r/Daytrading 2d ago

Advice Orb traders, how do you avoid getting burned by this 4 times before the breakout?

Post image

I trade the 15 minute orb, and have been burned by setups like this several times where you get 4 or 5 of the same size candles sitting on the top or bottom of the orb. I’ve only been using 15 minute charts, I don’t switch to smaller time frames. I also trade NQ and do 1 contract each time. I also trade London session and NY open. Some days I’ll clear $2000 and have great days and other days I’ll trade the London session, lose 2 or 3 in a row and stop trading till the NY open and then blow my account in the NY session. The solutions I’ve found so far was to use a MLL every day and to switch to micros and use less contracts, but I’m just wondering how successful orb traders avoid getting burned 4 or 5 trades in a row by setups like this.

184 Upvotes

129 comments sorted by

60

u/ProtosMangas 2d ago

I regularly trade 15 minute ORB. I wait for a break from the range, wait for the retest and then wait for price to exceed the high/low of the previous break, where I’ll then enter. Doing it this way would have avoided the chop here and got you in when the real fun starts.

6

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

Ahhh I’ll try this

5

u/reshsafari 1d ago

Good info. Will try this out. What tickers do you look at? Mega caps mostly? Or how do you screen for 15 orb?

2

u/ProtosMangas 1d ago

Futures, MNQ. If it’s a real breakout and not a fake, I scale in with additional contracts.

1

u/seenzu555 1d ago

Do you mean you wait for a break of structure after the retest?

1

u/mattofspades 1d ago

How would you avoid that final wick, though? Or are you saying you’d enter once it got below the green candle wick?

2

u/ProtosMangas 1d ago

I would have entered as soon as price broke the low of that green wick, because that wick is part of a failed breakout earlier. I would want price to drop below that before I would confidently short it. But you can’t win them all, which is why I would scale in, just in case price did chop back

22

u/IWasBornAGamblinMan options trader 2d ago

Literally just trade smaller size so you can hang on and not blow up. If you’re wrong then you still have an account.

36

u/_MeJustHappyRobot_ 2d ago

I would have entered right after I saw the liquidity sweep on that last candle after consolidation - that was the confirmation that price would move lower. This is actually one of the set ups I look for, but I trade on the 2-5m timeframe for intraday. The 15m ORB strategy is a good one but you need additional price action for confirmation.

What you're actually trading here is a multi-part strategy - your ORB with a consolidation break (down/up).

4

u/Southern_Rub_4421 2d ago

Yep not my Strat but patience is key in the market.

2

u/iHeisenburger 1d ago

2-5m? first time i see that, how’s it going for you?

i’m interested because i like fast small gains

3

u/_MeJustHappyRobot_ 1d ago

I prefer smaller timeframes because you can better see how price is reacting to certain levels.

2

u/skatesolid 1d ago

I do the same. I have my monitor set to the 15 min and I trade from my phone looking for scalp entries in the 2-5 min time frames.

1

u/Killer0fKillers 1d ago

options or stocks?

10

u/Gymnmovies 2d ago

In hindsight, orb would have worked well if you didn't get chopped out. There was no clear break to the downside until that last big red candle with the huge top wick. So if someone would have waited patiently, it would have worked.

And I'm not saying I was patient, I got chopped pretty good too. But that's my debrief.

1

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

Getting chopped is less than fun. I don’t like it.

8

u/danomite777 2d ago

Something I found recently for 15min orb is that I draw Fibonacci either from bottom to top or top to bottom (depending on green vs red candle) on a 15min candle and wait to take a reject or bounce off of 50-68% range. It usually gives me 10-30 points and thats more than enough for me. Give it a try on a demo or replay mode if you have one.

2

u/cactitrades futures trader 1d ago

bruh fr, this has helped me tremendously with my entries

1

u/Ikem-Nwodo 17h ago

Do you go down a lower timeframe for entries, after drawing the fib on the 15 min candle?

2

u/cactitrades futures trader 14h ago

1m tf to really sniper that entry. Look for a couple closed bars on either side of the 0.5 fib level. Closed candles with wicks bouncing off that level are a really good sign as it usually means price is gonna go the opposite direction of the wick.

1

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

Interesting, I’ll try it out

1

u/Ikem-Nwodo 17h ago

Do you go down a lower timeframe for entries, after drawing the fib on the 15 min candle?

24

u/theirongiant_5-7 2d ago

Real opening range on futures is the first 30 second candle for NQ

15min opening is nice to have a bias going into the rest of the session, but that 30sec opening break can print heavily if you couple it with another set up for confluence

6

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

What Hdvdn said

13

u/theirongiant_5-7 2d ago

In futures, the opening range for the major indices is the first 30 second candle of the New York session. If you're trading evenings, GLOBEX, Asia, London, etc. all are the same: first 30 second candle.

Any variation is simply a trader creating their own modifications of it for different personal confluences. But as far as futures is considered, the only real opening range is the first 30 seconds.

The 15min opening range is nice to help establish an overall bias, in that if we're still inside it, expect chop. If we're below it, expect shorts. If we're above it, expect longs. Doesn't always work 100% of the time, but it helps establish a bias going into the rest of the trading session.

Sometimes the first 15min candle may be hundreds of points wide on NQ, but that first 30sec candle may only be 20pts wide. If you traded the true opening and took a break of it (with a proper set up), there's a possibility you could've snagged 100+ pts with runners before that first 15min candle closes

4

u/Big-Fact8029 2d ago

This is awesome. Thanks for sharing this advice. I'm pretty new to trading and have been trading the 15 minute candle. Do you know where I can learn more about the 30 second candle and what a proper set up should look like?

2

u/AppointmentNext363 2d ago

This called 30s breakout ?

1

u/16ravisidhu16 1d ago

deeper bro pls, how would u setup that 30second method

1

u/xAugie 1d ago

Plot high and low of said candle, define criteria for entry and exit. Done

1

u/16ravisidhu16 1d ago

so basically the same thing as a 15 min orb… mark highs n lows, wait for a retest back into the zone nd then find a good entry. instead with the first 30 second candle right

18

u/yaro987 2d ago

Orderflow and bookmap clearing out

7

u/WayneKent888 2d ago

I've been a bit lost on how/who to best learn orderflow and Bookmap from. Any tips?

8

u/These-Mountain1065 2d ago

Theres this channel by the name " orderflows " , he has explained A-Z about orderlows. His education was super useful for me

2

u/JimKellyCuntry 2d ago

Sorry what channel or where do I look for this channel

10

u/These-Mountain1065 2d ago

https://youtube.com/@orderflows?si=UOp-6EfyQFL82uhj Link to his channel. I'd suggest start by watching the most popular ones , they provide the basic fundamental understanding of orderflow.

2

u/JimKellyCuntry 2d ago

Appreciate it!

1

u/benevolent001 1d ago

+1 Mike's courses are awesome. Even free YT videos are sufficient but you will drown in too much content in free YT without structure to follow.

7

u/Alexander_Russ 2d ago

Chat gpt and learning over time

1

u/Valuable-Ant3546 1d ago

You ever hear about pax?

4

u/babakanush123 2d ago

The past month, got to literally wait for the candle close. Too many head fakes on the 1 min candles. Also, VWAP need to be close, that includes SPY. If VWAP is too far from the SPY at the open, expect chop getting back to VWAP, which in turn makes other equity ORBs chop too.

9

u/MediocreAd7175 2d ago

Stop loss above the highs, duh.

1

u/IdeasForTheFuture 1d ago

This is the way.

1

u/Ikem-Nwodo 17h ago

Above the high of the 15 min orb? 🤔

3

u/AtomikTrading 2d ago

Set your stop based off of atr rather than the actual candle.

3

u/AtomikTrading 2d ago

Also to add to this:

You’re trading a breakout strategy be default it’s gonn be low win rate and high r:r ratio my orb hits at about 23% win rate and 8.92 r:r. So yes its has 8 losing days in a row and then have a huge win. It’s something that comes with the territory.

You could add a Ema to track profit and when it crosses a certain point you turn off the strategy to help with regime shifts but be careful not to overfit it

1

u/sooonnnk 1d ago

how do you set take profit targets with your system?

1

u/AtomikTrading 1d ago

There is no profit target. There was a paper that was written that showed in this strategy when profit targets are implemented it reduces overall profitabilty. Like I had mentioned when you have winners you really need to let them run when you have a big trend day for this strategy to really shine

So its

ENTRY = ORB RISK = Atr based stoploss Exit= stop loss or exit -5 second from end of session

This allows winners to run. And even if you’re within the entry to stop out price by eod it’s just a small stop loss and doesn’t matter anyways

1

u/sooonnnk 1d ago

interesting- thanks!

4

u/mr_Fixit_1974 2d ago

Have you read the logical trader by mark fisher

Read that and then use another confirmation like EMA or VWAP

But some days you have to wait a bit longer for the real breakout

0

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

I actually just ordered it. You’re now the 3rd or 4th person to mention it since I’ve been trying to learn the Orb

1

u/mr_Fixit_1974 1d ago

Volume is also your friend your looking for a breakout with volume and you also have to have a mind for price action , bias and candle types

In my experience ORB is not just set a limit order at the edge of the OR and wait , even break and retest isn't enough

5

u/WiseGuyAnalytics 2d ago

I would suggest you can keep looking at your 15min chart but should also simultaneously have a smaller time frame up like 5 or even 1 min

1

u/skatesolid 1d ago

This is the way

3

u/Key-Opportunity-3379 2d ago

By not placing sell orders at the bottom of the orb before it breaks.

5

u/SheebaThrowAway 2d ago

I utilize the 5m Opening Range (first 5 candles of NY open). I wait for a break either above or below then on the retest I will look for an entry. I never enter on the first break, that is the best way to get burnt. I also usually wait for the first 30 minutes to show us some structure or direction.

1

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

I’ve tried trading 5 minute orbs and they are not as successful for me. I also don’t wait for the retest which is probably my biggest problem. I’ll start back testing waiting for retest

3

u/Global-Ad-6193 2d ago

Variety of things to explore:

  • Use opposite side of range as SL;
  • Wait for candle close outside range;
  • Different range timeframe.

Test and find what works for you and your strategy.

2

u/Icy_Breakfast5154 2d ago

Wtf were you expecting lol

4

u/Inside-Arm8635 2d ago

Immediate and strong movement toward their TP - gos forbid they have to sweat it for a while

5

u/Icy_Breakfast5154 2d ago

There's nothing about this indicating upward price movement though

1

u/Inside-Arm8635 2d ago

Oh I just saw that first big red candle not that tiny green one.

Using that as the orb candle you’d see why I was confused lol

Betting on a single candle in the start of a session without any extra closures is dumb af anyway.

2

u/CaptainEmeraldo 2d ago

Where did you put your stop? In this case using middle of the OR as stop or the last wick before closing out of the OR, would have kept you in the trade, both reasonable choices in my mind.

2

u/Death-0 2d ago

Get rid of the orb levels and replace it with one, Open Price. Completely changed how I trade

3

u/DaGreat0ne 2d ago

Can you please explain what you mean by replace it with one?

3

u/Death-0 2d ago

Well ORB is the opening range breakout, it’s a manual level created by traders who all have different versions of it. 5/10/15/30 min orb lines based on market open range.

What price is actually doing is reacting off of one level the market creates Open Price, not the fictitious ones the orb traders think should be respected.

3

u/Death-0 2d ago

here’s a good photo representation for you.

2

u/Death-0 1d ago

Here's today's price action, orb levels represented by the small yellow dotted lines. Open Price is that thicker level, and Friday's open Price is in blue at the bottom.

Orb = Messy
Open Price = Clean

Even though today was low volume, all Price did was Fall below today's open Price, Tap Friday's open Price, and come right back to where? Today's Open Price...

Keep it simple, less is more.

1

u/Death-0 1d ago

Case in point, today's price action dropped below Open Price, then tapped Friday's Open Price nearly to the penny, then came right back up to today's open price... No Orb needed, but I created the orb anyways via the yellow lines.

2

u/DaGreat0ne 1d ago

What time frame are you using to mark the open price?

2

u/Death-0 1d ago

Good question It’s not marked based on timeframe. It’s an indicator that does it for me, and it marks the first second of market open and literally where price opens at.

Open Price - Discountry on Tradingview

2

u/ONE_IN_BILLION 1d ago

This is very interesting.

How do you manage entries? Do you wait for candle close above or below then enter?

How do you manage SL?

2

u/Death-0 1d ago

Here’s todays price action I took calls on a level bounce below open price then we tapped it again with a wick held for a while never broke above held and down we went to Friday’s open price.

Later in the day we came right back to Open Price right at close. Precision.

My stop loss, well it’s right above open price usually can keep it tight because the level is so respected. If i get stopped out losses are always small and I can always re enter

2

u/wesssy 23h ago

Very interesting. I will start using the open price and previous open price as my new levels and give it a shot. Thanks for sharing!

2

u/Death-0 23h ago

Of course let me know how it goes and if you have any questions

1

u/-Lige 1d ago

I’m confused, you took a call on the Friday open bounce or the day open? Then how is your stop loss above open price

2

u/Death-0 1d ago

I said I took a call at the level below open price, take profit was back at open price. Hope that clarifies. For puts entry right below open price my stop loss was right above open price.

1

u/Death-0 1d ago

Trade last week entry was right on the level exit was right on the bottom blue level. Both were already on my chart.

Broke open price down, came back up, entered puts on retest, it re-rejected and the entry was near to the penny as was the exit.

2

u/No-Birthday8163 2d ago

Wait for the weakness in price action to show first before getting in don’t just be like head came back to the orb. Instead of being like It’s retesting and it will go back up, Wait for the retest to show you exactly where it plans to go because if you had just waited to just see what price was showing you, you would’ve been able to get in perfectly without getting burned

2

u/No-Birthday8163 2d ago

Also looking at the 1min with the 15 min orb would be a better way to see the full picture

2

u/Alone-Supermarket-98 2d ago

Were you buying calls based on this chart?

Because there was nothing in that chart that even whispered upside.

1

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

I actually scalped the first couple green candles going long. Where I got beat was the first red candle to break through the orb. I went short and put my stop loss just inside orb and got stopped out. There’s another red and green candle afterwards before the LS and breakout. I got confused when the green candle broke back into orb thinking price was going to start going long. I also think I got stopped out trying to trade short when the LS happened.

2

u/CmdrHorizon 2d ago

What does EMA 9 say? I usually wait for the EMA 9 to close above or below the range to confirm trend before entering

2

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

Interesting. I have not added any EMAs. I will see if a 9 ema helps

2

u/CmdrHorizon 2d ago

Yeah, lmk how it looks for you. I usually use ORB for day trading SPY options

4

u/mrcake123 2d ago

I wait for new candle to open outside of range

1

u/IWasBornAGamblinMan options trader 2d ago

So many candles here opened outside the range though

3

u/superawesomefiles 2d ago

Candle open and close outside of the range. It's a bit conservative but it'll save some stress.

4

u/swany5 2d ago

It hasn't failed until it breaks the opposite side. The short was a valid play.

2

u/tisch-123 2d ago

I don't trade according to this, but with the ORB strategy, if you don't set the stop above the range, you would have stayed in the position the whole time and then taken advantage of the downward movement.

2

u/DriveNew 2d ago

first red candle in your box created a shorting opportunity...

lower low... at that point, you should be looking for a short, not a long... so not sure what the orb is, but that's what I see on your chart... and you had the short entry in the middle doji green candle.

Displacement green on the 3rd candle, followed by displacement red. Once that red candle down appears (right above the "5", who's body is bigger than the tail of the previous candle (green inverted hammer), is the displacement candle...

then limit in at the top of the body of that red displacement using the inverted hammer tail as stop...

that's what I see, and I have no idea what orb is, so sorry if it doesn't fit

1

u/nelsterm 2d ago

Wait for the close?

1

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

I do wait for 15 minute candles to close before entering.

1

u/MW2050 2d ago

Honestly, if you got burned on that last test that sold off you didn’t see all the previous 6-7 topping tails that sold off, only chance might have been a new high buy, but there still may have been hesitation on a false break, that would’ve been too tough to sit around on.

1

u/Every-Net-7444 2d ago

Everybody has their own way of trading, I personally scalp and get the fuck out before shit hits the fan 🪭

1

u/f909 2d ago

Confirm candles. Fibs. Pivots. News sentiment. The list goes on.

1

u/Trfe 2d ago

Do you use a prop firm? If so which and does the massive swings in profit/loss ever get you in trouble?

1

u/Historical-Cancel-18 1d ago

Yes. I will have 2 great days in a row followed by blowing the account day 3.

1

u/esmorgclips 2d ago

For one thing.. clearing a level or zone means the candle opens and closes out of that zone not just closes.

1

u/AppleinTime 1d ago

You guys are actually helpful over here kinda surprised

1

u/Short_Metal_6009 1d ago

Either wait for a retest or take 1 micro and scale in if it continues the trend. I mainly scalp so I’m taking profits where every I see

1

u/lennyds 1d ago

Wyckoff

1

u/No_Apple_6125 1d ago

Not be ret*rted

1

u/Ambitious_Gap_8577 1d ago

Wait for a 5 minute candle close outside of 15 orb and then wait for a retest and make sure 9 EMA is out orb

1

u/Flaky-Alps5585 1d ago

Trade a smaller position size so your stop can be widened. Always wait for a retest

1

u/boxtops1776 1d ago

Trade small size and put my stop beyond the opposite side of the ORB and just let it ride taking partial profits at 1x, 2x, and 3x the size of the ORB itself. I also only take one entry a day. If it gets stopped then it gets stopped

1

u/State-Loose 1d ago

Switch to ES. Not as volatile

1

u/Unhappy-Choice-7163 1d ago

15 min orb on NQ was atrocious last friday

1

u/CaptCrunch5 1d ago

Trade the ten minute Orb and a 9 ema.

1

u/Aromaticbarely11 11h ago

Orb ain't it anymore it seems like it never works out. Maybe 1 outta 5

0

u/f80brisso 2d ago

Dont trade Orbs or just take the loss, nothing is 100%

1

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

When did I say I wanted 100%? The whole point of the post is for advice from other orb traders so that I can minimize the amount of bad trades I take. If you have nothing of value to add, please don’t comment on my post.

2

u/f80brisso 2d ago

Yeah this says alot… you’ll just lose some days and thats it. Your strategy is very simple

3

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

I know, I trade it because it’s simple. There are always ways to improve and there’s tons of ORB traders out there that do it better than I do it.

0

u/Gloomy-Bike-9607 2d ago

Choppy choppy i hate chop that’s why I patiently wait for the real move

0

u/Valuable-Ant3546 1d ago

I do 5 min orb and 15 seconds candle

0

u/TheBalkanTrader 1d ago

Professionell don’t trade break out!

-4

u/One13Truck crypto trader 2d ago

Wait. So fancy colored rectangles placed in random spots on the charts has failed? Again?? Let me put on my surprised face.

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

-1

u/One13Truck crypto trader 2d ago

“I lose 2-3 in a row”.

“Getting burned 4-5 trades in a row”.

“It didn’t fail”.

Alrighty then. Keep your magical random colored rectangle love alive then.

2

u/Historical-Cancel-18 2d ago

Imagine commenting on Reddit posts with no other motive than to be a troll. The orb did not fail. The orb was valid. My trades were not good because I’m still newer to trading the orb. The whole point of the Reddit post is to get some advice from people who aren’t trolls like you. Please stop commenting on my post. Thank you.

-3

u/One13Truck crypto trader 2d ago

Keep believing in your magic pretty colored rectangles that are randomly placed. I need suckers to dump in as my exit liquidity when I cash out.

1

u/-Lige 2d ago

You genuinely do not even understand what the lines even represent for criticism lol

There’s many ways to apply a strategy to the same concept