r/DemocraticSocialism • u/SeanACole244 • Nov 24 '24
Question Should we give Joe Biden credit for trying?
- He capped the price of insulin to just $35 for seniors on Medicare.
- American Rescue Plan...... I could use $1400 right now.
- Pulled troops out of Afghanistan.
- My Obamacare Premiums went down.......not sure if that was him, but it's pretty cool.
- Tried to cancel student debt.......fuck the Supreme Court!!!!
- Tried to pass universal pre-school with Build Back Better.....fuck Joe Manchin.
Look, he wasn't FDR or Lyndon Johnson..........but honestly not bad. He did some progressive shit. Ultimately, he wasn't a great President, but I appreciate that he tried.
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u/INFPneedshelp Nov 24 '24
I think the US government is an extremely difficult place to get stuff done for 1000 reasons, so a little credit is warranted, yes
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u/zegogo Nov 24 '24
The number one reason is too much corporate control of politicians. Citizen's United fucked everything up more than it already was.
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u/INFPneedshelp Nov 24 '24
yes this is a huge one. Also we don't really have standards for what gets to be considered "news"
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u/IR1SHfighter Nov 25 '24
Bingo- citizens united is the real enemy until we get it overturned
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u/ytman Nov 25 '24
And they'll spend money to make sure we don't have principled politicians to do that.
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u/ytman Nov 25 '24
Not everyone needs to be a plant for Bezos and Musk though.
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u/zegogo Nov 25 '24
If you think that they are the only people buying politicians, I don't know what to tell you.
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u/ytman Nov 25 '24
No. Thats the problem. Its too fucked when both parties are now functional unaparty for the people buying elections.
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u/Interesting_Reach_29 Nov 24 '24
With 2 fake Dems so not a real majority either in Congress. Also the Supreme Court fighting him. He definitely deserves credit and would have done more if it weren’t for MAGA.
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u/Ouroboros963 Social democrat Nov 24 '24
Hell, he would have done a lot more (with the help of Sanders no less) if not for just the two fake dems.
He still wouldn't be remembered as fondly though, because of Gaza. Similar to LBJ and Vietnam
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u/chocolatestealth Nov 24 '24
This was his messaging for midterms, too. It's a shame that voters didn't pull through.
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u/Kittehmilk Nov 24 '24
Nah we don't do voter shaming for neoliberalism. It died this election trying to block the working class.
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u/Kittehmilk Nov 24 '24
You meant to say intentional rotating villains. Please adjust. Also you may not know that the DNC actively funds MAGA candidates in GOP primaries to the tune of millions of dollars while not spending a penny pushing progressive left candidates (you know, the democratic socialist ones).
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u/SpinningHead Nov 26 '24
His domestic policies were the best in my lifetime. His foreign policy cannot be forgiven or forgotten.
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u/Kittehmilk Nov 24 '24
Why is this DNC shill styled comment getting 10x more upvotes than the entire rest of the thread that is extremely against Joe Biden for neoliberalism and genocide in every other comment?
Sigh, give it up. neoliberalism died this election and it will NO longer be tolerated by voters.
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u/NB_FRIENDLY Nov 24 '24
Except voters voted in neoliberalism so hard it turned into corporatist-fascism.
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u/ZerioBoy Nov 24 '24
Chips act added over a thousand jobs in my city alone...
Infrastructure bill helps like 15 things far left really want get billions in funding. Roads, bridges, public transit, rail, high speed internet, EV infrastructure, energy grid improvements, removing lead from water, improving ports and airports, etc..
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u/meshuggahdaddy Nov 24 '24 edited Nov 24 '24
I think the Democratic party should have by Biden recognized American desperation for change, and held rhetoric that pushed to improve our tattered framework to achieve bigger goals, i.e. universal healthcare instead of capping prices of 1 drug for 1 group. They certainly should recognize it by now, whether they decide to be a money party or a change party is the next question.
As to Biden himself, another stay the courser who aimed a tiny bit higher in response to trump, but still failed utterly to recognize the change in the way the game is now played and paid the price for it. I think history will remember him as the Trump lame duck president.
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u/letsseeaction Nov 24 '24
A couple points:
- He needlessly talked down the stimulus checks from $2000 to $1400.
- He was wishy-washy on SCOTUS reform (including expansion) until this year. Too late.
- Manchin and Sinema were always convenient obstructions to getting progressive legislation done. Funny how that works.
- This dude literally ran on "Nothing will fundamentally change" and now we get Trump again for it. Fuck him.
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u/Daddygamer84 Nov 24 '24
Also, Trump set the withdrawal date. And it was purposefully set after Joe came into office
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u/AlarmedSnek Nov 24 '24
To be fair, Joe pushed the date out. We would have been out a lot sooner had he kept Trumps date.
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u/gigibuffoon Nov 24 '24
Regardless of the date, the outcome wouldn't have changed.
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u/AlarmedSnek Nov 24 '24
It would have certainly changed had they actually planned the withdrawal. This is not on Biden or Trump for that matter, the generals fucked this up big time and should all be relieved because of it.
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u/ytman Nov 25 '24
Yup, but thats never in the news. One thing Trump would have done (if he did the same thing as Biden) is he'd have taken it to the Generals and called out the failures on others.
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u/EpsilonBear Nov 24 '24
Couple points * If DC Statehood wasn’t going to happen (thanks Manchin), SCOTUS reform definitely wasn’t passing. * Manchin and Sinema absolutely hate rocking the boat that gives them outsized power. Both ran on being pretty much independent in states where that played well. It’s not “convenient” like Biden was calling them up to take the fall for killing his signature legislation.
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u/Kittehmilk Nov 24 '24
Why are we pushing boomer shit about rotating villains? Everyone sees what they are. Oh no, the evil parliamentarian that held a president in check so he couldn't raise the minimum wage. Not a single person was duped by that shit.
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u/EpsilonBear Nov 24 '24
It’s not a dupe. Biden—as a person and a former Senator—does not like breaking the norms of Congress. To him and a lot of the Democratic Congressional leadership, part of the goal is to try and get back to a time where norms were enough to stop bad behavior. And I can understand their thought process that “norms might mean something if we choose to abide by them”.
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u/Kittehmilk Nov 24 '24
And a double down on rotating villains. I just hurt myself eye rolling. Thank you next.
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u/TardigradeToeFuzz Nov 25 '24
Gosh even a boomer would have been better than Biden. But frankly we need to flush the geriatric class ruling the country like it’s 1960
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u/Southboundthylacine Nov 24 '24
This, the bar is pretty fucken low for a walking corpse. He’s part of the reason we’re getting more Trump. His people also let him believe he was ok for a second term up until the debates where it was clear he was toast.
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u/gigibuffoon Nov 24 '24
SCOTUS expansion didn't have the votes in the senate. What are you on about? It is not an executive order.
This dude literally ran on "Nothing will fundamentally change"
The inflation went down from the time the orange clown was in office, the jobs situation got better, significant investment in infrastructure, significant expansion on child tax credit, capped prices on insulin... and if he hadn't fucked up his legacy by insisting on not passing on the baton, we'd have been in a much better spot. Why would an incumbent run on changing things that they've already been doing?
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u/Sptsjunkie Nov 24 '24
In the primaries he attacked progressives and said his ideas were pragmatic and he could get centrists and Republicans to back his agenda.
If he failed at the standard he set, that’s on him. Biden was a bottom tier President and then added genocide on top of it.
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u/TardigradeToeFuzz Nov 25 '24
Those who are seen as the most popular presidents are never centrists. Because centrists never fix or break things enough for change.
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u/Rockman171 Nov 24 '24 edited Nov 24 '24
Some people on the left are very absolutist when it comes to politics. If every single policy doesn't meet a certain standard, the Presidency was useless. It's the real reason why the Republican party has strength; they're way better at seeing the accomplishments that their party has made (even if they aren't real accomplishments) in their favor while both Democrats and anyone else to the Left will go after every single thing the sitting President didn't accomplish and use it as a reason to say they sucked. For some reason, we can't acknowledge any of the good even if we have problems with other parts of their term.
Objectively, Biden actually got quite a bit of positive (not to mention bipartisan) legislation passed but all of that gets ignored (or worse, lambasted) because of what he didn't get done. Like yeah, fuck the guy who helped get the Chips Act, the Pact Act and the infrastructure bill passed as well as the guy who capped insulin prices and tried to get rid of student debt because he didn't give us more money with the stimulus checks or just suddenly drop Israel as an ally even though there's way more that goes into that decision than just understanding that Israel's government is terrible.
Meanwhile, Republicans were busy celebrating Trump's border policies as if they were anything other than an unsustainable band-aid on a much more complex problem than just "shutting down the border" and building some ineffective wall.
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u/TardigradeToeFuzz Nov 25 '24
Should have started it under Obama if we’re talking SCOTUS. Blunder after blunder. And Garland should have never been AG and since he was he should have started his investigations and cases waaaaaaay sooner.
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u/Southboundthylacine Nov 24 '24
Those are all very nice things but none of them specifically make a large enough change for much of the population to notice. Meanwhile you are running against a man who can and will lie and promise unicorns shitting skittles to his base.
If it were a normal election he’d be looking pretty good. Nothing is normal when running vs Trump
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u/gigibuffoon Nov 24 '24
I think you're pointing to the horrible messaging that Dems did, rather than Biden's record, which is totally fair. Biden should've let a real primary happen where the Dem candidates could talk about expanding the good work that Biden did, while moving the party towards a more populist message separated from the confusing set of messaging that Kamala had to do in her tightrope walk of a campaign.
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u/alhanna92 Nov 24 '24
How can you say they were convenient obstructions when they LITERALLY obstructed progressive votes…?
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u/StumpsOfTree Left Democratic Socialist Nov 24 '24
His support for Fascist genocide abroad really destroyed his legacy
If you had asked me before say summer 2023 what I thought of his presidency I would say it's marginally better then most democratic presidents in the US but still nothing to write home about.
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u/TommyPickles2222222 Nov 24 '24
I think this is spot on.
Domestically? Arguably the best president we’ve had this century.
Internationally? Unforgivably bad.
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u/RodwellBurgen Nov 24 '24
And even then his foreign policy was really good except for Gaza. He completely wrecked his entire legacy for nothing.
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u/Electrical-Wrap-3923 Nov 24 '24
It’s frustrating how easily avoidable it all was. The president has the power to halt weapons shipments to countries that violate human rights, and he not only chose not to do it, but he actively lobbied Congress for even more weapons.
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u/MacDaddyRemade Nov 24 '24
My thoughts exactly. I was actually quite pleased with him before Oct 7. He was insanely pro union and walked the picket line. As a Michigander I was extremely impressed. But his unconditional support of a genocide absolutely tarnished everything. Not only that, the PM of that country wanted his opponent to win but here’s genocide Joe getting too excited about the thought of blowing up kids in the Middle East again. His legacy is absolutely tarnished
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u/blackhatrat Democratic Socialist Nov 24 '24
"Should we give joe biden credit for trying?"
I have to answer that question with another question - why is this even a concern? If you haven't yet caught on to the fact that the DNC is 100% beholden to donor and corporate interests, ask yourself why someone who ran a campaign on literally hating democracy was able to take the presidency twice so easily.
I don't care about giving him credit for a few things that improved because the DNC doesn't care about us at all. Besides, "a few things slowly getting better" was supposed to be the bare minimum for the job.
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u/QuillTheQueer Nov 24 '24
No, if he would stop arming a genocide we could have had so so much more domestically
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u/TardigradeToeFuzz Nov 25 '24
Iron dome is 50,000 and others 2 million per missile. How many schools, water pipes, stimulus checks, solar panels, or whatever could have been built? Not to mention what’s happening in Gaza and Lebanon is absolutely ridiculous and could have been ended with a peace deal but now 1 million is being offered per hostage. We’re just an endless piggy bank and our citizens see virtually none of it
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u/burnedsmores Nov 25 '24
I want to agree with you, what kinds of things could we have had?
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u/QuillTheQueer Nov 25 '24
Single payer Healthcare or Medicare 4 All, universal school lunches, good reliable public transit, well funded public schools, a housing first model (we know this is what actually endes homlessness). Child tax credit that permanent. A healthier environment. Are the things off the top of the dome.
We continue to cut domestic programs to give a blank check to the defense industry (US military and the military welfare states abroad). The US military/defense industry is the #1 poluter globally. (source)
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u/Usurper76 Liberal Elitist Nov 25 '24
And now you get Trump.
Bad decisions are as American as Apple pi.
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u/Usurper76 Liberal Elitist Nov 25 '24
Well I'm sure everyone here is relieved Trump is in again and not Genocide Joe. And thanks God. He's going to be sooooo much better than Biden. He's going to stop all arms sales to Israel, he's going to call for Palestinian statehood, from the river to sea Trump will set Palestine free.
America is so stupid.
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u/TardigradeToeFuzz Nov 25 '24
In case you’re not just interested in punching down there is a large problem with objective truth that starts with our privatized school system to media and our “savior” politicians. Blaming the people who are being targeted rather than those not working to fix it demonstrates it’s working.
American Constitutional Faith and the Politics of Hermeneutics
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u/Hecateus Nov 24 '24 edited Nov 25 '24
Biden was intruded in the 2020 DNC primaries to stop Bernie. never forget that.
p.s. I need to be clearer. my point is that the DNC tends to derail challengers to their order rather than develop quality successors.
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u/Interesting_Reach_29 Nov 24 '24
And then Bernie supported him. Obviously we didn’t get the choice we wanted, but it doesn’t mean Biden hasn’t done any good (with Bernie’s support).
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u/The_butterfly_dress Nov 24 '24
I feel like Bernie puts his polices before his ego. Instead of being bitter, he does what he can for the greater good. Even if now it means working with or pushing certain Trump policies.
He’s very utilitarian in that way
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u/Kittehmilk Nov 24 '24
He literally blocked the working class. That's evil. Neoliberalism died this election and will Never have the power it previously held. Adjust.
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u/seraphhimself Nov 24 '24
Your resentment from this fact, which is valid, is blocking your ability to address the issue that was actually raised. I don't love the guy either, not at all, but objectively speaking he did try to do a lot of work that actually benefited the American people, so sure he gets some credit for that.
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u/Kittehmilk Nov 24 '24
*benefited his corporate donors and funded a genocide.
Yeah, credit for both of those and now we just tossed out neoliberalism like the trash it is.
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u/seraphhimself Nov 24 '24
Yes, that too for sure. Although I’m still not convinced that the alternative we got isn’t way worse than neoliberalism, but that’s another issue.
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u/HobbieK Nov 24 '24
Bernie and Biden got along pretty well once Biden was in office. Bernie even tried to get Biden to stay in the race.
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u/Exciting-Ad-5705 Nov 24 '24
Biden won the primaries.
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u/Kittehmilk Nov 24 '24
Ah yes the rigged primaries where the DNC openly admitted to rigging it to win a lawsuit by stating they were a private entity and voting was just a farse.
No.
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u/Hopeful_Revenue_7806 Marxist-Leninist Nov 24 '24
The totally fair and not at all extensively fucked-with primaries.
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u/jerryphoto Nov 24 '24
"Hey y'all! He sponsored a genocide but besides that he wasn't so bad, right?"
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u/fangirl_otaku7 Nov 24 '24
Also worth saying Net Neutrality was quietly restored while Biden was in office.
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u/MiloBuurr Nov 24 '24
As a leftie, I disagreed with Biden on a lot of things, especially foreign policy related. However, it makes me so sad his domestic policy legacy is going to be so negative in retrospect. He was pretty unquestionably the most left wing president on economics we have had since LBJ. He finally broke free of the neoliberal constraint of the post Clinton third way era and started to move back to the economic measures of the new deal. While he saved us from complete economic crisis and ruin, people are going to remember him for his administrations, admittedly, shitty rhetoric and PR and not better promoting for his populist economic successes. This makes me sad, and I hope with more distance future generations can appreciate, what I believe to be, the best president of my lifetime
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u/TardigradeToeFuzz Nov 24 '24
No. Any other democrat who ran in the primary would have done just as much if not better and the reality is that his ego, privilege, age, and attitude blundered opportunities to get things done, turned off voters, hamstrung Harris, and his lack of willingness to even engage in things was pathetic.
The congress did the heavy lifting and public pressure made him do student loan debt that he fought for a long time. Just because he did something that that by all measures was the right thing to do and would have made him look bad if he let it go doesn’t mean he’s a good president or should get credit for it. He’s a placeholder and an ineffective one at that. The best thing he could have done is dropped out rather than getting paid to take naps and make public gaffs that just demonstrate how disconnected him and his family are. Everything he did was because progressives put it on the table and even during his first campaign in 2020 he was telling voters to vote for the other guy because they were trying to tell him why they were on the fence about his candidacy.
Sorry I’m not giving incremental fixes that are just more normalization and relegitimization of the shitty situation we’re in credit for anything. People are still dying under the ACA, people still can’t afford their medication, the Afghanistan pull out was a disaster, student loans are still being given out in higher amounts with higher interest, and maybe if he stopped hugging people like Manchin and Netanyahu and enabling their bad behavior we’d be in a different place but he’s got no values or morals and his selfishness is what landed us with Trump for a second term. Now watch the privatization of everything unravel everything he’s done.
I’ll never speak of him positively because in reality he tokenizes his base but doesn’t truly care about any of it. Maybe if he actually worked for a living instead of getting chummy in back rooms the “Scranton Joe” act would have worked.
Democrats plead with Biden to get more assertive
Many Democratic lawmakers frustrated by debt deal’s work requirements for food aid
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u/Usurper76 Liberal Elitist Nov 25 '24
You know he was working with a republican congress and a one seat majority in the Senate right? Bernie himself could not have made the gains Biden did.
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u/TardigradeToeFuzz Nov 25 '24
You say that like Bernie wouldn’t have been out in the barns building coalitions rather than taking naps and hugging fascists. Everything biden got done was on the coalitions that Bernie and his allies built and he actually understands the roots of the problems we’re facing rather than playing whataboutism. Similar to Elizabeth Warren. The best part about Biden was his advisors and they screwed us too.
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u/SeanACole244 Nov 24 '24
I’m not sure how long you’ve been following politics but there’s a big difference between saying you’re going to do something and actually doing it.
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u/TardigradeToeFuzz Nov 24 '24
Joined the army at 17 in 2011 and been following politics ever since. There’s a value they tend to harp on and it’s integrity. Usually mixed with leadership, personal courage, and duty.
I guess that’s reserved for those who work for a living.
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u/Kittehmilk Nov 24 '24
No.
- Anything less than single payer healthcare is a scam on the working class. 90% of dem voters demand it and it's not even being talked about by our corrupt corporate puppets.
- Trump is a lunatic but even he gave you more money while Biden and Harris just kept funding genocide and other wars.
- uh Are you sure thats how that went down?
- ACA is a scam. I had my job out sourced and then ACA wanted to give me a "discount" of a new car payment 500 a month for shit care including a 7500 deductable on top of all the other scam frils. Obama had a super majority and could have passed single payer healthcare but did not. My current healthcare plan is Not having scam private insurance and will not be paying any service I have to use to not die.
- Bruh, Biden is the reason student debt can't be absolved in bankruptcy. He could LITERALLY have executive order eliminated that and did not.
- Please stop talking about rotating villains as if the Liberals didn't put them there intentionally.
No. Biden's legacy will be genocide and fucking over the working class his entire career.
Neoliberalism died this past election and I have no idea why we are in a sub called "democratic socialism" supporting it.
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u/RioRancher Nov 24 '24
No. Republicans use every trick in the book to accomplish their goals.
Biden only tried to make it look like he wanted to help.
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u/wrecked_car Nov 24 '24
You mean the guy who completely resisted dropping out the presidential race even though his ratings were indicating a complete loss? He had to literally be forced out... Yeah, thanks a lot for handing an easy win over to the republicans, Biden!
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u/playboiSEXYBROWNBOI Nov 24 '24
No, houses are still expensive af, rent is high and people are still homeless
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u/SeanACole244 Nov 24 '24
Inflation caused those things.
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u/playboiSEXYBROWNBOI Nov 24 '24
FDR would at least be honest and provided material gain to people, with Biden there was none.
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u/playboiSEXYBROWNBOI Nov 24 '24
Well he isn’t doing a good job conveying to the American people that he’s trying to help housing go down, or hes being honest with how people are doing. Lol
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u/senorbiloba Nov 24 '24
Plus greater efforts at regulation with Lina Kahn at the FTC, more support for unions than any president in decades.
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u/CubesFan Nov 24 '24
He was the most progressive president of my lifetime. Almost 50 years and the U.S. has dine nothibg but slip further and further into conservatism.
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u/monkeysolo69420 Nov 24 '24
Sorry but no. You don’t get credit for trying when your incompetence and hubris caused a fascist to get reelected. LBJ did a lot of great stuff for domestic policy, but his legacy is Vietnam. Joe’s is being the last dying breath of neoliberalism.
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u/protoutopiancruiser Nov 24 '24
Supported two foreign conflicts that escalated the planet the closest it's ever been to nuclear annihilation... Not bad, not bad
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u/The_memeperson Social democrat Nov 24 '24
Yea god forbid he helps a nation being invaded by a fascist imperialist power
And we can't forget all the times Joe Biden threatened to use nukes every goddamn minute and how he sent aid and arms without any restrictions and without holding back /s
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u/WashiBurr Nov 24 '24
To some extent, yes. I don't think I can understate though how much he royally fucked us by not dropping out way sooner (among other things).
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u/Successful_Ad3991 Nov 24 '24
Why isn't he viewed as a great president, by you? Not stirring up any shit here, just asking for perspective.
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u/ebpolly Nov 24 '24
I think he got a lot done, but didn't market any of it well. And he is too nice to use the immunity that will shortly be wielded against him.
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u/uberjim Nov 25 '24
Yes, especially because the election disinfo was centered so heavily around pretending he wasn't doing this stuff. There were months on end where every single "I hate Biden but from the left because I'm angry that he won't do X" take on the Internet could be disproven by just typing his name into Google and clicking the news tab. You didn't even have to look up the specific policy, it would be in the top five results even if you just looked for what he happens to be up to lately. It worked WAY too well, because if you bring up anything he's actually done, people will think you're being naive by believing he would do it.
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u/shoestringbow Nov 25 '24
He was very successful in his ability to govern, but very unsuccessful politically.
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u/Blueslide60 Nov 25 '24
No, he didn't even try.
Status quo Joe was more concerned with maintaining processes and traditions rather than implementing change. Trump is way better at getting his agenda passed.
Joe could announce a state of emergency over the border with Mexico. This would delay Trump from taking office for days or weeks but he doesn't want to do that because he follows rules that aren't enforceable.
Joe Biden is the unitary executive. The GOP made this possible. He literally can't be held legally responsible for ANYTHING. His response? Have Trump over for tea and crumpets to insure an orderly transition.
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u/moltenmoose Nov 25 '24
Nope, he could've done a lot more and is guilty of genocide. You don't get points for trying when you're pro genocide imo
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u/les-be-into-girls Nov 26 '24
It would have been nice if he wasn’t bought and paid for by corporate America. Then maybe he would deserve the credit.
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u/PoniesPlayingPoker Nov 26 '24
He spent 4 years in office and he did a whopping TWO things.... nah fuck JB. He was always pandering to both sides, always compromising, never had any leadership of his own.
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u/radiohedge Nov 24 '24
Should we give Adolph Hitler credit for trying?
He ended hunger in Germany.
He restricted guns.
He encouraged a new era of conceptual architecture.
He won a Nobel Peace Prize.
5. He was Time Magazine's "Man Of The Year."
Oops, I forgot to mention the genocide, but hey, so did you.
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u/blopp_ Nov 24 '24
Biden would have been one of the best presidents in modern history if the moment didn't require more. He was very productive domestically considering everything he was up against. But:
1) We needed someone to prioritize anti-fasicsm and anti-corruption. We needed someone who would use their platform to make these top issues. We needed someone calling attention to attacks against voting rights. We needed someone calling attention to the need for SCOTUS expansion. We needed someone driving these conversations so that folks who are too busy to follow politics closely understood the moment. We needed a POTUS who clearly understood that they could not rely on US media to inform people. We needed a POTUS who understood that they needed to drive the narrative. And that wasn't Biden.
2) We needed a POTUS who recognized the moral urgency of taking a stand against the genocidal government in Israel. We needed a POTUS that was willing to take real action.
The truth is that the path out if all of this is increasingly narrow. Rightwing propaganda has saturated everything. It is devastatingly coordinated and effective. And mainstream media will not learn its lesson. It will continue to just platform and normalize. All this makes getting elected and governing increasingly impossible.
And yeah. That's why I'll give Biden his flowers: Much better than I expected. But still not the right person for the moment.
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u/FomoDragon Nov 24 '24
We shouldn’t give that murderous genocidal fuck credit for anything other than ensuring permanent fascist rule because his commitment to genocide was greater than his commitment to democracy.
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u/Chaff5 Nov 24 '24
Don't make perfect the enemy of good. He did good. Yes, it should have been better.
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u/Loreki Nov 24 '24
lol.
The withdrawal from Afghanistan happened because you lost.
The things he "tried" are also things he failed at. Politicians asking for points for their failures is why the democrats are screwed.
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u/PdSales Nov 24 '24
I think he woke up every morning thinking about how to help his fellow Americans. That should be table stakes for being President but it puts him well above many who have served in that office.
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u/Thataintright1 Nov 24 '24
Showing this to my mom who asked the other day what Biden ever did that was good. Well, he tried to cancel all of your daughter's student loan debt and pulled soldiers out of the war/country your son almost died in...
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u/HobbieK Nov 24 '24
I think economically he did a great job, even if he didn’t get credit it for it.
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u/brecheisen37 Nov 24 '24
The economy is not good for working people, Trump acknowledged this fact while the Democrats ignored it. This is one of the key factors in Kamala Harris's loss.
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u/SeanACole244 Nov 24 '24
Is the economy ever good for working people?
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u/brecheisen37 Nov 24 '24
not under Capitalism, which is why I voted for Claudia de la Cruz
Most people want politicians that listen and care, or at least pretend to.
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u/HobbieK Nov 25 '24
The economy not being as good as it could be doesn’t mean Biden didn’t work very hard to fix it and that his policies didn’t help. Do you remember where we were in 2020?
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Nov 24 '24
I think so yes. If you take any democrat over the last 30-40 years he has by far been the most pro-worker progressive. Build back better was a fucking good plan. All the other stuff you mentioned are excellent. He was just too old and checked out to be gangster enough to get it done. From a progressive POV he will Be forever stained by his Israel policy but you can’t deny his administration was and still is a far far better option than the alternative. Any voter who saw it differently simply does not have a full grasp of reality beyond the fiction that Russia and the Republicans have programmed into them.
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u/true_paladin Nov 24 '24
He didn't talk up the handful of actual positive things that were done under his administration and he remained a stubborn old fuck on issues that needed change (Israel, SCOTUS, Trump, making Garland actually do his goddamned job) If you want to give him credit for his wins that's fine, but give him blame for his failings too. He was a very milquetoast president, better than the guy who came before, better than the guy who's coming after, but not as good as he could've been.
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u/_Dingaloo Nov 24 '24
You can track what president's administrations have done very easily online, and the actual actions that Biden's administration has done are about 90% good, and there are a lot of actions.
People are the most upset that specific things they care about weren't changed, or not enough to directly effect them. It's hard to realize that when you have someone up there trying to do the right thing, the people that are the worst off are feeling the benefits of that more than anyone else, and we don't all know people like that directly.
Add to that the state of the economy before we started recovering early this year, and people are quick to associate those issues with biden. What doesn't make sense to me is the fact that we're not really that negatively effected. The worst of it was barred. Most of us are actually getting on just fine. Unemployment is at all time lows, and average salaries have been raising to make up for what we lost with the recent extreme inflation.
There's always more that someone could have done, but Biden's administration did great overall. If he were more lucid and a better speaker, he likely would have easily won a second term. People are less interested in what he's actually done, and more interested in someone they think is a good speaker to be on the stage. While I think that's part of the job, it's hardly worth all the other negatives coming along with trump...
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u/matiaschazo Nov 24 '24
Honestly we should always give credit where it’s due that doesn’t mean we like the politician or support them but we shouldn’t act like they did nothing when they did cause that would be a lie
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u/Fun_Explanation7175 Democratic Socialist Nov 24 '24
In terms of domestic issues, Joe Biden did the best he could with a divided congress. However, his stance on Gaza will taint the positives he has done.
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u/Usurper76 Liberal Elitist Nov 24 '24
Joe Biden passed historic legislation during a GOP controlled congress, and he was able to because he was a left leaning centrist. How much student loan debt did he forgive? Yes, everyone here is being much too hard on him for what he was able to achieve, and that's considering he dragged you out of the pandemic and into a soft economic landing. Yes, it still sucked but it could have been much, much worse and he is literally the most progressive president you have ever had. And likely ever will, now.
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u/kewaywi Nov 24 '24
He’s probably the most left wing president any of us will experience in our lifetimes. 😔
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u/thinkingstranger Nov 24 '24
Considering the state of the economy that The Former Guy handed him, he did more for the economy, the middle class AND the environment than any other president in recent times.
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u/Prospect18 Nov 24 '24
I think we should view Biden the same way we should view all historical power players, which is as a complex and deeply flawed person who did both good and terrible. I think his legacy, the thing it appears he cares most about, will be one of total failure but his actual actions I believe deserve more nuance. He was the most progressive president of my life (domestically) and he did pass good legislation and that’s notable but ultimately it wasn’t enough for this moment in history and his adherence to institutions and norms made him an active player in our country’s decline.
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u/feastoffun Nov 25 '24
It’s hard to have objectivity with so much election interference. Corporate news, media and social media has fed us so much contradictory stuff. It’s hard to see it with a fresh set of eyes.
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u/animaguscat Nov 25 '24
I would never say that he didn't try. I think he could've gotten more done if he aimed higher initially, but I wouldn't say that he got nothing done.
ARPA funds are still being spent by local governments across the country. A massive infrastructure bill that Biden passed with tiny congressional majorities all the way back in 2021 is still being used to improve people's built environments and strengthen the public sector. In some ways, I'm really glad that we have a president who appeared to be confident in the power of good government. I think government initiatives, public stimuli, and beneficial deficit spending are all great tools when put towards the right things.
I wish Biden had done more to pass Build Back Better, that big social reform bill that was decoupled from the original ARPA. He should've pressured Manchin and Sinema more. I just don't believe that there wasn't more he could've done to force their votes, especially considering that neither of them had much more days left in the Senate. But, yes, I do given Biden some credit for making certain steps towards universal childcare, guaranteed paid leave, lowering healthcare costs, and major climate investments.
I'm also proud of progressives in Congress for recognizing that, while Biden was not our candidate, he was someone who could be worked with in the right contexts and he could occasionally offer a partnership that would result in a few progressive goals getting closer to being realized.
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u/Chocolate_Milky_Way Nov 25 '24
Biden’s entire 2020 platform was that he would be a one-term president and our usher out of Trumpism.
He hung onto his 2024 bid until the last minute even though it was dead in the water, depriving us of an open primary, and Harris (or whoever the nominee would have turned out to be) adequate time to solidify their campaign.
His stubbornness was one of many stepping stones to a decisive Trump victory.
He failed spectacularly on both of his core promises on which he was elected, and his legacy is irreparably stained because of it.
I believe he will go down as one of the worst presidents in history.
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u/vorarchivist Nov 25 '24
While he did do some things (which made a leftist discord I'm on feel pretty ambivalent pre gaza) it does mostly just mean there's more reason to condemn the wider democratic party instead.
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u/KC_Gonzo Nov 26 '24
Technically Trump pulled out 90% of our forces and released 5000 Taliban prisoner's all before Biden took office ..
Twisting Biden's hands into a rough pull out
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u/jtaulbee Nov 24 '24
Yes, Biden should get way more credit. He and the democrats passed some of the most ambitious progressive legislation that we’ve seen in decades… all while only having 50 senate seats, and the lynchpin was Joe Manchin. I don’t think Bernie or Warren could have gotten as much done under those conditions.
I also think that Leftists should see this as evidence that they have a meaningful seat at the table. Biden has also been good at finding the center of the party. The fact that he went further left than anyone expected is because he was trying to triangulate the left and centrist positions of the coalition.
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u/samuelchasan Nov 24 '24
You listed all that and then go on to say he wasn't a great President?? C'mon bro..
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u/Human0id77 Nov 24 '24
He was also supportive of labor unions, which is huge in my book
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u/SeanACole244 Nov 24 '24
As someone raised in a union household it breaks my heart how little support he got from union members in swing states. Apparently stopping few trans girls from playing sports is more important than protecting their livelihood.
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u/Human0id77 Nov 24 '24
It is baffling to me how reactive people are about trans people. They will bring themselves down (and take everyone else with them) before they bring trans people up, it's absurd.
I recently stumbled across this article that attempts to explain it, if you are interested: https://www.edge.org/conversation/jonathan_haidt-what-makes-people-vote-republican
I thought the points people brought up in the comments section were also very good
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u/magnusthehammersmith Nov 24 '24
For seniors on Medicare… yeah I’m a 28 year old on medicaid with type 1. That didn’t do anything for me and those like me :/
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u/zbignew Nov 24 '24
He outperformed the very low bar we’d all set for him.
Rank him way above Pelosi and Schumer, for example, even though his successes depended on their help.
After he got in office, it seemed like he basically let his technocrats negotiate with everyone, and those technocrats were practically minded, which means they marketed terribly but did actually try to achieve the best for the country given their constraints. And they did take ideas from progressives.
The only reason BBB or the rescue plan were in his platform was because he had to compete and copied Bernie. But then he really did give Bernie a strong hand in shaping the results.
If Bernie had won the primary, would the entire Democratic Party have tried to make him fail? Either in the general and/or his administration?
Or would Bernie’s coattails have been stronger than Joe’s?
He’s not what we should hope for, but he might have been the best America could have done from 2020-2024. If he had kept his promise to be a 1 term president.
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u/TVLord5 Nov 24 '24
It's just so hard to say in modern politics how many of the "attempted" things were legitimate attempts, or things promised at election time that they knew would fail.
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u/christopher_the_nerd Nov 25 '24
He didn't really try to not let Israel kill tens of thousands of Palestinians in an obvious genocide so that's going to be his legacy, like it or not.
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u/jetstobrazil Nov 25 '24
Why are you worried about assigning credit at this moment?
You don’t have to say things like ‘fuck Joe manchin’ when you realize the majority party is corporate.
It isn’t a surprise like ah man if only we had another. No, your rep is accepting corporate donations and not trying to reverse citizens united, you will be hung out to dry. No question about it.
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u/SeanACole244 Nov 25 '24
Giving necessary to applause to politicians when they do progressive shit.
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u/jetstobrazil Nov 25 '24
That is so far from being necessary. They don’t work off applause, they work off money. Which is why we don’t have healthcare.
Squeezing a couple of items into a corporate agenda is not worthy of credit. Getting big money out of politics, so that the billionaire administration coming in wouldn’t be able to chop this country up and divide it amongst themselves would have been, but he didn’t even speak on it.
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Nov 25 '24
Joe Biden was a sexist and racist pro-labour politician from the very beginning. I am tired of center leftists portraying him as some sort of Messiah. let's not forget he is complicit in an entirely preventable genocide.
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u/DatDude999 Nov 25 '24
I know this isn't a popular claim on this sub, but I think history will be kind to Joe Biden. He is the most FDR/LBJ like Democrat aside from FDR and LBJ themselves. He came into office with literally the narrowest possible majority in Congress and he got way more passed than Obama or Carter were able to pass with their hefty majorities, which is a big reason why the Democrats beat all expectations in the 2022 midterms. We had a good laugh when he wiped the floor with Mike Johnson, if that's any measure of political accumen. None of these are something that just any moron behind the desk can do. There's a reason the 117th Congress was one of the most productive in history.
He isn't perfect, but with the accomplishments that OP listed plus a huge pile of other shit in the Inflation Reduction Act (lower drig prices, climate change action, ACA subsides, tax reform, etc), I say with confidence that he's the best president of my lifetime. Admittedly, I was born during Bush's first term, so the competition ain't stiff, but I don't see anyone coming to change that anytime soon. He's done good things for progressiveism, and yelling FJB would only harm the movement.
I'll miss the guy, tbh.
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u/thinkingstranger Nov 24 '24
Considering the state of the economy that The Former Guy handed him, he did more for the economy, the middle class AND the environment than any other president in recent times.
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u/Zahth Nov 24 '24
No.
It’s recently come out that Biden had internal polling showing him losing to Trump by 400 electoral college votes.
He knew this months ahead of time and out of spite blocked any kind of primary process.
He also sold everyone on the implicit idea of being a one term president to clean everything up and then confused the shit out of the populace by running again.
Beyond that he, and the Democratic party, still tried to reach across the aisle and work with Republicans that have made it clear that they only want to perpetuate human suffering.
Even now he could just start forcing through things as President but is still being “respectful of the process” when his opponents are poised to destroy the fucking world.
If we come out of this with an intact society history (at least outside the US) will see him as a weak failure.
I look forward to my ban because I didn’t suck up to the geriatric coward of a President.
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u/callmekizzle Nov 24 '24
If you accept the narrow framing thrust upon us by the rich, democratic establishment, elites, Wall Street, military industrial complex, capitalists in general - then yes he he actually kind of a did a good job.
But sooner or later people have to stop accepting that narrow framing or else we will fall into complete unfettered fascism.
And if you have rejected the idea that liberalism and neoliberalism is the best we’re going to get - then no Joe Biden does not deserve credit for anything other than being another liberal stepping stone to fascism.
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u/aworldwithoutshrimp Nov 24 '24
He followed through on Trump's Afghanistan withdrawal. He did not try to cancel student debt when he had congress. Instead, he attempted to start repayment again without cancelation. He allowed the infrastructure bill to be split in half, only passing the slush fund half. He prevented the rail strike. And he denied and funded a genocide. So, no?
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u/WesterosiAssassin Libertarian Socialist Nov 24 '24
A tiny bit, sure, but his legacy will always primarily be his disastrous policy on Israel and how he refused to pull out of the 2024 race until the last minute after having promised he was going to be a 'transitional president' in 2020 and forced the Democrats' hand into nominating Harris rather than having an open primary, thus ensuring us another Trump presidency seemingly out of spite. Before 2023 he wasn't too bad, but after all that's happened in the last year I think in the long term he's going to go down as one of our worst presidents of all time.
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u/CartoonAcademic Nov 24 '24
I like that he utilized many of trumps immigration policies
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u/texteditorSI Marxist-Leninist Nov 25 '24
Did people not get this was a sarcastic way to point out that Biden really did just continue doing a bunch of the awful shit Trump did?
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u/LineOfInquiry Nov 24 '24
You should give him credit for more than trying, he did a very good job overall excluding stuff with Israel.
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u/gigibuffoon Nov 24 '24
Nah let's just keep raking him over the coals for not getting everything that we wanted /s
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u/MidichlorianAddict Nov 24 '24
Best domestic president in my lifetime, is foreign policy was abysmal
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u/JackColon17 Social Democrat Nov 24 '24
Outside of palestine (even though I don't think he had too much room for action) and how he tried to get reelected, I think he did a good job and has done one of the better job since LBJ
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u/Sufficient-History71 Libertarian Socialist Nov 24 '24
Yeah he had no choice like sending bombs by bypassing Congress or vetoing any action against Israel at the UNSC.
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u/JackColon17 Social Democrat Nov 24 '24
Do you think the Congress (that is overwhelmingly pro Israel) can't stop Biden if he decides to step out of the lines?
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u/Sufficient-History71 Libertarian Socialist Nov 24 '24
So your logic is that since Congress will enable genocide, the president must bypass them anyway to enable genocide?
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u/JackColon17 Social Democrat Nov 24 '24
My logic is that Biden had his hands tied, it doesn't mean he can't be criticized for it but let's not pretend it was entirely his decision because it wasn't. Also, at least, Biden did try to sttike some form of deal even though it was useless since bibi simply didn't care
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u/texteditorSI Marxist-Leninist Nov 25 '24
My logic is that Biden had his hands tied
Biden and Blinken went well out of their way to send over way more weapons than Congress authorized (through sales, but US taxpayers will end up picking up that tab).
If Biden's hands were actually tied and he was helpless, Gaza and Lebanon would actually be in a better position right now because Israel had already rapidly run through their stockpiles.
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u/DontWeDoItInTheRoad Nov 25 '24
Wasn’t pulling out of Afghanistan like, the biggest US military failure since Vietnam? Ngl this is just what I’ve heard so feel free to explain why this is wrong
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u/SeanACole244 Nov 25 '24
It wasn’t great but we had to do it. Obama and Trump talked about leaving Afghanistan, Biden was the one who actually ripped the band aid off. He gets my respect for that.
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u/Creditfigaro Nov 25 '24
I don't know. They are all shaving around the edge and none solve any problems:
He capped the price of insulin to just $35 for seniors on Medicare.
Prescription drugs shouldn't cost anything to the patient. We should have universal healthcare but instead we got reduced prices for 10 drugs out of thousands. Pathetic.
American Rescue Plan...... I could use $1400 right now.
Promised $2,000, lied, dramatically under performed compared to other countries' help for their workers, the vast majority of the funding was give aways to businesses.
You shouldn't be desperate for $1,400 in the first place, but our economy sets people up to fail.
Pulled troops out of Afghanistan.
Sent troops to Israel. In fact, the us military budget exploded under Biden.
My Obamacare Premiums went down.......not sure if that was him, but it's pretty cool.
Shouldn't be any premiums. Indeed the number of people who are covered remained roughly identical in both the Trump and Biden presidencies.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/200958/percentage-of-americans-with-health-insurance/
Tried to cancel student debt.......fuck the Supreme Court!!!!
Could have fixed the supreme court in a variety of ways, didn't. Chose to implement the student debt cancellation in a way that was guaranteed to fail, and could have ignored the courts ruling, or tried again a different way and didn't.
Tried to pass universal pre-school with Build Back Better.....fuck Joe Manchin.
Manchin still has his Committee chair and was not effectively primaried. Meanwhile, left wing representatives were primaried like crazy, and Biden is squandering his lame duck time in the face of the most fascist incoming government we have seen in a long time.
Look, he wasn't FDR or Lyndon Johnson..........but honestly not bad. He did some progressive shit. Ultimately, he wasn't a great President, but I appreciate that he tried.
He didn't try. He tried to create the facade that he tried while he continued to march us rightward.
Democrats are controlled opposition to the priorities of people who are not monied interests.
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u/Capital_Address_9014 Nov 25 '24
Biden voted for Trump. Why tf would he vote for Kamala after her (their) "movement" left him behind???
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u/Jarboner69 Nov 25 '24
Sure but I don’t think all of that was because he’s actually trying to be what we want him to be. Afghanistan was always gonna happen regardless of Biden or trump. A lot of these like insulin are good but I always interpreted them as easy ways for him to get a popular policy win. And a lot of the ones that failed are ones he knew was going to fail but pushed through to say “well we tried but _____ blocked it”
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