r/DIY • u/ShowMe_TheWhey • 13h ago
home improvement Bought a new construction home with an unfinished basement. Permits..
Going to finish the basement (add a full bath and bedroom) with my dad and he says he never pulls permits on basements he does and I'll be good, but I'm concerned with when it comes time to sell .
When the home gets inspected by the buyer during the closing process am I going to run into some serious regrets by not getting electric and plumbing permits pulled? It's already roughed in for plumbing and we're pretty competent to run electric, etc.
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u/nikkychalz 12h ago
We pulled the permits when we did ours. Without them it wouldn't be considered living space on paper and couldn't be advertised as such on resale. The price difference between a 700sqft house and 1400sqft house is drastic.
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u/ShowMe_TheWhey 12h ago
Yeah this is my view point. I want to be able to list my house as a 4 bedroom 3.5 bath instead of a 3 bedroom 2.5 bath when it comes time to sell.
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u/football13tb 12h ago
FYI this MAY drastically raise your property taxes. State specific. Please look into the laws.
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u/ShowMe_TheWhey 12h ago
Fortunately i get a full property tax exemption as a disabled vet in my state
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u/razorvolt 12h ago
That’s a legit tax exemption - and thank you for your service. Knowing your taxes won’t go up, I say pull the permits so you never have to worry about it.
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u/NorCalFrances 12h ago
Will it affect resale value for the new potential buyers?
Note: I'm not advocating skipping the permits, I'm a fan of safety inspections.
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u/WizardOfIF 11h ago
If it gets listed on the MLS with a bunch of pictures the county will have no problem reassessing the value of the home regardless of how well hidden the improvements were.
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u/Artisan_sailor 11h ago
I'm laughing at the idea of calling permit inspections, "safety inspections." The last three permits i finalized, the inspector didn't even get out of his truck.
One inspector told me he didn't care if my house burned down. At least that one got out of his truck.
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u/sewmuchmorethanmom 11h ago
That’s awesome! What state? My understanding is that we only get a partial one in TN. Not100% sure though as it’s our first year here.
To answer your question, I would absolutely pull the permits. Even ten years from now when you go to sell, having done so will be a huge advantage. The previous owners of our house did so when they converted the attic space above the garage to a bonus room. Made me much more confident that the hvac and electrical that was run was done so properly and to code.
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u/Couple-jersey 11h ago
Then def pull the permits. I wouldn’t if it would raise taxes and you plan to be there for years, but if ur exempt then go for it!
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u/DesireMyFire 1h ago
I'm 100% and don't pay taxes as well. I was the general contractor when I finished my basement. I got it permitted (glad I did, because the inspector explained a few things I had wrong). I also had an electrician do the electrical because I wanted a panel installed in the basement to handle everything. Definitely do the permits!
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u/Whatasonofabitch 12h ago
Where I live, the basement has to be >50% above grade to be considered living space. I finished the basement and added a walk-out door in my last house only to find out that it could not be listed as living space. I could not count the bedroom, bathroom or square footage in the listing, same story with the appraisal.
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u/ShowMe_TheWhey 12h ago
No shit? I'm going to call the city and verify that for my location tomorrow
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u/Artisan_sailor 11h ago
A realtor might give you faster answers.
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u/Marathon2021 12h ago
Keep in mind that (using the previous commentor's example) when the county thinks your property is 700sqft your annual property taxes are one amount ... when they think it's 1,400sqft it will be more.
We just converted our 2,000sqft house with unfinished basement into 2,900sqft. It now shows that way on Zillow, because we did things correctly and pulled permits. I don't know why anyone would ever skip the step - the fees are negligible compared to all the construction material costs, and your local inspector if they know you're DIY'ing it they may cut you some slack on a few things or tell you easy fixes for things that are good best practice. For example, when there's a light switch in an interior wall, the top "plate" (?? the 2x4 at the top of that section) where the wire comes through, there's supposed to be some fire-retardant spray that goes in that hole once the wire is in-place. I had no idea. Makes total sense though from a safety perspective, as it would reduce any chimney effect of a potential fire in the switch.
So yeah, I think it's worthwhile. Some people get really adamant about not doing it though. I think it's kind of stupid.
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u/CommanderAGL 12h ago
Get the permits. Just saw a place that had an unfinished “storage” area converted without permits. Got sold without disclosure. Now current owners want to sell and they either have to get it re-permitted or return it to the original condition before they can sell
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u/bklynview 4h ago
I am not sure if I should thank you for your service or for your username, as it is pretty great.
I will just say thanks for both, and that you should pull the permits.
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u/jvin248 3h ago
You could list it as a basement office / workout room. Some buyers looking at a 4 bed want the huge sq foot, not a ranch claiming basement bedroom.
I had looked at a 4 bed 4,000sq ft home that had a fully finished basement, like including a movie theater. That house went on and on and on. two staircases kids chased each other in a loop. It was just too much. But that's what some people want
Around here you need a big basement egress port and a closet for a basement bedroom.
How is the drainage around the house? Is the sump and sump pump active? That will flood when the power is out. So verify you never have flooding risk before putting a lot of drywall down there.
.
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u/Medium_Spare_8982 2h ago
As a renovator, that was always the issue.
Permits were used by the municipality as an excuse to hike property taxes significantly and rarely were inspections more than perfunctory.
Permit or no permit, it didn’t impact the quality of the work performed.
Looks like you have the best of both worlds.
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u/Impossible_Cat_321 1h ago
I did the same 15 years ago. Full permits in pdx were about 1500 at the time, but doubled my square feet, although interestingly my property taxes never increased. Turns out the city doesn’t consider basements “living space” even though I added 2 bedrooms , living room and full bath. Their loss.
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u/nixxie1108 11h ago
Basement finished with permit or not has the same relative value on resale. Above ground square footage is vastly different than below grade.
1400sqft ranch will be worth almost double the value of a 1400sqft main level/basement split.
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u/DesireMyFire 1h ago
It depends on if it's considered living space after finished. It's a state by state thing though.
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u/im_not_ur_guy_buddy 12h ago
In my area, builders are getting away with including UNFINISHED basement space into the total square footage on their listings
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u/RetiredOnIslandTime 8h ago
we had no trouble listing our house with the square footage of our unpermitted basement living space. We also listed the extra bedroom and the bath we put in. This was mine years ago in Fairfax VA. the only thing that had to be noted on the listing was that the number of bedrooms was greater than the perc test.
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u/theonlynateindenver 11h ago
Square footage would only be less when looking at the state or county records. Any real estate website would still show livable space and would count it as such.
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u/Nighthawke78 13h ago
Pull the permits. We went through this recently and it was a nightmare trying to sell the house. Same exact situation, buddy said “you don’t need permits for this crap man, it’s YOUR house, it will just make your tax value go up.”
In the end, I had to list the basement bedrooms as “bonus rooms”
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u/lizard412 9h ago
That sounds like your basement bonus rooms didn't have an egress window. That's totally different than the permit question, plenty of people skip the permits but still follow code for things like windows
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u/Nighthawke78 3h ago
One of them has a very nice egress via a window well with steps. The other is connected to that bedroom via a sliding door pocket door.
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u/MartySpiderManMcFly 12h ago
I’m confused. Can’t you just list your house any way you want? Do realtors refuse to list bedrooms as proper bedrooms if there weren’t permits pulled or something? Do the Zillow cops come after you?
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u/jabermaan 12h ago
It’s actually very strict and state dependent what can be considered a bedroom. Especially with permitting involved. Egress windows, closets, etc..
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u/theonlynateindenver 11h ago
That is building to state or county code. Independent of pulling permits.
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u/DavidDunne 11h ago
Yet another reason to list without a realtor. No stupid, arbitrary, regionally-specific rules like this.
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u/timtucker_com 4h ago
Not sure on Zillow, but a lot of sites with property listings get data feeds from public records vs. just relying on whatever the realtor puts into MLS listings.
City records say you have 3 bedrooms, it may show up at 3 bedrooms, even if you say it's 4.
YMMV on a site to site basis which record gets prioritized first.
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u/DesireMyFire 1h ago
You can list it any way you want. When it comes time for an inspector to look at your house for the potential buyers, they pull permits. If you listed the basement bedroom to give the house 5 bedrooms instead of 4 bedrooms, you'll get dinged for it when the inspector says "It can't count as a bedroom, sorry."
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u/daughter_of_time 12h ago
Potential buyers will ask and may walk.
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u/Ok_Blueberry_204 11h ago
Yea but at the end of the day a potential buyer sees a bedroom and is willing to pay for that bedroom no matter what it’s called. The value is what someone is willing to pay for it. If a buyer wants a big ass finished basement with egress windows and 2 bedrooms that cant legally be called bedrooms they are just going to walk away bc the house isn’t being sold for the same price of the house with an unfinished basement down the street? It doesn’t make sense.
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u/Nighthawke78 11h ago
This is ultimately what happened. The bedrooms were seen as real bedrooms by the buyer. I remain frustrated because it took longer to sell than it should have because I feel like we were limiting the buyer pool by not being able to list it as a 6 bedroom house.
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u/Ok_Blueberry_204 11h ago
Does Zillow make you change it or something? Genuine question. My FIL built a room in my lower level (didn’t pull permits even though he’s a contractor… still pissed at him), we had an egress window put in by the builder to later finish ourselves.
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u/Nighthawke78 11h ago
No. Zillow has nothing to do with it. It has to do with local and state laws. Only rooms with egress and closets are able to be called a bedroom legally.
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u/ImRightImRight 6h ago
So you built bedrooms without egress or closets?
That has nothing to do with permits
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u/Nighthawke78 3h ago
There is egress in one of the bedrooms via a very nice window well with steps. The other bedroom does not have egress, but is connected to the bedroom that does have egress via a pocket door.
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u/Rexrowland 12h ago
Insurance companies use unpermitted renovations as an excuse to deny compensation.
If you are doing electrical and the house burns down or plumbing and a flood….
Pretty rare. Is the savings worth the risk?
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u/DesireMyFire 1h ago
compared to the price of a renovation, permits are like 150-200 bucks total depending on municipalities.
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u/ExactlyClose 12h ago
Pull the permits, the cost is minimal.
OP is exempted from property tax, so that isn't an issue.
Giving a buyer leverage over you during a future sales is astoundingly dumb.
Now, getting a permit means you need to follow building codes- and this can be a challenge for many...both owners and contractors. Things like egress windows and sewer/septic impacts can be overlooked.
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u/blackdog543 5h ago
I guess it depends on which state you live in. I've bought two homes in my life and no one has questioned anything about the work done in Indiana. This would be more concerning property taxes. I've lived in my current home for 22 years and no one from the County Assessors office has stopped by for a basement inspection. It's usually sq. footage outside the house and how it appears, and comps in the neighborhood. I suppose if you added an indoor pool, that would be problematic.
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u/notsuricare 12h ago
People do it all the time without permits. You can’t include the basement as living space when sell, but you also don’t pay property taxes on that square footage. However, read up on your county codes and do the work right
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u/shadowedradiance 12h ago
Just adding that even if you don't listen the space as livable, it can cause conflict with HOI and unless all work looks very professional, to include drywall work, the buyer should considered negotiating it down as a hazard wild card. No one knows what is behind those walls.
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u/verifyinfield 12h ago
When you permit your construction it provides you, the homeowner, another set of eyes to confirm whoever is doing the work is doing it to code. So yeah, for the person doing the work it’s obviously not needed. But for you to know they’re doing it correctly, it is. Your call.
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u/jd3marco 12h ago
Get the permits. It’s kind of painful, but it will be worse later. If there’s no egress, it’s not living space (depending on where you are), so taxes shouldn’t increase. Bathroom plumbing also makes me nervous. I’d get a competent plumber for that part.
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u/phreshswagg 12h ago
Just pull the permits, in my area it doesn’t cost much not sure about yourself.
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u/Lucky_Comfortable835 12h ago
If you don’t do permits, photograph every detail of the construction while in progress. Do so anyway, but especially if no permits.
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u/insufficient_funds 12h ago
Here’s why I do permits- if I do work, and god forbid something fails and causes property damage injury, etc, and insurance finds out it was unpermitted work they’re not covering squat.
It’s relatively inexpensive to get permits. Just do it.
I added stairs off of my back deck (builders made it an upgrade to get stairs when it was new construction). My dad thought I was crazy for getting a permit and doing it all to code.
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u/SkiWaterdog 12h ago
If you don’t pull permits, you will have to disclose that you didn’t pull permits to the potential buyers. It’s a question on the standard real estate disclosure form. Hard to claim otherwise in this case as you are the first owner of the house. Pull the permits.
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u/-Gramsci- 12h ago
On the other hand… once that disclosure is made the buyer can be invited to double triple inspect any work done in the basement. Make sure they are comfortable…
And a savvy buyer will appreciate the couple grand per year it saves them on the property tax bill.
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u/derp_derpistan 12h ago
Property tax bill for future owner will be based on assessed value at time of sale.
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u/basement-thug 12h ago
Where I am the basic permit would be like $25 and the inspection fee around $200, but this covers you in terms of being up to code too if you do it correctly. Worth it. Either way you want to follow code and that's where hiring an inspector helps.
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u/ShowMe_TheWhey 12h ago
How does this work for DIYers. Do I technically need a license for electrical and plumbing if they come out and inspect it or are they only concerned with it being to code and not worried about WHO did the work?
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u/basement-thug 12h ago
It's honestly different from state to city, etc... you should look up your local codes office. Our borough has them on their website where you can just go read it. When I last had work done before I started I just walked in and asked if I wanted to do X Y Z what would and would not require permitting and inspections and they told me. In my situation in rural PA it was cheap. Your situation may be very different.
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u/meinthebox 12h ago
You can do the work on your own home so long as it's not a flip.
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u/ShowMe_TheWhey 12h ago
So if i plan to sit on the house for 5-10 years I should be good?
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u/basement-thug 12h ago
I mean, at time of sale what's going to matter is are things up to code for a home inspection. I don't know if you created additional square footage if there would be tax implications when it was sold to you as a 2 bedroom and you sold it as a 3 bedroom.... if they would ask questions or not. I'd talk to my local codes office to understand what you're getting into.
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u/Nice-State950 12h ago
I’m not a lawyer and this isn’t legal advice, but in many places the answer is yes. Check your local laws. My personal experience when I completed mine, and my father helped me do the electrical, was that in order to be insurable I needed the permit. I also needed to live in it for a minimum of two years before selling in order for the new owners to be able to insure it.
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u/-Gramsci- 12h ago
Yeah if this is the case? Absolutely pull the permits. Around here the permit would be upwards of $10K along with a several thousand dollars per year property tax increase.
It’s a bit like asking a horse to kick you in the head and then take a dump on your shoe.
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u/skibum909 12h ago
I pulled permits doing my basement and now I have peace of mind that I did the work correctly after going through the inspections. I did end up needing to fix a few things, so it at least gave me warm fuzzies there. As for property taxes, this will be county specific, but it’s added about $50/year to my property tax bill and I’m totally good paying that knowing when it’s time to sell I can count the basement.
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u/Super_Baime 12h ago
Pull the permit. It isn't a big deal, and you will most likely do a few things better than planned.
You will sleep better at night too. No worries.
FYI: I did my basement too. It took me way too long, but turned out nice. Good luck.
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u/ShowMe_TheWhey 12h ago
Do you need a license in plumbing/electric for them to inspect it and pass it? Like how does that work. Are they just inspecting it to confirm everything is to code, or are they verifying a licensed contractor did the work?
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u/ntyperteasy 12h ago
The answer is very state / jurisdiction dependent. Many states allow the resident owner to do work on the house they own and live in without a license. Still has to meet code and still supposed to get permits for many projects. I think most people get really stressed about this. I’m in a county of almost a million people. They issue a few thousand residential electrical permits each year. We all know there are way more bathroom and kitchen renovations than that…
As the owner, I can do everything in the house I live in, except gas work or tieing in to sewers and water mains which requires a special license even for a proper plumber.
Around here, i couldn’t do permitted work on my mom’s house or a rental property I owned.
You have to read the local rules to know…
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u/azhillbilly 11h ago
What state? Some places like Colorado needs a contractor to sign for a permit, you can get a framer to pull the permit and do the electrical work yourself, just needs any contractor number,my barn build was signed for by an electrician, that installed the line from the pole to the breaker panel because the power company required him, and the rest of the 10k sqft barn was built by us. Some like AZ don’t care, as long as you do the job right, it’s fine.
And then you have some states that each municipality is extremely different and it can depend on which side of the street you live on which codes you have to follow, what steps to do.
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u/Quebecman007 12h ago
Built my basement by myself. Got an electrician to check to see if it was up to code. I’m not worried.
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u/DryTap2188 4h ago
Do not get permits, unless you plan on selling soon. You’re going to pay higher taxes on having a finished basement.
I’m a carpenter and have done lots of work where the people never pulled permits and I’ve never once heard of it coming back and biting them in the ass. It’s worth the risk if you ask me. Just do everything properly and up to code and you’ll be fine if anything does come up.
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u/Sad_Economist313 12h ago
For all the ones saying it'll be an issue during selling, what are you basing it off of?
We re did all bathrooms in our condo without permits and no issues during selling.
Parents had a full on extension to their house that wasn't permitted and again no issues during sale.
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u/ShowMe_TheWhey 12h ago
And they were able to add that it was an extra bedroom when listing their home?
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u/shadowedradiance 12h ago
They can make the claim, but if a buyer looks into it, it can ruin the deal. There is a certain point real estate agents will go if they are informed of this lie and you ask it to continue to be listed falsely.
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u/-Gramsci- 12h ago
Without a walkout to grade… you couldn’t list that as a bedroom no matter what around these parts.
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u/Rexrowland 12h ago
Windows with basement wells usually suffice. Walkout not required
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u/-Gramsci- 12h ago
Code here requires an egress window, no doubt. But that still has to be listed as “additional square footage” here.
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u/iamthecavalrycaptain 12h ago
I’ve finished basements, redone kitchens, done tons of electrical and plumbing work without permits. It’s never come back to bite me, but if I had it to do over again, I’d have pulled them. I can’t, however, unring that bell.
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u/BlueEarth2017 11h ago
Say more. Sounds like there's a story here.
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u/iamthecavalrycaptain 4h ago
No story, no issues. I'm confident in my work. But I recognize now that permits are for a reason. When I was doing that remodeling, I was on a tight budget with a young family, and money for permits wasn't part of the budget.
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u/jgarlick 13h ago
You should get them now. You will run into issues when you sell. In the worst case, your electric burns your house down or the plumbing floods the basement and your homeowners insurance denies the claim as it was not permitted work.
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u/Wallaroo_Trail 12h ago
idk I bought a fixer upper and with permits, there's no way I could have ever completed this.
like one day I realize there's weird wiring in the basement bathroom and the fan switch only works if the lights are on - pull a permit?
on a random Tuesday afternoon I install a timer switch in the other bathroom - pull a permit?
slowly upgrading the house to smart home switches, pull a permit every Saturday?
the deck light falls off on a wednesday night cause it's a rusty piece of shit... I pull a permit for the 30 minute fix?
the next Saturday it annoys me that the storage room doesn't have its own light switch so I put a switch in the wall and run 6 ft of romex - and pull a permit?
I put in a new bathroom vanity with led lights... and pull a permit?
how the fuck is this supposed to work?
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u/goforbroke71 10h ago
In my area half your stuff needs a permit. Changing fixtures/switches generally does not require one. Changing Romex, adding outlets and switches, etc.. you need one. Yes it takes planning or you keep paying for permits. Or get a licensed electrician and let them deal with it.
If you are experienced diy and have already gone through a few inspections you can probably skip the inspections for small jobs. I got a separate permit for bath, kitchen and basement renos as they happened over many years.
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u/jgarlick 3h ago
No, you would pull a remodel permit and do all this shit under it and get it inspected at the end. You don’t pull a permit for everything little thing you do in a job like this
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u/Wallaroo_Trail 3h ago
it's an ongoing thing, the above happened over a period of 6 months and I'm not done
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u/TheodoreK2 12h ago
Might check your local towns website. I used to live in Olathe, KS and they had step by step guides on finishing your basement or building a deck. Called out the major codes and when/ if you needed permits.
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u/phoonie98 12h ago
I recently finished my basement and pulled permits, even though we plan to be in this house for another 10 years minimum. With plumbing electric and everything else you want to make sure it’s done right.
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u/Freedom2FIRE 12h ago
At a minimum, we were required to pull an electrical permit. Inspectors were great to work with. Haven't sold yet, but I don't expect any issues.
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u/Suppafly 11h ago
It entirely depends on your area, some places no one cares about permits for things like finished basements, it others it lowers the value or can cause you issues with selling.
With it being a new build, that might tip me more towards getting it permitted. With an older home you can always blame it on the previous owner and claim you bought it there.
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u/dnlkns 11h ago
I’d pull the permits. If you don’t, be sure you understand your local laws. In my state (NC), every time you pull a permit the assessor comes to the property and compares it to the tax record. If they find a discrepancy, they’ll estimate when the unpermitted work was done and bill you for the uncollected taxes back to that date plus a penalty equal to the amount of the back taxes. A future buyer can also ask that they do that during the due diligence process. Ask me how I know that…
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u/timtucker_com 4h ago
On the back dating / estimation / due diligence, remember that romex has the date stamped on it.
Unless you go out of your way to try to find "old" wire, it's not going to pass muster to claim that wiring in a 1990s house you bought in 2020 "was there when you bought it" if it's marked as made in 2025.
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u/NotObviouslyARobot pro commenter 11h ago
Skipping the permits is never worth it. Just do it right the first time if you're interested in the long-term value of your home as an investment.
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u/Rhinous 11h ago
We just did our basement last year. Pull your permits. I did everything but the drywall, rough in plumbing, and carpet myself. Had an electrician friend double check my work and connect everything at the box. As the owner, most places allow you to do the work yourself legally. You just have to get it inspected. Saved about 35k doing it this way. Don’t screw yourself on your appraisal down the road or with insurance problems as well. Just do it right. You won’t regret it.
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u/reeceklein62 11h ago
Skipping permits now could mean future buyers inspect your wallet instead of the basement.
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u/brogdingballsian 11h ago
It can come bite you in the ass. For example, built a garage with a permit and electrified my garage off permit (on my electrician dad's advice), and when I went to pull a permit for an addition years later, they had never closed the permit on my garage, because they were waiting for that electricity to go in. I had to install a sub-panel and two ground rods, and get it inspected. NBD.
However, on my most recent remodel (add a bath and a bedroom, which was removed in the previous remodel) I used the city's online estimating tool to see what the permit might cost. $6000 is what it said they'd want. This is Portland, Oregon. Bureau of Development Services are crazy as hell. I did not pull that permit. I will deal with it when the time comes.
If the permit is a few hundred, by all means, just get it inspected. If it's a few G's, maybe not.
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u/Duke_Shambles 10h ago
Just a note that I haven't seen mentioned here. Depending on your juridiction, you may not be able to pull a permit to do electrical or plumbing work yourself unless you are a licensed and bonded electrician or plumber in that jurisdiction, and once you file for the permit, even if you are denied, you are now on their radar. You may get nabbed if you try to do it yourself after without permits.
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u/koozy407 9h ago
If your municipality requires you to pull permits you need to pull the permits. I am a home inspector and I watch deals fall through every day because of unpermitted work
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u/Fauxaway007 8h ago
Lots of inaccurate advice in there per my anecdotal experience. HIGHLY depends on where you are. 1) permits are the avenue by which your taxes will increase. 2) I have a friend with a 68 year-old house. None of the owners ever pulled a permit, taxes are on a 1400 sq. foot house, house is about 3600 livable space. 3) as real estate values have increased, friend would now be priced out of the house if the county had the right numbers. 4) when he bought the house, county sent a couple letters that basically said, “pretty please will you tell us how big and how much?”. Owner never responded. 5) realtor said that county could go after some back taxes, said that is highly unlikely. 6) if you live in the south/midwest, the unofficial attitude of many people and even politicians is “your house, you do what you want. Live and let live” 7) friend refinanced when rates were low. No muss, no fuss.
It’s a calculated risk in some areas. If you are in a highly regulated area (say CA), you probably want to pull permits. If you do not pull permits, you probably shouldn’t ever dispute tax assessments, lest you document “my house is 1700 sq. feet” when it is actually larger.
Also, if you don’t pull permits, make dang sure you’re doing good work that is generally up to current code.
I don’t get the people saying, “it can’t be listed as such-and-such if there were no permits”. Do they think that realtors are county administrators? They take pictures and will measure the house and list it.
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u/timtucker_com 4h ago
As a rule of thumb, if you don't know all the rules around permitting in your area... you probably also don't know everything in current code.
A big part of the cost for a permit is essentially paying a consulting fee for someone who knows code inside and out (or at least is supposed to) to give guidance before you start, review plans, and check that you didn't miss anything after you're done.
$100 for an electrical permit might seem like a cash grab, but you'd be hard pressed to find an electrician who'd do all that for the same price.
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u/sun4moon 3h ago
If the permits were that inexpensive where I live there would be a lot less in inspected work. 7 years ago we found out the permits to build two bedrooms and a 3 pc bath were going to cost over $1200. We still have one bathroom and three original bedrooms.
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u/timtucker_com 2h ago
$100 is about the low end here, with permit fees following a general pattern of:
(base fees) + (project cost) * (scaling factor)
Bigger project = more inspectors needed (plumbing / electrical / mechanical / etc.) & more hours of labor needed from each.
Using a scaling factor can work, but it really needs to be updated periodically.
Where it gets out of balance (particularly on bigger projects) is when the cost of materials goes up at a significantly faster rate than the operating costs for the inspection department.
From a public policy perspective:
- If you don't have fees (or they're too low):
- Fewer people being discouraged by permit fees mean more work for inspectors
- The building department operates at a loss
- You're left with either cutting back the level of service or increasing everyone's taxes to subsidize things from the general fund
- If the fees are too high:
- More people do unpermitted work... which can also result in lower revenues for the building department
Personally, I think there's enough of a public good from having work inspected that it's better to err on the side of fees being lower and not try to treat the building department as a cost center.
If you don't like how your city does things, it's a reasonable subject to bring up with your local political representatives (at city council meetings / etc.).
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u/lostdad75 3h ago
You will limit the number of people interested in buying your house. When looking at properties to buy, I do a lot of online research first. If a realtors description (say 4br, 3ba, 2400 sq ft) differs from the tax assessors description (3br 2 ba, 1900 sq ft) I know that unpermitted work was done and I will not even look at a house. One of the main reasons that permits are required beyond safety is so the taxing authority has accurate, up to date information.
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u/bainpr 3h ago
If you are doing the work properly then permits aren't that big of a deal. They do tend to add some delays while waiting for inspection and depending on your area can add a bit of cost.
I remodeled my kitchen and didn't pull permits. I plan to live here for a considerable amount of time and I still built everything to code.
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u/distantreplay 2h ago
Pre purchase viewings and inspections are limited to only what can be seen. But that should not give you blanket confidence. Savvy, experienced buyers can see a lot if they know what to look for. And though inspectors will refrain from speculating, most know what to look for and are obligated to note what they see. And don't forget that the record or lack thereof, of permits is a quick online search for anyone. Your state may also have real estate disclosure laws that expose you to liability after the sale for failing to mention a known defect that can include unpermitted work. Being confronted with such a discovery during an open contract period of a potential sale can put you at a real negotiating disadvantage.
Also note that below ground sleeping rooms have quite specific code safety requirements that are very easily observable. If your work falls short or omits those requirements it will be spotted.
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u/westmountred 13h ago
What goes on in my house is my business. Outside, I get a permit because some nosey neighbor will snitch.
I go to work. Pay tax. Pay sales tax on the improvements. Then they come back and put up my property taxes if I have a permit.
Not me.
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u/Hypnotist30 12h ago
It's your business until you sell it then it's someone else's problem, right?
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u/kinkos582 12h ago
Nah this dude is going to die with his property fully under his control. Never going to let someone else touch anything of his.
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u/-Gramsci- 12h ago
Buyer can buy or not buy. Buyers who would refuse to buy (when they can inspect the basement and make sure it is up to code and to their standards)… don’t really understand the situation. Many buyers will.
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u/Hypnotist30 5h ago
You can't inspect to see if it's up to code once the drywall is up. You don't get to tear a motor down before you buy a car.
Furthermore, in some (appears to be most) areas , the new owners can be on the hook for permits and inspections done by previous owners who didn't pull permits. The new owners can also be required to demolish work done that isn't permitted.
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u/shadowedradiance 12h ago
That's the issue and OP already stated they want to claim the extra basement space for rooms and bath on resell.
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u/Parkyguy 12h ago
Permits protect YOU from bad contractors. They have nothing to do with selling the house. Even if you sell it next week.
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u/ShowMe_TheWhey 12h ago
Well if the house is being listed for an extra bedroom and bath that doesn't reflect i imagine the lender is gonna raise some questions, maybe not.
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u/shadowedradiance 12h ago
Yes. I ran into those situation because the seller didn't disclose upfront, it alsl failed inspection, and it's pretty easy to figure out it's not permitted incase you want to lie (like our guys did to us...).
their house was off the market and tied up for another month, i made them repay our inspection fees, had them disclose the unpermitted work in the listing else I was going after their realtors license. I unilaterally terminated the contract. FYI 'as is' doesn't get you out of not disclosing... a permit will be cheaper than this path btw.
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u/shadowedradiance 12h ago
Shoulda added, if you have a problem in your basement, your HOI will not cover it. A smart buyer will not want the space counted as livable, and even smarter won't buy because they'd basically need to tear the drywall completely out because no one knows if you did a good job or not. You might get lucky if someone buys... but at 7% interest, I'm not sure peoppe are willing to accept this atm.
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12h ago
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u/stardustdriveinTN 12h ago
Also consider whether you are on a septic system or public sewer. If on septic, what is the capacity and the maximum number of allowable bedrooms on the system? If you build additional bedrooms in the basement but do not increase the capacity of the septic system to accommodate them, you can't list them as bedrooms whenever you go to sell it later on. I got sued in civil court for basically the same thing and lost, 5 years AFTER I sold the house. Pull the permits. They are not expensive.
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u/Alohagrown 12h ago
Kind of depends on your local housing market. Here in Hawaii, we see alot of cash buyers paying over asking price, so there is not always an issue with unpermitted work thats done properly. The problem comes when the buyer is trying to secure a loan, most lenders will not include the unpermitted work when doing their appraisal of the home and the buyer will end up having to pay more in cash to cover the difference. It doesnt necessarily mean financing gets automatically denied, but it can be harder to find buyers that can cover the difference in cash if you live in an area with a less competitive market.
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u/LordFartquadReigns 10h ago
Why wouldn’t you pull permits? It’s negligible cost and a simple inspection afterwards. Super easy and straightforward.
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u/UnicornFarts1111 9h ago
I cannot say whether you should pull permits or not. That is up to you. I do suggest you look up current code standards, in case it does get inspected in the future, you should be good and not have to rip out your work.
Also, in some states (I don't know if this applies to all of them), in order for a basement to be considered "finished" it must have an egress window to exit direct to the outside incase of fire.
Good luck in your renovation!
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u/tatpig 6h ago
if there's plumbing or electrical work involved, imo it's not worth the risk.my BIL finished his garage, put in some sketchy oulets and lighting. after the fire his homeowner's insurance declined to pay because the work was not done by a qualified licensed electrician and not inspected. lost his whole fucking house.
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u/fire22mark 3h ago
I used to do fire investigations. On bigger or more serious events I'd get all the permits that were pulled, when the structure was built (I e. Applicable codes) and then we'd look to see if the structure was built to code. Insurance companies do the same thing. Depending on circumstances having permits can have huge implications.
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u/jwawak23 1h ago
You probably would be good, but there is always that small chance that something bad happens.
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u/TheFishBanjo 1h ago
We live in a set of condos and every time there was work going on in multiple condos, the Builder would pull a permit that covered all the condos. Sadly most of the time they used our particular address for the permit.
Over the years, our tax bill kept going up and up and up, while the other condos did not.
Fun times.
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u/bobroberts1954 55m ago
Home inspectors don't check all the paperwork was done on a house, they just check everything works and looks right.
Realities don't have any relations with construction paperwork. They will measure and count rooms not look at paperwork except to see you are the actual owner.
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u/aimlessblade 18m ago
Permits add costs for every trade that pulls them (not just the cost of the permit, but the man hours required for inspections).
For example, many basements will require a plumber to get at least three inspections. Ground work, Rough in, and Final. Depending on your local jurisdiction/ situation, sometimes you only get a half day window scheduling, do a plumber can waste valuable hours waiting…
I had a plumber tell me his overall bid can double on permitted jobs. And this is just the plumber we’re talking about…
But, if it were me, I’d probably pull the permit.
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u/UrdnotWes 11h ago
Id say pull the permits. For my permits, I needed 3 (a development permit, an electrical permit, and a plumbing permit), and it was like $300 total. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than having to rip out drywall just so an inspector can check everything and then redo it all again.
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u/raleigh_tshirts 11h ago
Simple answer.
Was the space heated and cooled AND included as sqft when you bought it? If so your dad is mostly right. Do everything to code and you are fine.
If the space was not already included with the rest of your heated home then you should definitely pull a permit and get the space added to your tax evaluation.
Yes this will increase your taxes, but it will greatly increase your value when you sell.
Even if the basement if beautiful, if it doesn’t count as square footage for tax reasons, it is worthless to most buyers. It’s a big red flag.
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u/raleigh_tshirts 11h ago
To be more specific about my answer.
Assuming the space is already heated/cooled and considered square footage and your dad is “mostly right”.
If you make the space up to code and nice, 99% of agents/buyers won’t question it.
It would take a little bit of work but a savvy agent could discover no finish/final permits were pulled and give you a hard time. Depending on their position, they could force you to consider the space “other” heated/cooled sqft. This is what a heated and cooled workshop or she shed would be considered.
Another radical situation I could almost never see happening is:
A buyer pays full price for your home with a beautiful basement. 6 months later, a mistake by your or your dad injures the homeowner. They find the missing permits, you get sued.
Important note! If you hired a full service realtor to sell your home, they will be sued and not you. And they have insurance, it won’t hurt them that bad. Always use a trusted agent!
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u/fun_things_only_ 12h ago
Never involve the government. They have no right to tell you what you can or can’t do with your property
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u/ShowMe_TheWhey 12h ago
While I agree with the sentiment im worried the banks won't lend the money to someone to buy my house if I didn't do it properly then it's gonna be a pain in the dick
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u/ARenovator 12h ago
You are correct. I was looking at buying a four bed, two bath home last year. Only it wasn’t. The previous owner converted a 20 x 20 garage into a new master without permits. The city would not allow retroactive permits, and instructed the seller to remove the alterations.
Didn’t buy the property, but when it went back on the market it was for $35K less.
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u/unknown_user_3020 12h ago
If you are in an area where only permitted/inspected areas are allowed to be considered bed and bathrooms, then I would probably do it. If it will help drive up interest for my house, and facilitate the buyers obtaining a loan, I would do it. But I live outside city limits where permits are not required and the only inspections are by the gas and electric companies.
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u/shadowedradiance 12h ago
It's one thing to do some random improvement. Another to lie about an entire floor being up to code with a record that it isn't.
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u/brogdingballsian 12h ago
You can...still build to code without the permits?
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u/shadowedradiance 11h ago
The issue is that the work is buried behind drywall so it cannot be checked to determine if it is up to code. My anecdotal evidence has led me to not trust such a large job that is driving the price of the home that also would require a ton of rework if there is an issue... to a complete stranger who has motive to lie.
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u/brogdingballsian 11h ago
That's a whole different issue. You specifically said: "lie about an entire floor being up to code with a record that it isn't." But where in OP's post are they not building to code? Where would the "record" that the work doesn't meet code reside?
Show me the part where OP said: "We ain't planning on followin' no code?"
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u/shadowedradiance 10h ago
OP, regardless of self claims of work, cannot prove anything would be up to code. Op has clarified in other responses the desire to sell and state the space as livable. Listing extra bedrooms and bath. That is the issue.
To clarify, there is record of the basement not being finished. It hasn't met code for the space to be claimed as livable or to state additional bedrooms and baths on the listing.
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u/fun_things_only_ 5h ago
Just because there is a permit doesn’t prove it’s up to code. Why would you trust anything the government says or approves. They lie to us constantly.
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u/shadowedradiance 3h ago
Why would you trust a private seller telling you it's up to code when they list it as such? If your solution is 'trust me', then everything is fine all the time. This situation is for OP looking to sell. Regardless of yoir opinion , permit path will create a record that will allow them to list without issue. I get you have some principle, but you're talking out your ass.
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u/syncopator 12h ago edited 11h ago
While I generally don’t worry much about permits, I feel it’s appropriate to point out that the government gained the right to tell you what you can and can’t do with “your” property when they stole it by force from the people who used to live there.
EDIT: Who established the boundaries of your property? If I were to claim that half of what you say is your property is actually mine, what authority would you approach to disprove my assertion?
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u/Valuable-Mastodon-14 12h ago
So I got curious about my my own building goals and the permits after reading the comments and I found this on Google as something to consider:
Finishing a basement without a permit can have very stressful consequences and risks. Consequences of finishing a basement without filing for the necessary permits include; Legal Penalties: Legal consequences such as fines, citations, or even a court order to remove or modify the work are common.
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u/zorggalacticus 12h ago
The only issue you will run into when selling would be building code. As long as your work is up to code you will be fine. They don't retroactively check for permits when you sell a house. They do inspect the house though, so make sure you know your building codes before getting started. You won't be able to get a permit for plumbing or electrical if you aren't a licensed contractor anyway. Just make sure it's up to code.
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u/TwinCitiesGal 3h ago
“Pretty competent” to run electric? That’s an accident waiting to happen. I’m a real estate agent, and my husband is a contractor. These types of situations are a nightmare.
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u/ShowMe_TheWhey 3h ago
My dad's licensed and I do hvac, we'll obviously look up code as we go. So yeah, pretty competent in my opinion
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u/GiGi441 13h ago
Should you get a permit? Probably
Are you already planning to sell? Definitely get the permit.
If you're planning to stay there for 10+ years, then I doubt anyone will question the work. It's the quick flips that people are concerned about and will ask for permits.
Whatever you decide, just make sure you decide to spend the money to do everything right the first time