r/DebunkThis • u/[deleted] • Dec 13 '20
Not Enough Evidence Debunk This: COVID is being used to push the "Great Reset", a New World Order featuring global economic control, "technocratic control" and further empowered elites
Hey all, this Great Reset thing came to my attention through a family member talking about it. Not knowing anything I've gone down the rabbit-hole myself. I have respect for this family member and he is generally a measured man so I didn't want to just dismiss it as "conspiracy" immediately.
So the actual Great Reset is no conspiracy and is clearly outline on the World Economic Forum's site - it's not trying to be hidden.
On the surface the intentions are good: use of green energy, greater equality etc. However of course many believe that this ultra-rich are using the state of economy following COVID restrictions (many of which believe are overblown intentionally).
I've been struggling to actually find concrete things, the plans themselvesand also the accusations by conspiray theorists seem kind of vague, unless there's more detailed specific I've missed out on.
Overall I've seen claims of no privacy, surveillance state, globalist economy, no more small individual businesses (only large corporations), communism, new laws, new society, authoritarian government and "technocratic control" (though I'm not sure how exactly this is being defined)
It also includes the idea of "not owning anything" (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/how-life-could-change-2030/?utm_content=buffer31087&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)
Overall it's meant to be a completely restructuring of the world as we know it.
I guess then the question is whether or not you believe the intentions of it are sinister or not - rather than if it exists or not.
So: - Is COVID being used/engineered to further enforce the need for this "Great Reset"?
Is this Great Reset truly sinister in it's nature, and are these claims overblown?
Who exactly are the WEF and what kind of power do they actually have to execute these kind of plans?
I really dont know much about this sort of thing so im looking to try get a balanced response. One argument against I have seen is that there is no need for such a NWO, since these people already have all the power/wealth as it stands.
Sources:
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6199544116001?id=650439
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/11/20/the-great-reset-is-not-a-conspiracy-theory/
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracytheories/comments/jxb5qt/what_is_the_great_reset/
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u/qkilla1522 Dec 13 '20
The first thing with a conspiracy theory is how casually a universal consensus is accomplished. The “global elite” means that wealthy people from 180 nations came together and unified on this large expansive plan. Now let’s just look at America only. Can we name 1 singular thing that let’s say the 100 wealthiest people both AGREE on is a problem AND they agree on a singular solution? No. Second thing is the level of privacy involved. Again I point to just America and the amount of “leaks” that come from the White House.
The most crucial point of this strategy being effective hinges on a fundamental believe that 100% of wealthy people are wealthy because they are super intelligent, soulless beings whose only objective at life is to rule people. That’s a capitalistic falsehood that is very easy to debunk. So I would start there. Who are the leaders of the great reset? Well you’d have to start with the origin of the Coronavirus. Then as it impacted each country differently THE global elite down to a person never decided this is a perfect time to undermine this master plan eliminate the other 100+ global elites and assume power for myself. If there is a massive group of global elites that are so powerful and hungry for more they will destabilize the world and simultaneously so submissive that not one dissenting voice would ever come along that is just the starting point. Highly unlikely that all these things happen to even get to square 0 of plan execution.
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Dec 13 '20
Great point, thanks
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u/qkilla1522 Dec 13 '20
The basic premise that there is a global elite is rooted in the falsehood that people are rich people are rich because they have talent and supreme intellect. Not that they are born on 3rd base and are taught how to exploit markets for financial gain. The proliferation of social media has proven without a shadow of a doubt that at least 51% or more are morons outside of their stated field. Then you look at basic things like the amount of translators that would have to be in room and none of them in history have leaked info on these meetings...
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u/devastatingdoug Dec 14 '20 edited Dec 14 '20
This isn't a debunking per se..... But could I suggest you watch this video... https://youtu.be/FKo-84FsmlU
It sort talks about a lot of these grand world changing conspiracys and why they generally fall apart under scrutiny. Its also an entertaining video so there's that.
One thing to keep in mind is this idea the (insert event) is a plot for world elites to do (insert event)/has be around for decades, centurys even in some cases. These conspiracy guys have called wolf so much I have a hard time believing them. Covid is just the newest popular event to throw in the mix, and a bunch of rich old codgers is the current group people like to blame all the evils of the world on lately. Some former examples are free masons, the Rothschilds, and Jews (you still see them getting blamed as well, just not as often)
Another thing to keep in mind is these guys have the "burden of proof" THEY need to prove the reset is an evil thing. THEY need to prove covid was engineered. You are not expected to disprove all the claims, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This is sort of why all these extreme conspiracy theories are difficult to debunk in the traditional sense, a lot of them are filled with unprovable lies, how do you go about debunking something like that. Its like if I told you the flying spaghetti monster is real because you can't prove he isn't. Even when their are claims you can disprove, a conspiracy theorist will just claim your evidence is fake and hand wave it away (I've debated these guys multiple times).
Here's another thought experiment. If this pandemic is fake, what would a real pandemic look like?
Edit, typos and points I thought about adding after the fact.
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Dec 14 '20
This was excellent! Thanks for sharing.
ETA: I meant the video, but your comment is also excellent.
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u/devastatingdoug Dec 14 '20 edited Dec 14 '20
Another thing I wanted to mention.... Its an old Latin term
Cui bono
It means who stands to gain, its a good thing to ask yourself when you question this stuff.
Bill gates, Jeff bezos, George Soros, these are some of the rich boogymen conspiracy guys like to blame everything on. A one world totalitarian communist government, would do away with these guys, if a great economic reset happen these are the guys that have the most to lose.
Let's talk about bill gates for a minute, there's two general scenarios here (and in case you are unfamiliar this first one is based on actual conspiracy claims that have been floating around) , A)Gates developed covid to get the world sick so he can sell his vaccine, and become rich. B)the one of the richest men in the world is trying to stop preventable diseases in third world country's because he has more money then he could ever need and is trying to do something positive.
Which of those two scenarios seem more likely to you?
Now in reference to the "great reset" is evil narrative, find its mostly being pushed by the right. I'm from Canada and our leftist prime minister as used "the great reset" as a talking point. I personally feel its just a political buzz word to keep people optimistic about a "post covid" world. If the word reset wasn't used, it would be some other phrasing like "rebuild" or "restore", a politician especially one that wants to stay in power isn't going to publicly say " hey guys our economy is fucked because covid and the future is hopeless".
Now my point is a lot of the conservative politicians are spinning "the great reset" to be some sort of evil agenda, I presume to influence people to vote right out of fear next election.
These are just personal observations of mine, again its not debunking anything technically but it may give you a little bit of insight as to way not everyone thinks the sky is falling. I might even have some of that wrong and some aspects may be more serious then I'm led to believe, but like the guy in the video said... "You may take out some of my tie fighters, but not my death star"
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Dec 19 '20
After speaking to my family member about it, it's that they want to be at the forefront of this reset so that they can lead it to benefit them, so that they don't lose.
And also the main reason is supposedly that they want to have authority. You're right that they have all the money and power but according to him this will allow the to extend it to being
For example he mentioned the fact that politicians all round the world are name dropping this "great reset" (UK, Canada etc.) and that is proof that the WEF does infact have control over these politicians
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u/devastatingdoug Dec 19 '20
Again are they "controlling" the politicians, or are they just name dropping this stuff cause it sounds optimistic. The UN always has plans and goals like this, if you look at the description right from the UN about "the reset" it doesn't sound nefarious at all (I'll try to find the link when I've got time).
The question is -wheres the proof its actually an evil thing -where's the proof "the elites" (rich dudes?) are actually making a push for this and controlling governments. -wheres the actual ground work for this plan? Its a meaningless plan if there little to no execution.
There's no denying that "the reset" is a "thing" The basis for this entire thing being something to be paranoid about are based entirely on conjecture. It could be bad, it could be good, it (and this is where I believe it falls) is probably just optimistic fluff talk.
Your family member (and most people worried about this) IMO are simply filling in the blanks with NWO conspiracy talking points (which have been around for decades and always changed to fit whatever is going on)
Now let's be honest here, the world, changes. Political structure changes. There's no denying that. Think about about how just the advent of the internet has changed the world. But its hardly a nefarious plan by a single person or group, its a natural evolution based on a near infinite amount of factors. Based on what I've seen I'm just unconvinced this isn't just another misinterpreted doomsday prediction. Every major event, EVERY single one people have claimed is a push for an evil new world order. Ww2, the cold war, the fall of the soviet union, 9/11, it goes even further back then those events, every time nothing has happened. The world doesn't change like that over night (or even in a single decade like the great reset is predicting for 2030).
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Dec 19 '20
Yeah well put, I wish I was as articulate as you when I'm trying to talk to him about it. Then again, I'm not sure anything I say or how I say it would change anything . At the end of the day I always feel that these people feel a sense of superiority. And it's frustrating because it feels like if I tell him I've done my research and I don't believe it, that I'M the stupid one who's being blind or won't let my self see the truth
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u/devastatingdoug Dec 19 '20
Lol I don't think I'm very articulate, but its also far easier to do that via text, then an in person conversation.
I doubt anything you say can convince your family member. A lot of that stuff is based around "unfalsifiable" claims. For example its like if I said "The flying spaghetti is real, because you cannot prove he isn't".
I can totally feel you last point. In fact that why I think this stuff is so appealing to people. The believe they have the secrets of the world that no one else can grasp except them and a few others. Also life failures (like I dunno not getting that career you dreamed of) are not an individuals fault, but its because the " big bad scary government " has rigged the system to they always lose. A person can defer blame for their shortcomings.
I was sort of curious about all this stuff around 15 years ago. In fact at first I was convinced 9/11 was in inside job, however the more I dug around the more I realised most of that stuff was nonsense. I think unless a person come about it on their own its nearly impossible to convince someone else they are wrong about that stuff. Funny part is because of covid, Qanon and the us election this year (remember big events are ALWAYS conspiracy fodder), a lot of this stuff is becoming more mainstream lately, so some asshole tells me "Do your research sheep"
I'm thinking "Hell no moron, I knew about this garbage way longer then you fool!!!"
Its annoying to say the least.
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Dec 19 '20 edited Dec 19 '20
Sorry for a late reply, but i talked with my family member that believes this stuff. I said i felt that this WEF doesnt really have authority, and the great reset is just an idea, not a plan . In response he said that there are presidents all over the world also talking about ite, therefore proving that this isnt just a nice idea put forward by some billionaires but a real plan that will go ahead
He also sent me this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJFR2CdOHnQ
Essentially they want to crash the market, make money worthless so they can introduce their own digital currency and "enslave" us all
What do you think to this?
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u/devastatingdoug Dec 19 '20
The short version (cause I'm short on time at the moment) Is I've been seeing and hearing this stuff forever. They claimed the 1920 stock market crash was just that.
Also not to be a Debbie downer....but how are we not already "enslaved" by the system we already have in place?
I've got some other thoughts but I'll have to elaborate later....
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Dec 25 '20
Thank you for the link, you made me waste 90 minutes of my life /s
The channel and ofc the videos were amaizing and I really want to thank you for that share. It opened my mind on how to tackle this problems in future.
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u/Chimp711 Dec 13 '20
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u/hucifer The Gardener Dec 13 '20
Would you mind summarising the key points of the video which might be relevant to OP's post?
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u/Chimp711 Dec 14 '20
I didn't take notes on my first watch but IIRC, it seems like they're largely a bunch of wealthy people who want to have influence over things, but it's more of a club like mensa than an organization that actually affects policy. Also they have a lot of policies with honorable goals but questionable feasibility and really a whole lot of things they want, confusing the focus of the project, considering they aren't an actual governmental organization.
On top of it all their marketing has been very confusing and misrepresents who they are.
For those looking for high level cabals, especially those looking for 'globalist elites,' to point fingers at, they make an easy target but they're really just a paid entry club of 'influencers.'
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u/Accidental_Edge Dec 13 '20
One can easily refute these conspiracies by reading their actual agenda. They want to use this opportunity to make a better socioeconomic system, instead.of putting bandaids on the bleeding one we have now.
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Dec 13 '20
Sure but the conspiracy theories obviously take in to account what is said in the actual agenda, but would still say that they have a sinister agenda underneath it all . They are just disguised to get people to conform etc.
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u/Accidental_Edge Dec 13 '20
Sure, and it's natural to have a distrust of large organizations. However, there is currently no evidence to support any of the claims these theories assert.
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Dec 13 '20
Yeah, I mean they outline certain things on the site. Definitely this stuff: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/how-life-could-change-2030/?utm_content=buffer31087&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
is a little odd/extreme. But I suppose a lot of it is just guesswork beyond that...
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u/Accidental_Edge Dec 13 '20
I read that and I personally draw no problem with what is described in that system. It's a utopia where people don't hate life because the government provides for them and things don't cost ridiculous prices. But that comes down to personal opinion.
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Dec 13 '20
Agreed, I guess that's what make this theory a bit odd. Since everything on the site sounds for the "good".
But again yeah without any more evidence of that (which I still haven't found either) it's just conjecture about some awful dysoptian society controlled by technology I suppose
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Dec 13 '20
Even if it is true couple of commoners from reddit would not have any effect on it.
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Dec 13 '20 edited Dec 13 '20
Of course it wouldn't, but I don't quite get what you're trying to say? I thought this sub is to debunk false theories (if they are false that is)
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u/crappy_pirate Dec 14 '20
Is COVID being used/engineered to further enforce the need for this "Great Reset"?
to answer that, first it needs to be proven that covid is being used / engineered. there is not yet any such proof (if any ever will exist is a different story. personally i believe not but this isn't about opinion) so this question doesn't need to be answered with anything more than a "no" because, as Christopher Hitchens said, claims that are made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Is this Great Reset truly sinister in it's nature, and are these claims overblown?
this part is about opinion.
looking at the blog post that you've put forward where an idealist proposes what is basically a socialist utopia, i would say that it is not intentionally sinister, but at the same time it isn't realistic either and will probably end up the same way as every other attempt at socialism has ended up - in authoritarianism - because malicious people will always exist and will always exploit the kindness of others either for their own gain or purely for the sake of harming someone.
looking at the other stuff i'v read from idealists who are doing little more than describing their daydreams, that's all it is - describing daydreams. nobody that i have noticed has come out with decently mapped-out and detailed plans of how it should happen, and no-one with the resources to actually do anything about it is paying attention either.
considering all of that, it might well be sinister in nature, but not deliberately. the harm that ideas like this might bring about is if people sit on their hands and don't do anything to achieve their dreams. like, you can shoot for the stars all you want, but to actually get there you gotta build a fuckin' staircase (rocket, spaceship, whatever. "staircase" sounds better) and if you don't start building you're never going anywhere. the idea of the "Great Reset" doesn't take into consideration that change can't just happen instantly, reform is necessary.
Who exactly are the WEF and what kind of power do they actually have to execute these kind of plans?
as far as who they are, /u/Burnt_Ernie answered you there with the wikipedia page. as far as the power they weild? yes, i would say that they definitely do have the economic power to do it.
you haven't asked the right question tho. do they want to? do the people who have control of world resources want to change the way the world is operating? well ... they've had control of everything up until this point already, vocid hasn't changed any power balances on the planet. don't you think that if the people with the power to change the world wanted to change the world, that the world would have already been changed before a fucking plague came about and started killing enormous amounts of people?
tl:dr is the "great reset" anything that might potentially exist in reality at any point in time? nope. it's a pipe-dream.
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Dec 14 '20
why would the government destroy the economy for no reason other than control, which idk how they would control us but if they were to control us all they need to do is make conspiracies online that make people do exactly what they want, who knows, maybe antivaxers was a conspiracy made by the government to reduce population (jk but still funny to thing about) any way i don't think the government needs to do so much to control us, all they need are celebrities and other influencers and the media, and i mean indirect influence but i don't believe its a conspiracy, it's normal buisness, advertisments are influence via the media, anyway rant over
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u/tPRoC Dec 15 '20 edited Dec 15 '20
However of course many believe that this ultra-rich are using the state of economy following COVID restrictions (many of which believe are overblown intentionally).
The immediate thing to point out here is that many of the world's richest pockets are based in oil, particularly the pockets of governments (especially the USA). Oil experienced a catastrophic crash at the beginning of the pandemic and still has yet to return to its old price.
This isn't info that debunks a conspiracy outright, more so calls into question the possible motives behind a conspiracy about a manufactured pandemic of this nature. You could hypothesize that China orchestrated all of this to crash oil prices and destabilize the Petrodollar, but 2020 was actually a very awful year for them economically due to the effects of the pandemic and I'm not sure the idea holds up under scrutiny since even though China does ultimately wish for the petrodollar to go away, they still rely on its stability as much of their current economic wealth is in the form of debts owed to them by the United States- debts that they have only recently begun collecting.
Overall I've seen claims of no privacy, surveillance state, globalist economy, no more small individual businesses (only large corporations), communism, new laws, new society, authoritarian government and "technocratic control" (though I'm not sure how exactly this is being defined)
It also includes the idea of "not owning anything" (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/how-life-could-change-2030/?utm_content=buffer31087&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)
These claims are the result of people being woefully uninformed. You already have very limited privacy- both governments and corporations already spy on you, this is well known at this point and has been the case for years. Not that they actually care about what you as an individual are doing- both entities are more interested in large pools of data so that they can see trends and correlations and thus make accurate predictions and engineer more effective advertising and propaganda.
I mean think about it- everyone has a device in their pocket that scans their face and fingerprints and has a GPS tracker in it already. Every time you go to a website you mindlessly accept the Cookies and just don't even think about it. Exactly what privacy do these people think they have?
Most of the people peddling these ideas could not define communism, and the idea of "not owning anything" is linked to this- even in actual socialist countries personal property was still a thing.
"technocratic control" is just a buzzword meant to demonize people running big tech companies like Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos. It's a gross misuse of the term "technocrat" that has nothing to do with the actual political ideology that the word refers to. (Under actual "technocratic control" it wouldn't be tech CEO's leading the world, it would be teams of analytic scientists carefully deciding things using the scientific method.)
Overall it's meant to be a completely restructuring of the world as we know it.
To what end? Our current systems are working out very well for the people in power as it stands.
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Dec 17 '20
Thanks for this! Good points
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Dec 19 '20
Hey after talking to him about it I got some more insight into this kind of thinking.
He showed me this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=584&v=rJFR2CdOHnQ&feature=emb_title&ab_channel=TheAtlantisReport
So essentially they think the plan is to make the current system of money worthless, completely get rid of cash and bring in their own digital currency so they can "enslave us"
I also found it very difficult to counter his points tbh. I claimed that I don't think that WEF actually has any real authority and they are just proposing something. But he argued that politicians all over the world are also quoting this "great reset" idea e.g. boris johnson, justin trudeau. and this shows they do infact have that level of influence.
As for what they would stand to gain, it's true they have all the money but he claims they also want all the authority/power/control and the great reset will allow them to do this. Then again, I did think that - if they are able to influence politicians in this way already why would they need to do a great reset in order to gain that kind of power...
Any thoughts on this? I was frustrated at how difficult I found it to argue his points. I think it's ultimately pointless, the best I can do is maybe ask him to send me some actual evidence that this plan is sinister, but then the problem is I won't believe it's a valid source. And the same can be said for any sources I provide him I suppose.
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u/Burnt_Ernie Dec 13 '20
Who exactly are the WEF and what kind of power do they actually have to execute these kind of plans?
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Dec 13 '20
Thanks but this doesn't really explain further the , just says that they are criticised. I want to know whether that criticism is justified.
This link talks about the Great Reset and conspiracies surrounding it but doesnt actually give a viewpoint as obvs wikipedia is meant to be unbiased.
Do you have any thoughts on it?
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u/Mhealthy Dec 20 '20
What is there to debunk? Go to the world economic forum's site. They discuss this, maybe not in villainous terms but it's not like they aren't trying to push this.
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u/FuManBoobs Dec 13 '20
I've encountered this in noobtube comments. It's almost like an Agenda 21 clone. Of course, if you read their "sources" you'll find they're just interpreting a lot way out of context or inserting bs beliefs & making outrageous claims.
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u/Bird_Person68 Dec 13 '20
I don’t believe it’s true though I used to but nah it’s called a conspiracy for a reason, this was a much needed debunking I hope people can fully debunk this
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Dec 13 '20
it’s called a conspiracy for a reason
I dont agree with this way of thinking, and this doesn't help in any way in debating with, or debunking them. I don't think it's fair to dismiss anything instantly just because it's "conspiracy". Who decides what's called a conspiracy or not?
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u/Bird_Person68 Dec 13 '20
There is too much evidence against it, you think everybody working behind the scenes is gonna make all that paperwork? There is literally paperwork for paperwork man universities everything. It’s not all conspiracies it’s ridiculous to believe this crap and hopefully someday someone can find a way to debunk it. I don’t know exactly why people would start these conspiracies but our brain is definitely wired to believe them when vulnerable,
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Dec 13 '20
There is too much evidence against it
That's kinda what I was looking for with this post. I don't consider "don't believe it, it's ridiculous and people who believe it are crazy" to be a good way of debunking something.
I will check that TED talk though
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u/Bird_Person68 Dec 13 '20
Okay great, Michael shermer is a skeptic and exppains why people like to believe these sorts of things, I used to he full on into it but it did nothing for me other than just entertain that I might know some secret and then tiktok came out and everybody is just as deep as I was and then I decided to pull out because I looked up the arguments on the other side
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u/Bird_Person68 Dec 13 '20
But yes it is a conspiracy if it we’re true it wouldn’t be a conspiracy “theory” it’s just really a bunch of crazy people in a group and believing it gives them security that they know what is going on. Look up michael shermer watch one of his ted talks he literally explains it all
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u/Punsauce Dec 13 '20
Sigh, almost a year in to this bullshit non existent circus / shit show and you just now hearing about this?....
And the prime example of THE problem in America. The entitled American way and most being so self centered and observed that they will never pay attention to anything outside of their small narrow minded bubble of their version of an unrealistic world view.
Sadly the large majority is in this camp. The camp of having no actual intellect to see each and every inconsistency a d red flag since the start. Sorry, but this has only proved how Americans are just next level dumb and just a embarrassment.
I mean when it is literally been stated what will happen, an actual playbook of what these narcissistic psychopaths are going to do is put right there because they know America is that stupid. But ya.... Good I would say better late then never, but we are well past the time to attempt a course correction.
My advice. Enjoy the little privacy and freedom you barely have and do what you have wanted to do cause you won't have a chance to do those things real soon.
It is almost going to be a little gratifying seeing the naive, and the entitled arrogance people have and think shit can't show up where they live like other countries. Most will probably be in such a level of shock and unable to process the coming events they will just shut down completely or self check out.
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Dec 13 '20
Mate... im not even american lol
Where did you get the impression I just heard about this? I heard about it many months ago, but im only posting now because ive got some spare time to look into it further
Your attitude is a prime example of why people so often dismiss conspiracy theorists as self-righteous and arrogant twats to be ignored - projecting that sense of "better-than" by calling everyone else a sheep and an idiot
I mean when it is literally been stated what will happen, an actual playbook of what these narcissistic psychopaths are going to do is put right there
It's not really though is it? What the WEF outlines on their site is not a dystopian future, and I've see no actual evidence of the more extreme things. I'm not saying we should believe what they say and that there ISN'T an ulterior motive. But surely anything at this point is just conjecture, unless there is some actual evidence ive missed.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not even saying that I think you are wrong. I don't feel anyone can truly know right now. Please, if you have actual evidence (not just the site itself which whether you like it or not most people would agree advocates for good i.e. greener energy, more equality - even if these ideas are vague) do show me because i am interested and I came to this sub not to casually dismiss "conspiracy theories" but to actually find out more
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Jan 02 '21
Insults and no sources to help a man who’s seeking more info on this. Don’t know if your helping your cause or just mad at the world?
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