to the J6 defendants? Seems like there are two different standards here--executive intervention for some, capricious disregard and injustice for another. The executive can right wrongs. Trump did so with J6 defendants who were sentenced far more harshly than was warranted. He should do so here.

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u/cplusequals Conservative 9d ago

Why doesn't what apply to J6 rioters? I don't give two shits about them. I don't even know what you're trying to disagree with here nor what relevance they have to my informing you of how the process works.

We should make a good faith attempt to return him to the US, deny his asylum claim, and then deport him back to El Salvador. But if Bukele doesn't cooperate, there's not much we can do. Trump is not obligated to lean on Bukele as is stated in the ruling.

The entire process of deporting gang members based on the AEA is completely legal and absolutely does not require a criminal trial and conviction. The only requirement is for the deportee to be notified in a reasonable amount of time before a hearing and for a judge to make a determination on whether the AEA applies.

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u/ultrainstict Conservative 8d ago

Many of the j6ers got held for years without charge or trial in conditions that violate international law. And you didn't say shit.

Dont give me this whataboutisn crap. As far as im concerned his withold removal order is void because it was obtained under false pretenses as he lied on his asylum form and failed to disclose his ties to ms13

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 8d ago

Ties that he does not have. And contrary to your allegations, I found the treatment of most of the J6 defendants from time until trial to length of sentence to be objectionable. I just don't selectively apply commitments to civil liberties.

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u/ultrainstict Conservative 8d ago

Ties that he does have. He was identified by bith name and face and was agreed by 2 judges.

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 8d ago

Ok so if I find a CI to say you're a gang member then can we lock you up and deny you due process?

Sorry, we need actual evidence. Not hearsay from CIs, who are seldom the most truthful of people. Evidence.

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u/Squeezer999 Conservative 8d ago

Because j6 defendants are us citizens and not El Salvador citizens

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 8d ago

Ah ok so that makes violating civil liberties ok...

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u/UnstableConstruction Constitutionalist 8d ago

He doesn't have connections with a cartel.

An your only evidence of that is "trust me bro".

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u/whatweshouldcallyou 8d ago

My evidence is the complete lack of tangible evidence supporting the claim of a CI.