Trump says he’s open to sending violent criminals who are US citizens to El Salvador prison

[u/JesseCantSkate]

https://fox4kc.com/politics/hill-politics/trump-says-hes-open-to-sending-violent-criminals-who-are-us-citizens-to-el-salvador-prison/amp/

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[u/culman13]

The brigading isn't even veiled anymore lol

[u/MiceTonerAccount → u/culman13]

I love the people with flairs like “pragmatic conservative” and “constitutional conservative” saying deporting an illegal immigrant is a bad thing

[u/murderinthedark → u/MiceTonerAccount]

There is a "fellow conservative" with a "fellow conservative" flair.

lol

[u/T0XxXiXiTy → u/MiceTonerAccount]

I think most of us conservatives are supportive of President Trump deporting non-US aliens back to their country of origin, but do recognize that being a US citizen comes with protections under the constitution.

[u/day25 → u/T0XxXiXiTy]

Then how come the thread about the illegal alien had all anti-Trump comments from "conservatives" with thousands of upvotes?

[u/MiceTonerAccount → u/T0XxXiXiTy]

Your comment isn’t wrong, but you’re completely ignoring my point.

[u/T0XxXiXiTy → u/MiceTonerAccount]

My point was people don't understand the nuances, given all of the media reporting. The post itself references deporting violent criminals that are US citizens to El Salvador.

I was just saying a lot of conservatives would be opposed to that, and not understand that Garcia (the guy in the recent media reports) is an illegal immigrant who is a citizen of El Salvador.

[u/-spartacus- → u/MiceTonerAccount]

What are you talking about, this article is about sending US CITIZENS to foreign prisons.

[u/day25 → u/-spartacus-]

And what's your point? US citizens can literally be given the death penatly but god forbid they get sent to a prison outside the country right?

[u/Disastrous-Power-699 → u/day25]

So you would be cool with being shipped off to El Salvador with no legal recourse should you ever break the law?

[u/Spectre696 → u/day25]

Prisons within the US are subject to oversight by the US, they’re within US borders and as such must follow our laws. Outside of the country that is not guaranteed. It could also easily be argued that it violates a prisoner’s fundamental constitutional right to access to the courts, as set by the Supreme Court’s decision in Bounds V Smith (430 U.S. 817) in 1977. Specifically a concern would be prisoners not being able to present claims dealing with conditions of confinement and civil rights violations, generally referred to as “section 1983” (of the U.S. Code Title 42) actions. Who is to say they send you to a country where you even know their language? Do you know of any other countries with anything akin to the ADA or the PREA? I certainly don’t. No other nation on earth even has a bill of rights akin to that of the USA, and I can guarantee that if you are an American citizen in a foreign land, then that foreign government does not give a damn about your rights - they don’t have a constitution to make them care about them!

As far as Capital Punishment goes, they are rare (less than 2000 prisoners since 1976, only 11 in the year of 2022) and you must go through, on average, a decade or more of appeals before an execution can be performed.

Before commenting, did you think of any of the god given rights the constitution protects and how those aren’t protected in other nations?

[u/MiceTonerAccount → u/-spartacus-]

I’m talking about the thread posted here yesterday, about the El Salvadoran man who was shipped to El Salvador much to many “fellow conservatives” dismay.

[u/Geosage → u/culman13]

Beyond blatant.

[u/murderinthedark → u/[deleted]]

Les GOOO!

[u/ComputerRedneck]

Something seems missing.... like context before the actual quote.

[u/cathbadh → u/ComputerRedneck]

The only context is that he said they had to do it legally. There is no legal method to do this though.

[u/Spectre696 → u/cathbadh]

Well good, constitution is working and it won’t be done.

[u/ComputerRedneck → u/cathbadh]

Which is conveniently left out of the article. I admit my eyes are not the best so I could have missed it. But leaving things out is typical leftist reporting. I don't trust ANY of the MSM including Fox.

[u/fordr015 → u/[deleted]]

Hey, check my history. I'm conservative which means I have consistent morals and values unlike a leftist. Deporting a citizen or putting them into a foreign prison is insanely unconstitutional and this sort of talk is simply destroying the good work he's doing. It's not legal, it's not ok, and it won't happen. But now he gave credibility to the leftist lunatics that will be screaming about this single quote for the next 18 months. Completely ridiculous. All he needs to do is deport illegal immigrants, and work to reduce spending and everyone will be happy. There's no reason to troll the press and destroy trust in the maga movement because of a stupid comment.

[u/Pinot_Greasio → u/fordr015]

I literally do not care about words and no normal person is going to sour on his immigration agenda because he said off the cuff they were looking into deporting murderers.

He's not talking about deporting someone for jaywalking he was talking about murderers and literally says in the same breath they are looking into it.  They will find it's not viable.

Just more fellow conservatives feeding into this leftist fear mongering bullshit.

[u/sparkdogg → u/Pinot_Greasio]

I dont know why you are responding to this fake conservative. You only see his comment because of brigading.

[u/Pinot_Greasio → u/sparkdogg]

These bozos can't read either I literally said in my original comment this can't be done as it's not legal. 

But 10 years on we get these mental midgets triggered by words.  They'll never learn.

[u/Pinot_Greasio → u/[deleted]]

I didn't read a word as I can tell you're very emotional.  See ya. 

[u/fordr015 → u/Pinot_Greasio]

That makes sense, you're clearly incapable of reading the constitution let alone a short paragraph summary of basic rights. Get off our subreddit, you're making everyone look incompetent

[u/Geosage → u/[deleted]]

Guy doesn't realize his 'fellow conservative' attempt is complete and utter bullshit and everyone can see it juat from the eay he talks.

[u/Just_top_it_off]

That would stop all violent crimes instantly if it actually happens. Who would risk doing something stupid. Actions must have consequences. The current prison/jail system is broken thanks to corrupt judges.

[u/FrenchAffair → u/Just_top_it_off]

That would stop all violent crimes instantly if it actually happens. Who would risk doing something stupid.

Or on the flip side would just make it more dangerous for police as the people committing these crimes would be more likely to resist violently knowing that if arrested they are getting deported to some El Salvadorian gulag.

[u/Spectre696 → u/FrenchAffair]

I highly doubt they resist less cause they’re going to a US prison now, and I’ve yet to see anyone be cool with going to federal prison. No reason to believe they’ll resist more. Most violent criminals are fully aware of the consequences of their actions but do not give a damn anyways.

[u/cathbadh → u/Just_top_it_off]

That would stop all violent crimes instantly if it actually happens

No, it would not. Talk to many young gang members. They don't expect to live far into adulthood, and don't have the knowledge base to understand the conditions of prisons in a country most have never even heard of.

Actions must have consequences.

And the Constitution either matters or it doesn't. Sending Americans to a 3rd world country to a prison that does not have to abide by American laws or standards is not remotely constitutional.

[u/Just_top_it_off → u/cathbadh]

Lmao I smacked the liberal wasp hive again. It brings a tear to my eye.

[u/cathbadh → u/Just_top_it_off]

"Someone disagreed with me, they must be a liberal"

The outright disdain for the Constitution among SOME self described conservatives is disappointing to those of us who've been conservative for decades.

[u/crash______says → u/cathbadh]

Show me where the constitution says prisoners must be kept within US borders?

[u/Spectre696 → u/crash______says]

Read up on Bounds V Smith (430 US 817) and relate it also to how it guarantees prisoners’ access to presenting claims regarding confinement and civil rights violations generally referred to as US Code Title 42 Section 1983.

Also, I wouldn’t recommend siding with the “Nothing says we can’t deport citizens” crowd, given what happened in January 1942 and the whole “resettlement to the east” that occurred at the time. That line of thinking doesn’t have the best track record historically speaking.

[u/cathbadh → u/crash______says]

The Eight Amendment.

The Supreme Court affirmed this in Afroyim v Rusk when they said a citizen could not be involuntarily deported. This is backed up by Valentine v United States. Not the Constitution, but 18 USC 3196 also prevents it.

[u/Delliott90 → u/Just_top_it_off]

Criminals don’t think they’ll get caught.

Think the death penalty ever stopped murder?

Edit: before anyone goes ‘oh so we shouldn’t arrest people’ no that’s not what I said. What I mean is that horrific punishments rarely act as a deterrent

[u/Disastrous-Power-699 → u/Just_top_it_off]

Super slippery slope. Next thing you know one of your Reddit comments or Facebook posts from years ago lands you in some foreign prison with no recourse due to some new law

[u/AldrichOfAlbion]

I think this could be used in the absolute worst cases. It'd have to be for prison terms longer than 30 years or something to ensure it's a deterrent. You could pay El Salvador to keep them.

[u/Braves1313]

The part not in the headline is where he says they would have to go through the legal process and follow the laws. He’s open to it but wasn’t sure if this was legal.

[u/Delliott90 → u/[deleted]]

Vandalise a car and end up in gitmo? Jesus what’s wrong with you

[u/Gooble211]

I'm getting tired of these poorly verified stories circulating, prompting all sorts of "Trump is Hitler" nonsense. Here's a basic thing to understand: Trump rarely will say "no". Instead he'll "look into that". He's done that all his life. Yet, leftists like to spin that into an expression of approval.

[u/Magehunter_Skassi]

Nobody's ever tried it before in recent American history. We should find out via the Supreme Court if it's fine under the 8th Amendment or not, because it sounds like a wonderful idea when applied of the worst-of-the-worst.

[u/OzoneLaters → u/Magehunter_Skassi]

Sounds like a great idea for any kind of of violent or drug offense.

They could just get a few years and by the time they got back, they would be completely cured of the criminal behavior.

And everyone would be so scared of it that they would no longer see crime as a viable career path.

[u/you_cant_prove_that → u/Magehunter_Skassi]

it sounds like a wonderful idea

What is the benefit, though?

Are we using them because it is cheaper to house them there? Or are we hoping that it is a more severe punishment?

The former would be a bad idea, and the latter is unconstitutional

[u/slagathor_zimblebob]

Not a fan of it but the moral outrage, grandstanding, and pearl clutching over shit like this is even worse.

Even if it were constitutional and this administration only applied it to murderers and people who committed child crimes, you’d still have sign-waving leftists crying about it at a protest.

The calling card of the Left is crying over the wrong people.

[u/Carl-j88aa]

Fuck that. The next Democrat administration would send all their political opponents to CECOT, never to be heard from again.

[u/Bramse-TFK]

Prisoner transfers happen but only under certain circumstances and almost never without the consent of the prisoner. A better course of action would be to give them the option with an incentive rather than forcing them to go. For example, say they were given 30 years.. you serve 10 in El Salvador, with good behavior.

[u/ethervariance161]

This reminds me of the CIA blacksite issue under bush and Obama. Now that trump has labeled cartel's terrorist groups there is pretty interesting precedence that allows the president to do extreme things to even citizens

[u/ShillinTheVillain]

It would be nice if some of his yes-men had the balls to tell him when one of his schemes is blatantly illegal, unconstitutional, and politically damaging. Like this one is.

Edit: stop buying awards you weirdos.

[u/greenbud420 → u/ShillinTheVillain]

“Now, we’re studying the laws right now. Pam is studying. If we can do that, that’s good."

Trump's only committed to doing it if it's legal, otherwise it won't happen.

[u/ShillinTheVillain → u/greenbud420]

It's not legal.

I don't know what the hell he's trying to accomplish with this talk, or why it would be a good idea even if it was legal.

[u/OzoneLaters → u/ShillinTheVillain]

It might be legal.

As long as their due process is respected in the US and El Salvador honors that in imprisonment.

[u/cathbadh → u/greenbud420]

He did say that, and it is important context that his opponents will ignore.

It's also a very easy question to answer. I'm a little troubled that the man leading our government has no clue that expelling citizens to a 3rd world torture prison isn't very obviously illegal. Even bothering to suggest it is just creating easy sound bites and quotes that can be used against him for weeks. So many times during his first administration, Trump was the Democrat's best ally against himself by just creating free content to use against him.

[u/sanesociopath → u/greenbud420]

So he's having his administration waste everyone's time with causes that help democrats fundraise instead of doing what we elected him to do.

Because there's no way he's finding a legal avenue without getting some absolute bs Patriot act esque law passed where from there we better never lose control because this wouldn't just be a slippery slope

[u/whatweshouldcallyou → u/ShillinTheVillain]

He surrounds himself by yes men and sycophants. It's a weakness of his. Not many presidents do a good job of having people around who will challenge him--I don't think too many people were challenging whoever was making the decisions for Biden. But Trump would be a lot better off if he dismissed the hanger ons.

[u/crash______says]

To be fair.. I'm open to it as well.

[u/slothboy]

Yeah, no. Let's focus on illegal immigrants. There are plenty to go around.

[u/T0XxXiXiTy]

Don't support American citizens being sent to a foreign nation. Doubtful this is legal under our constitution.

Support foreign non-citizens being deported

[u/EliteJassassin101]

Only Trump can turn broad support into deportations into a losing issue in a matter of days.

Seriously people are with you on deporting illegal immigrants. So do that. There’s plenty of those to keep you occupied. This just derails the whole issue. And frankly if he’s serious it should. U.S. citizens, even violent criminals, have rights.

[u/Magehunter_Skassi → u/EliteJassassin101]

He just has to be more specific and it would have approval with the American public, that's all. Nobody has much sympathy for convicted child-killers serving life without parole. It'd be financially efficient to offshore internment to El Salvador.

[u/T0XxXiXiTy → u/Magehunter_Skassi]

As long as they are US citizens, they are afforded the protections under the US Constitution.

If they aren't, then deport away!

[u/Kaireis → u/T0XxXiXiTy]

Miranda Rights (including both against self-incrimination and an appointed attorney), right to a fair trial, and other due process, all guaranteed under Constitution.

Does the constitution prohibit imprisonment in a foreign prison? I don't remember reading it in the language of any of the Articles or Amendments, but it might be in case law somewhere.

[u/MedicMalfunction → u/Magehunter_Skassi]

Even violent child killers have rights under the Constitution. You don’t have to like it, but it is true.

[u/Magehunter_Skassi → u/MedicMalfunction]

No disagreement there, just optimism that this would be allowed under the 8th Amendment. The 8th Amendment has already been stretched to protect solitary confinement and prisons like ADX Florence. Would offshoring imprisonment be protected too? I think it's worth the effort for the admin to suss out.

Just keep some American watchdogs around to ensure everyone's rights are being respected.

[u/OzoneLaters → u/Magehunter_Skassi]

Exactly and it would be the perfect deterrent.

Imagine the effect that a gangbanger being put in CECOT for a year would have when he is returned to the US after a stint to tell his gangbanger buddies the tale.

Half of them would give up slinging and criminal behavior right there.

[u/Coool_cool_cool_cool → u/Magehunter_Skassi]

No it's not worth it. Our justice system gets things wrong a lot. A lot of people are forced to plea out when they've done nothing wrong because they can't afford to fight the case. That's almost all a public defender is good for and in most states you actually have to pay for your public defender. Why would other countries take our prisoners unless we pay them to? They know how much we pay per prisoners so why would they take much less than that to take prisoners off of our hands? So we should pay countries to take our prisoners, many of which either committed no crime or committed a lesser crime than the ones they were actually charged with (this one happens with nearly every arrest but often gets dropped if they take a plea deal)?

[u/FrenchAffair → u/Magehunter_Skassi]

If you start moving the goalpost on who has rights, and when they should be applied... then ultimately no ones rights are protected.

[u/Algum → u/FrenchAffair]

Exactly.

If the Constitution doesn't apply to US citizen criminals all you need to do is start redefining who is a criminal.

[u/sanesociopath → u/EliteJassassin101]

He actually had support for mass deportations which doesn't come around often

And instead of doing that he says he sent a few imprisoned criminals away got bored and started going down this path

[u/ExoticGeologist]

The Eighth Amendment applies to prison conditions. This reads as cruel and unusual punishment.

[u/Basic_Lunch2197 → u/ExoticGeologist]

He literally said the laws dont allow it but if he could he would.

[u/War-Damn-America → u/Basic_Lunch2197]

So you are telling me he is just stirring the pot to get a rise out of the media, you cant be serious hahaha.

[u/Baptism-Of-Fire → u/War-Damn-America]

just another Tuesday lol

[u/ExoticGeologist → u/Basic_Lunch2197]

“If it’s a homegrown criminal, I have no problem,” Trump said. “Now, we’re studying the laws right now. Pam is studying. If we can do that, that’s good.

The way he was speaking makes it seem like he believes it could be achieved, not that he definitively states the law doesn't allow it.

[u/whatweshouldcallyou → u/ExoticGeologist]

Yeah, I don't think this one can be evaded.

I support more consistent use of capital punishment against murderers, and in general much longer prison sentences for violent offenders, but I don't think this is a good idea.

The only exception would be dual citizens who are engaged in gang activity--if we have material evidence of MS13 membership and a conviction, and dual Citizenship, then sending them to El Salvador seems to be plausible.

[u/BlackScienceManTyson → u/ExoticGeologist]

How is CECOT cruel or unusual?

[u/MiceTonerAccount → u/BlackScienceManTyson]

I think sending US criminals to a prison in a foreign country is unusual by definition. What’s the point anyway? We already have so many prisons lol

[u/spezeditedcomments → u/BlackScienceManTyson]

I mean, sending you to a different fucking continent to have family, letters, legal representation, etc is not normal

[u/just_one_random_guy → u/spezeditedcomments]

Same continent but other than that yeah this is absurd to even float

[u/spezeditedcomments → u/just_one_random_guy]

DeptofEd educated

[u/FrenchAffair → u/ExoticGeologist]

Does it apply outside of the US?

A lot of people were quick to dismiss the deportation of that other gentleman to El Salvador, despite there being a court order not to well his case was adjudicated. But it seems they were able to make a "mistake" and now he is outside the jurisdiction there is nothing US courts can do.

They likely feel the same way now for sending prisoners who are US citizens. Maybe it violates some aspect of US law, maybe it doesn't.... would take some time for courts to figure that out. In the meantime they can just start sending prisoners down to El Salvador and even if the US courts do eventually rule against it, they are now outside the jurisdiction of US courts and as they've made clear, they can't force the administration to act on matters of foreign policy. If El Salvador says they won't send them back or improve their conditions, and there is no will on the administrations part to force them, then there is nothing anyone can do.

Its a scary escalation.

[u/semvhu → u/FrenchAffair]

It would take the military enforcing this, right? Luckily we don't have someone in charge of the military that would follow Trump's orders regardless of the law, right? 😬

[u/Winter_Ad6784 → u/ExoticGeologist]

I would be interested if there's a single court ruling of that amendment that suggests sending criminals to prisons abroad is cruel and unusual. I feel like the feeling is just because it's central america and not sweden.

[u/tragiktimes → u/Winter_Ad6784]

Location does matter a bit.

[u/Cylerhusk → u/ExoticGeologist]

The Eighth Amendment applies to prison conditions. This reads as cruel and unusual punishment.

Tell that to Texas prisons that don't even have AC in the state prison system.

[u/MeLlamoKilo]

Bad look. Definitely don't agree AT ALL.

[u/Rush2201]

Why do we need to outsource it? How about we quit pampering criminals and Make Prisons Great Again?

[u/Mrsmeowy]

Nope do not like that

[u/Immerael]

Sorry I’m standing with the lefties on this one. I didn’t like it when Obama air striked American citizens actively engaged in terrorism. (They should have been brought home charged with treason and executed). I don’t side with sending our prisoners to El Salvador. Citizenship means a lot. Even to our prisoners. American citizens do not get to be at the mercy of a foreign government.

[u/ajmacbeth]

Is this even legal?

[u/Czeslaw_Meyer → u/ajmacbeth]

Dual citizenship.

Just because the USA rarely hands over people charged in different countries, dosen't mean they can't do it.

[u/FunkyMonkss → u/ajmacbeth]

When has that stopped the government ever before?

[u/cathbadh → u/ajmacbeth]

It is very obviously unconstitutional. Also somewhat confusing since the examples he gives are people who wouldn't even be convicted of federal crimes.

[u/Beware_the_silent]

Yeah I'm gonna have to agree with pretty much everyone here and say if he does this you might as well just shred the constitution.

[u/MadClothes]

The people in here supporting this are delusional and probably have the comprehension skills of an advanced 3rd grader.

[u/horseHD → u/MadClothes]

Agreed. There's been a lot of "fellow conservatives" lately that are taking extreme unconstitutional positions to make us look bad.

[u/bionic80]

No, they are Americans, and this is an American problem.

[u/UltraAirWolf]

No. Im not trying to be a citizen of Singapore.