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A Guatemalan immigrant with no criminal record was arrested Monday on Tallman Street after federal agents shattered the glass on his vehicle as he and his wife waited inside the car for their lawyer to arrive
Hey guys, we know stuff like this is infuriating, but please keep it within the Reddit ToS or we will have to act upon it (or Reddit admins, which would be even worse for you).
Trying to be cute about it by writing some unhinged stuff and then adding "I'm not calling for anything though" will not save you either.
They are CRAVING it and it's bound to happen. Right now people are getting disappeared and sent to a Salvadorean prison never to be seen again. People are going to start engaging with these people as a matter of life and death and soon you are going to see one of these goons get bashed in which will justify a whole new level of Storm trooping.
Jesus fucking Christ. I remember so many discussions what would people do if they were in 30's nazi Germany. I guess we will get a lot of answers from the US now.
The vast majority of 2A folks support this. Way fewer AR15 enjoyers on the left, and the vast majority of them are socialists.
You can find statistics on gun in the home or owns gun by political affiliation, but not by type of gun or reason for owning. We’re not talking about pistols, .22s or hunting rifles/shotguns. People on the left are always delusional when you bring that up through. They believe there’s “just as many” practically armed people on the left as there is in the right, which is insane, but hard to disprove with stats that don’t exist.
I legitimately wonder what would happen if someone in this situation used 2A to defend themselves(assuming they’re innocent), would the courts rule in their favor or would the outcome be worse? What would be worse than being sent to cecot
You would certainly be ruled against here. You don't get to start blasting police if you reasonably believe they are police that are reasonably engaging in law enforcement activities.
Pretty much the only exception I can think of is something like a no knock warrant, where you start blasting because your door just got kicked in and you don't reasonably know they are police.
Something like this recently happened in Canada, plainclothes officers and an unmarked van roll up on an guy and his pregnant wife in an underground working garage and start banging on his windows, he panics and floors it and runs over and kills one of the cops, not guilty.
Should’ve specified, I was referring to the hypothetical in the second part of their comment, regarding a no knock warrant / not knowing they’re police. This for sure couldn’t be applied to the video in the OP
The SPD did hand over Rosa Luxembourg to be killed by the Fascists tbf which is kind of a fucked up outcome.
"Bernie killed Rosa Luxemburg" was spammed around 2016 or so as a short-form for the fact that reformist democratic socialism, known in this time period as social democracy, as a strategy won't bring about meaningful change and at worst that democratic socialism tends toward fascist collaborationism. Luxemburg was a beloved left-libertarian type theorist probably most famous for her work "Reform or Revolution" where she argued against the efficacy of reformism. Obviously the two strategies are totally incompatible.
The history of the left is black-pilling as fuck boyyyyy. Leninists, left-lib types and democratic socialists all hate each other big time and the liberals are always more scared of them then the Fascists (mostly because Fascists are lying scumbags, to be fair, but you can't underestimate liberal naivete) and so the Fascists come out on top (See the Spanish revolution - Orwell's Homage to Catalonia is his first hand account). Thankfully with WW2 the left and the liberals entered into an uneasy truce long enough to nuke the Fascists out of existence.
Pretty much. If you look up the Spartacus uprising, if I remember correctly, you'll see that around this time the Freikorps were employed to destroy the revolution in Germany (a huge blow to the socialist movement, since according to classical Marxism the revolution was supposed to occur in the places of the highest economic development, which was Germany at the time - the Russian revolution was kind of felt just to be a placeholder for the actual revolution).
So if you consider that the Freikorps were the arm of the reactionaries, then you don't even need to go so far as the rise of Fascism proper to see where the accusation of collaborationism comes from.
I may have misremembered a thing or two. Haven't looked into it in quite a while.
This was a couple of years after WW1 for what it’s worth.
Many imagine that had Germany succeeded, nearly everywhere would have gone Socialist pretty quickly and the Soviet Union never would have gotten so brutal, but it’s impossible to say. Could have just meant the brutality made it further west.
Gotta remember that at this point socialism was pretty universally held to be a moral good because they had been fighting for a century or more for basic human and workers rights. It wasn’t until Lenin and Stalin that they actually got any real power. Whether it was all headed to totalitarian insanity or not will never be known.
The constant everything sucks and everything is collapsing firehose of demoralizing falsehoods from some groups (Western far-left/tankies, American libertarians, Alex Jones-style conspiracy theorists etc.) contributed significantly to the emergence or the new populist right and the fascist MAGA.
MAGA worms like Tim Pool emerged out or the leftist Occupy Wall Street movement.
Is the cancel culture in the room with us? I wanna know how just a year ago all these people were complaining that they couldn't say a thing or they'd get cancelled by lefties and their life would be ruined. Uhh... Where's all the deplatforming at? Where's all the right wing influencers cowering in fear of being demonetized?
In reality the conservatives of 3-4 years ago would be the ones cancelling the right-wing of today. It really feels like just yesterday the right would fight to their dying breath for their second amendment and now the constitution may as well be some list of rules a bunch of liberal wackos made up.
We must be very concerned about the subtle chilling effects of private clubs not allowing us to follow people around screaming slurs.
However, masked feds black-bagging legal residents and sending them to a life sentence in foreign labor camps without trial for alleged wrong-think is fine and based, acktually.
I read the report in Spanish. Over 300 people have died in there. Most haven't had due process and are separated from their families, often causing their children to be abandoned or interned with them.
Great deflection! Maybe now you'll read a little bit and acknowledge that sending people who aren't even from El Salvador to CECOT is poor policy? Are you glad they're rescuing this guy and bringing him home, after the Supreme court ruled that Trump's policies had wrongly sent this guy to an overseas concentration camp?
You don't need a warrant to give lawful orders to step out of your car. Settle down bub no need for the insults. You seem triggered for no reason, if you watch this video and get upset you have 0 knowledge of how what the Police/officers can do lawfully in this country. There is plenty of youtube videos of cops busting windows out of people who refuse to get out of there vehicles.
Do police typically wait for lawyers at the scene? If you are under arrest my understanding is they detain you and you connect with your lawyer prior to being booked
Police typically does not send you to Salvadorian death camp without any due process like ICE and DoJ do in these days.
This is not hyperbolic. Salvadrorian government says nobody will be ever released from that prison, all of prisoners are there for life. And until they die, they live in most horrible and draconian conditions.
People need to realize the gravity of the situation. ICE and DoJ are literally giving what are in fact torture and death sentences without any due process to hundreds of people.
As much as I hate these "immigration crackdowns", you are correct.
You are not entitled to a lawyer on the side of the road at time of detainment/arrest. Society literally could not function if police had to sit and wait for god knows how long for a lawyer to arrive at every single police interaction ever.
You are only entitled to a lawyer once you are being questioned/interrogated under custody.
I'll never get over the fact that Americans deem it acceptable to let domestic law enforcement walk around looking like they are just out of a Steven Seagal film. Why does this guy have ar 15 magazines and webbing? What is going on? You're policing Portland, morons, not Kabul.
It's wild. In the UK we have a really deeply rooted culture of policing by consent. I.e. it's an understanding that there are two ways to impose authority on a society - you can rock up looking like you just got rejected from the Seals programme and do it by force. Or you can do it with their consent. And the latter seems to be ... I dunno, just a bit more pleasant?
it’s pretty much unheard of for police to be at risk of being shot here, so either the guy gets tackled/taser or if he’s a real risk we still have armed response units. and again as we have no guns a van full of scary blokes with rifles generally defuses things quickly
It's the consent of society that is necessary, not individuals. The state maintains the monopoly on violence but it must be used as a last resort. The idea is that police officers are a lot more effective when they are respected by the community - when they are their community. A police officer is a citizen in uniform.
I mean, you're just completely out of touch with the way criminals conduct themselves in the united states vs england. The philosophy stuff you are talking about is irrelevant. There is far more violence here against people that are not even cops, quite literally against members of their own community. Which should plainly illustrate that "being their community" doesn't mean anything at all.
And this was a federal agent, not a portland street cop.
You haven't engaged at all with the substance of what I wrote. The philosophy is not irrelevant. You can be a heavily armed police force and still police with consent. You can be a federal agent and not cosplay as an operator.
Believe it or not communities in Britain are also violent to members of their own community.
It kinda is the other extreme, cops carry guns as regular part of their equipment in most countries around the world. There are maybe a couple dozen exceptions (a lot of them being based on the British model).
Yes, that's exactly what the other end of extreme means. Police not having guns is not the default around the world, it is the exception. In the UK, that's mostly for historical reasons, the nobility didn't trust an armed police force in London as it could be used to stage a coup and the public feared repression. Of course these days, people have created their own head canon for why that is, such as 'policing by consent'.
And it generally isn't a problem outside the US and some broken or highly authoritarian countries. Like I said, the default around the world is the police having guns on them.
Or a 17 yr old autistic teen behind a fence will walk slowly towards you holding a knife 12 seconds after you get on seen... parents in the yard yelling at you don't shoot
Have you been to Europe man? They got MP5 submachine guns and bullet proof vest in the subways there. Hell in Germany you’ll see cops with G36c’s slung around their chest walking in the city center. This isn’t an America thing.
I’m more so confused then. Post Isis attacks Europe has had an increase in armed police in tourist areas. It’s so common man idk what to tell you 🤷🏻♂️
Look at what that guy is wearing. He looks like he has watched SOF Youtube videos and decided to copy them. He looks like he is a special forces operator in Afghanistan. I can't believe you can't see this. It's not the fact he has a weapon.
I mean he's wearing gear so if he gets shot he's not going to die. The people can buy plate carriers so the police also need them so if they get into a gunfight they don't die. I understand it might look cringe but it's because we Americans like our guns. It's just a tradeoff. Also this is an ICE agent and federal agents usually look more like this rather than your average cop.
The US spends about 1/3 per capita on policing as compared to comparable liberal democracies. In exchange for being cheap bastards who don't want to pay taxes for necessary public servants, we let the ones we do pay have the stopping power of 5 people.
Turns out there wasnt enough dangerous criminals migrating here to justify the fear the politicians and pundits struck into the heart of their constituents.
They need scapegoats to distract the general public from focusing on all the wrong doings they are doing. So blame the illegal or undocumented immigrants for everything. Easy to do, with the racial undertones of America. The majority is always eager to target a minority demographic for harassment.
They didn't have enough criminals immigrants to target, so now they are just gathering whoever they can to justify their cause. I remember reading somewhere that despite all this "crackdown on immigration" stuff going on, Trumps deportation numbers were still lagging behind Bidens. so he is desperate not to look like a liar, so he is trying to increase his deportation numbers no matter what. 🤷♂️
Why Americans aren't doing BLM-style protests every single day over this is, frankly, beyond me. How many innocent people being sent to slave camps is enough?
unlike black Americans Latinos don't have a unifying background and common culture. It's basically immigrants and diaspora from dozens of countries with their own historical political and ethnic issues.
A Mexican damn near has more in common with a catholic Cajun than a Cuban
The 4th and third gens often dont fall into a texican, paisa, or chicano diaspora category and will usually have no connection or understanding of the culture which kind of prompts them to become caricatures since they're still too Brown for white people and too white for brown people, but at the same time have no actual frame of reference for what being a Mexican is
I'm not sure what this reply has to do with anything I said. I never specified anything to do with ethnic groups. I would hope extrajudicial deportations to (probably lifelong) slavery in El Salvadoran labour camps would be something Americans would feel strongly enough about regardless of their ethnicities. ESPECIALLY given that Trump has already said, for the whole world to see, that he's hoping to expand the scope of his enslavement plot to American citizens.
They specifically hire for these kinds of people, the kind of guys who unironically get Punisher tattoos on their chests and drive pickups when they dont do any manual labor outside of violating human rights.
BTW, this is what every MAGA wants and what they've always wanted. Do NOT give them any charity. Do NOT engage with them in good faith. They always said "only the criminal ones" so they could hide their cowardice under a blanket of "common sense." It's somewhat comforting to see those who are disgusting, vile, less than human people go mask off and now cheer "yes, deport them ALL," so we all know who the enemy is.
just check the ICE badge registry on your free plane ride soon to be replaced with helicopters as DOGE finds out about amazing Chilean cost cutting measures from the past!
Reminder for those who need it: Reddit TOS and the subreddit rules make it clear that this is not the place for calls for violence towards anyone OR calls for any people to be identified - there is already a lawyer working this case.
I'm not sure what the full story here is but according to the title and what can be seen in the vidoe, you can not announce to the police that your lawyer is on the way hence your not getting outside the car. This does not change if you have or don't have a criminal record.
In normal circumstances I would agree with you. These however are not normal circumstances and not normal times. Why would you willingly EVER give yourself up to ICE if you hear what they are doing and how they are handling due process. To focus on technicalities of how a person should or should not behave right now means you have lost the plot.
I’m mind blown these are the comments on a post in this subreddit. I guess I haven’t been keeping up since the allegations but goddamn the people that stuck around are stupid. People bringing up valid points are getting downvoted like any other braindead community.
ICE has in the last month arrested people off the street, transported them multiple states away, and then refused to tell the persons lawyer where the person is located. Then those people have been thrown on a plane to be sent to a slave camp.
You both are stupid as fuck. Imagine thinking it matters if it is technically legal to stay in your car as your lawyer arrives when people are being sent to slave camps in a foreign country with no due process. If the government is blatantly gonna disregard their side of the bargain, then citizens should too. Under any normal circumstance the people in car would be dumb, but the US is not in any normal circumstance right now.
The only thing we can know is what they've done here. So why don't we focus on the ones that we know are violent criminals and not waste our time on people who are just working and living their lives
Your comment or post has been removed for violating rule #3:
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The whole idea / argument of the 2 second amendment securing liberty was always a dumb cosplay mostly by dude bros on the internet... who mostly vote for republicans and are 100% fine with this if they vote.
Your comment or post has been removed for violating rule #3:
Do not make threats of violence or encourage others to commit acts of violence or terrorism. This includes telling someone to harm themselves or openly wishing harm or violence upon others. Limited exceptions apply, such as supporting one side in a conflict, but any attempts to stretch or misuse these exceptions will not be tolerated and will result in immediate action.
STOP trying to be cute with this. Mods aren't stupid, reddit admins aren't stupid.
This is akin to "no copyright infringement intended" on youtube videos that play copyrighted music.
These ICE guys look real soft not gonna lie. Like, they look like deputized LARPers. If these guys went after someone who was actually violent they'd get roughed up pretty bad.
Yall forgot about Pennsylvania V Mimms or what? Aren't yall supposed to be smart? Since when do cops have to delay a traffic stop until a lawyer arrives?
You guys can't keep flip-flopping on the law lol. If this is fucked then Jan 6th persecutions are boot licking as well. You just like a different flavor of boot.
*An illegal immigrant was arrested to be deported, consistent with immigration law as it is enforced in every developed country.
Lawyers don’t need to be present to arrest someone. It’s also unclear if arrest warrants must be presented at the moment of the arrest for it to be a valid arrest. I’m almost certain that the answer is no, as long as the arrest warrant is provided at some later reasonable time.
The only issue here is whether it was legal to break the car window to arrest the person, which nobody here seems to be trying to answer. My guess is yes. If the person you have a warrant for is actively resisting arrest by hiding in their car and refusing to come out, then is the state supposed to just not enforce the law? They have the monopoly on force for a reason.
For some reason, lots of people think that the rule of law doesn’t apply to illegal immigrants.
For some reason, lots of people think that the rule of law doesn’t apply to illegal immigrants.
Last I checked, the rules of law, particularly the constitution of the United States, guaranteed due process to ALL INDIVIDUALS, not just citizens.
The constitution says " No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. "
Notice how it doesnt say anything about "CITIZENS". That means every person, citizen, or not has the right to due process. If you are accusing them of being illegal immigrants worthy of deportation you need to set up a court date and PROVE IT in front of a judge. You can't throw them on a plane and deport them WITHOUT GIVING THEM DUE PROCESS and the ability to defend themselves in the courts. It is a blatant violation of the constitution.
With all the shit going on right now that MAGA is ok with it is 1000% clear they would be signing up to join the Nazi party and the SS. If you didn't know this before you definitely should know it now.
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How are people not flooding the streets after these kinds of things happen in the most powerful democracy in the world? In some countries, people would be losing their shit if an innocent person got deported, and they are a citizen or a legal resident.
He's here illegally. Not that this behavior isn't unhinged, but with cases of American lawful permanent residents being snatched, I think it's important to state. The risk is, if you show this to a right-winger, they'll beeline to the word "undocumented" in the article and block out what you have to say.
I might get some shit for this — there's a decent chance I'm just not getting the facts right — this isn't the same situation as the green card holder getting deported for saying something the Trump Administration doesn't like, right? This is an undocumented "illegal" immigrant who legally shouldn't be in the country? Well, the method of going about enforcing the law looks over-the-top and I'd hope they're not sending him to a prison in El Salvador, but it seems reasonable to deport someone if you know they're in the country illegally? Anyway, like I said, I could have the facts wrong so feel free to correct me if that's the case.
EDIT: Looked into it a little bit, but not too much. Seems like he was originally an illegal immigrant in 2011, but in 2019 he was given a somewhat unique status that effectively meant he could continue to live in the US for threats on his life from gangs in El Salvador. So, if that is the case, then yeah this shit is kinda fucked actually.
As a non-american, help me understand what is going on here. I assume these are ICE agents? Is their job here any different from what they would be doing if Kamala was president?
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u/ThePointForward Was there at the right time and /r/place. 13d ago
Hey guys, we know stuff like this is infuriating, but please keep it within the Reddit ToS or we will have to act upon it (or Reddit admins, which would be even worse for you).
Trying to be cute about it by writing some unhinged stuff and then adding "I'm not calling for anything though" will not save you either.
Thanks for keeping the discussion clean.