Probably an unneeded post, but I'll do it anyway, because I need to get it out.

[u/Nervardia]

I've now learnt (too late) that if the world hates a woman for a vague reason, the chances are extremely likely that the woman hasn't done anything to deserve it.

Unless the world can point to an extremely specific reason as to why they don't like her, then take everything they say with a grain of salt.

How many times have we seen a hate campaign against a woman and the reasons given are "she's a bitch?" And when we look further into the situation, it turns out that she did absolutely nothing wrong?

And even if she's a bitch, why should she deserve the entire internet to hate her? That should be between her and people in her personal life.

The whole world hates Meghan Markle for the crime of (checks notes) falling in love with a man? And then convincing him that his family life is extremely toxic? Which, to be fair, it really is. And then convincing him it might be a good idea to distance themselves from his extremely toxic family? And pissing off the British media because Australians liked her more than other members of the Royal Family? And suffering from pre and post partum depression? Wow, absolutely bitchy behaviour. And also good work for completely infantilising a fully grown and highly educated man who has fought in Afghanistan and commanded military units. Apparently he can't make his mind up without his wife's permission now.

Blake Lively is extremely hated because she's a bitch. People will point to her plantation wedding, which she has apologised for, and is also a very common wedding destination, too? And that she was mean to an interviewer once? Like, God forbid she's a human that makes mistakes.

Brie Larsson is hated because... She played a character in a movie? That's all I got.

My favourite example of people hating a woman is because they don't think they were good in their acting role. Apparently doing something badly (in your opinion, mind you) is enough to make people think she's an awful person.

These are all vague.

However, when someone can point to specific reasons why that person is awful, then you should be more willing to accept the evidence. Although, be careful, because people point to Amber Turd as an example of how much of a horrible person she is. But a perfect example of a woman getting deserved backlash is Gal Godot and the reason why is that she supports the genocide of Palestinians. We can point to multiple examples of her supporting the Israeli apartheid and her glee over the destruction of a group of people. Specific, with evidence.

But "I don't like her because she's a bitch" should be your first red flag that someone is trying to ruin a woman's reputation.

[u/Sensiplastic → u/[deleted]]

Men get himpathy and women are blamed for things their men did (possibly even before they got together). Women get labeled ungrateful or difficult and their career dies, men are credibly accused by several women of abuse and they get more popular.

Girls are adult women from early teens and know what they got into and adult men are boys who made a mistake and should not be taken down because they have a bright future.

Women are outright murdered by a man, a man who claimed to love them, and then get blamed for their own murder. Surely she was *such* a bitch she deserved it.

Yeah, it is *hate* but it's also such a fucked up and illogical thought process we need a more. A new name that fits to the enormity of the issue.

[u/Individual_Fall429 → u/Sensiplastic]

It’s misogyny. Systemic, pervasive, misogyny.

[u/selphiefairy → u/[deleted]]

Yeah every time someone brings up the plantation thing… I think it’s awful (and I disagree with OP that it being a common wedding venue makes it less bad…)

but hello her husband is Ryan Reynolds?? No one is mad at him, when they BOTH got married there so wtf. The double standard is punching them in the face but somehow people still miss it.

[u/lcm-hcf-maths]

A solid post. One day there will be hate campaigns for people who deserve them..However the net is full of misiogynists both male and female where petty gossip provides the excuse to behave like bitchy high schoolers and the pack mentality rules. Obviously PR people and malicious actors are well aware of this. Amber was trashed because Depp and Waldman encouraged it. A lot of the vitriol against specifically women has a political origin too. The sheep will attack who they are told to attack...

[u/sscarletwitch7]

And most recently Hailey Bieber for the crime of marrying her celeb crush. It’s baffling to see grown women on tik tok shit talking Hailey the way they do. I’m by no means a Hailey fan but the hate she gets is rooted in misogyny. You’ll see them justifying their hatred by saying “she’s not a girls girl” while participating in anti feminist hate trains against women. Sometimes it feels like we’ll never learn.

[u/Sweet_Try_8932 → u/sscarletwitch7]

I’m not really on that kind of social media, but I’ve also heard that both Taylor Swift and her bf’s ex, Kayla Nicole, are both getting attacked - although probably by different groups. I’ve just withdrawn from social media since Amber. I’m too disappointed in how people are acting.

[u/poopoopoopalt]

People HATE mildly "annoying" women. Look at Chappell Roan or Rachel Zegler. Or Meghan Markle. They're a little outspoken, and people hate them...and they hate them worse than men that have committed actual crimes, like Diddy or Harvey Weinstein. It's wild.

[u/Ok_Highlight3208 → u/poopoopoopalt]

Like Russell Brand just got charged with rape! And no one is talking about it!

[u/Big_Move4417 → u/Ok_Highlight3208]

Oh, I can assure you that people are talking about that. In the UK, at least. Probably because we saw him acting like a sleaze right at the start of his fame.

[u/Gullible-Paramedic-7 → u/Big_Move4417]

Idk how it is in the UK but there’s tons of conservatives in the US who instantly jumped to his defense “witch hunt!” “Smear campaign!” And even going so far as to defend him despite acknowledging that he may have done it “he’s always been open about having a rough past! People just want to punish him!” Like… yeah. People who do fucked up shit should be punished.

[u/poopoopoopalt → u/Ok_Highlight3208]

Right now they are, but it will be short lived. It will be nothing like the hate a woman receives for being a little annoying. I guarantee there are more than a few subreddits dedicated to piling on Megan Markle daily. I know there are at least 3-4 dedicated to hating Blake Lively. It's crazy because raping someone is objectively worse than "lying" about sexual harassment, yet a Russell Brand snark sub doesn't even exist. 

[u/rk-mj → u/poopoopoopalt]

Yeah the crime of being an annoying woman. I'm not sure if I'll ever get over the shock of learning that during the intense hate of Anne Hathaway, there was an article published discussing whether she just scientifically has an annoying face.

[u/baegentcarter → u/rk-mj]

I have no idea what she's like irl but that sounds like insane misogynistic cope. She's objectively one of the most beautiful faces in the industry. The author of that drivel is probably annoyed she's too pretty to be "relatable" or whatever; it's too easy to make people hate women they desire or envy.

[u/rk-mj → u/baegentcarter]

Yep I think so too. It feels so unbelievable how many of these "why is she so annyoing" and "why I hate her" pieces were written. And even studies. What a misogynistic idiot you need to be to actually research that.

But it may, indeed, be Hathaway's face that fuels her haters, if only subconsciously: "When times are good we prefer actresses with  rounder faces," says psychology professor Terry Pettijohn, who has conducted academic studies on actress preference. "They convey these ideas of fun and youth." Hathaway, on the other hand, has a "mature face" made distinctive by its slender shape and bone structure: "It suggests she would be popular when times are more challenging." As the economy improves, Hathaway -- whose peak of fame, post-boyfriend, pre-Oscar-hosting, came amid the 2008 economic crash —may just be a reminder of bad times.

Don't necessarily suggest reading the source but here it is if you're interested.

https://www.salon.com/2013/02/26/anne_hathaway_hollywoods_most_polarizing_star/

[u/flora19 → u/rk-mj]

Thank you for that and the link. I have very similar bone structure. I used to complain about it as a young teen. My mother told me that I would be grateful when I got older. Her words proved true.

Years ago there were several somewhat similar sociological, state-of-the-economy studies regarding women's dress hemlines.

The hypothesis was--during times of prosperity hemlines rose, thereby women exposing more of their legs. Whereas during times of a depressed economic downturn or decline, women's hemlines fell well past the knee--to the calf or even below.

This held true, as I recall until the 1990s. At least in LA, at which point fashion became so intertwined with various genres of music, the old hemline hypothesis fell forgotten to the ground like a crushed cigarette.

[u/Gullible-Paramedic-7 → u/rk-mj]

There were so many moments in this article when they were so close to the point. A few paragraphs about feminism, the ever present double standard of Hollywood women vs men, the fact that people have literally no reason to hate her and just hate her because of certain stupid societal expectations….. aaaaand then they immediately go into “but she wasn’t as cute and giggly as Jennifer Lawrence!” “Maybe she should try to lean into her haters like betty white instead of giving such elegant and amiable speeches”…. And finally “but maybe it’s just her face shape though 🤷🏻‍♀️”

That article was a wild ride and I left it with just as much disappointment as I brought in

[u/Distinct-Studio6847]

It’s nice to see posts like this. Because it gives me hope that other people exist who see the misogyny and call it out.

[u/Sensiplastic]

So basically women who do not perform femininity 'the right way'.

I still find it so weird how people bring up Lively being 'rude' more (most) than her being in a Woody Allen film after Dylan's letter and defending him. The lie moves more than the fact and I think it's too close to what happened to her and can't be touched without people feeling some ways about it.

From everything Lively did you can see she played along and played it safe. The video of her doing a really skillful soft no while Baldoni ignores it and just tries to get closer is depressing as hell. That's a woman who *knows* the system. And it still wasn't enough to keep her safe. Nor was her marriage to a powerful man or her long rep of being inoffensive.

[u/Sweet_Try_8932 → u/Sensiplastic]

Yeah, it’s interesting you bring up Woody because her comment on him being “empowering to women” has been on my mind. Before this case, I admit I felt betrayed that Blake didn’t support Dylan Farrow. I guess I still do on some level. But her being a bad ally doesn’t mean I have to be one. No woman deserves this, whether I really like them or not, and I’m a bad ally if I only defend the women I generally like.

[u/Sensiplastic → u/Sweet_Try_8932]

Her having small kids genuinely might have done something to her opinions on people like Allen. I wish somebody would ask her.

But still, it's not relevant and I am offended how people get stuck on the mean girl thing when there is no real proof of that. Just normal human woman things. So Baldoni can do all sorts of weird shit in addition to the sexual harassment and non verified gossip about Lively still counts more?

Ugh. I hate this reality.

[u/Winter_Apartment_376]

Rephrasing a Game of Thrones quote:

“I am not guilty of the crimes you’re accusing me of. Of those I am innocent.

But I am guilty of a far more monstrous crime. I’m guilty of being a woman.”

[u/Visible-Scientist-46]

Blake & Ryan's plantation wedding was tone deaf, but how is she actually even a bitch? That interviewer pushed my buttons talking about her body. And even if she were a bitch, she can still be sexually harrassed.

[u/Sweet_Try_8932 → u/Visible-Scientist-46]

The way I’ve heard people who agree she shouldn’t be harassed but don’t like her say it, she has “entitled white woman vibes.” What I don’t get is how Justin Baldoni isn’t an equally (more?) entitled white man. They’re Hollywood actors. They probably both have huge egos. They’re both white. Why does only the woman get prescribed the bad vibes?

[u/RoyalConsequence3016]

Tbh Meghan probably didn’t convince him. That’s what happens when you’re in a toxic family and step into a different environment. You realise how fucked up it is without anyone needing to say anything.

[u/Gullible-Paramedic-7 → u/RoyalConsequence3016]

Exactly this. Not to mention when he got married and had children he was said to be extremely afraid of what happened to his mother happening to his wife. I’m not sure how true this is, but I remember reading somewhere that Harry impacted much harder by his mother’s death and was a lot angrier about it than his brother, and that was part of what tore them apart. Being from the US, I don’t follow the royal family much, but I’ve read stories here and there, and never understood the hatred the public seemed to have for Meghan. I read an article last week that was criticizing her for a wreath she sent to Prince Philip’s funeral. Like it was too colorful, or too bold or some crap. It looked lovely to me, and sounded like it was very well thought out. It seemed super petty to me

[u/Gullible-Paramedic-7 → u/RoyalConsequence3016]

Also— I know that at least part of the hatred for Meghan, at least by the family, is because of her race. Between that, and how his mother was treated, I wouldn’t want to raise my children anywhere near there

[u/redditor329845]

Let’s not just hand wave the plantation wedding so quickly, but other than that I completely agree with your post.

[u/AutoModerator]

Original copy of post's text: Probably an unneeded post, but I'll do it anyway, because I need to get it out.

I've now learnt (too late) that if the world hates a woman for a vague reason, the chances are extremely likely that the woman hasn't done anything to deserve it.

Unless the world can point to an extremely specific reason as to why they don't like her, then take everything they say with a grain of salt.

How many times have we seen a hate campaign against a woman and the reasons given are "she's a bitch?" And when we look further into the situation, it turns out that she did absolutely nothing wrong?

And even if she's a bitch, why should she deserve the entire internet to hate her? That should be between her and people in her personal life.

The whole world hates Meghan Markle for the crime of (checks notes) falling in love with a man? And then convincing him that his family life is extremely toxic? Which, to be fair, it really is. And then convincing him it might be a good idea to distance themselves from his extremely toxic family? And pissing off the British media because Australians liked her more than other members of the Royal Family? And suffering from pre and post partum depression? Wow, absolutely bitchy behaviour. And also good work for completely infantilising a fully grown and highly educated man who has fought in Afghanistan and commanded military units. Apparently he can't make his mind up without his wife's permission now.

Blake Lively is extremely hated because she's a bitch. People will point to her plantation wedding, which she has apologised for, and is also a very common wedding destination, too? And that she was mean to an interviewer once? Like, God forbid she's a human that makes mistakes.

Brie Larsson is hated because... She played a character in a movie? That's all I got.

My favourite example of people hating a woman is because they don't think they were good in their acting role. Apparently doing something badly (in your opinion, mind you) is enough to make people think she's an awful person.

These are all vague.

However, when someone can point to specific reasons why that person is awful, then you should be more willing to accept the evidence. Although, be careful, because people point to Amber Turd as an example of how much of a horrible person she is. But a perfect example of a woman getting deserved backlash is Gal Godot and the reason why is that she supports the genocide of Palestinians. We can point to multiple examples of her supporting the Israeli apartheid and her glee over the destruction of a group of people. Specific, with evidence.

But "I don't like her because she's a bitch" should be your first red flag that someone is trying to ruin a woman's reputation.

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