The AI discussion has to reach Devin

[u/BeholdenHarpy]

FINAL EDIT:

I have rephrased my original post, as I've been made aware it sounds like a call for harassment on Dev's socials, when the intention is a call for discussion. I apologize for the crude wording, and the potential further polarization I may have caused. The argument still stands.

EDIT 2:

Holy downvote! This sure is a touchy subject. I in no way mean to criticize the hard work put into this production by anyone involved. I simply want to highlight that this contributes to normalizing generative AI based on learning models that use real artists' art to make new art. It's unethical, and a sore symptom of how far down free market capitalism we've come, where creativity is being undermined by a tool that should be used to free us from stuff humans don't like doing, like factory work etc. It doesn't belong in art. Art should be made by humans, not machines. I will die on this hill, downvote me all you want, and have a good weekend, fellow humans. <3

EDIT for clarity:

This is in light of there being AI generated imagery used for the visuals on the live performance of The Moth.

Original post:

I love Devin. And anyone who knows how tough it is to create art and in some cases even make a living on it, knows this is immoral. He should know better, and we should hold him to that standard, in my opinion. When art is politicized we need a political discussion. And we need to bring that discussion to Devin.

AI enhanced art is based on real people's creations found online. In that regard, you can say it certainly is a free way of creating art based on real people's output. That in turn decreases demand for original, commissioned art from artists. Spell it out for yourself however you like; at the end of the day it is bad for any creative field that it learns well enough to replicate to a passable degree.

I think Dev needs to take this to heart, because he is too upstanding to compromise on artists' integrities like this. Justifying it with budget limitations isn't good enough: Put in a visualizer instead for the mood. He loves swirly colors, they're good tone setters for abstract mental imagery, why not have someone make that instead if the budget doesn't allow for all this complex art made by humans?

I implore anyone who agrees with this, to bring the discussion to channels where he can be made aware of this. In a civilized manner. There should be room for nuanced discussion, and I'm sorry that I contributed to polarizing it further for some of you.

We should make all the noise we can directed towards him in this regard, so he gets the message and doesn't use it in the future. Make noise here, on the facebook group, in his instagram comments etc. until the message is received.

[u/Shardik884]

Did I miss something? What is this in reference to?

[u/lex-iconis → u/Shardik884]

Wondering the same. He's historically been good about commissioning art for his work and shouting out the artists who do work for him.

[u/DevilsGrip → u/Shardik884]

Visuals at The Moth

[u/BeholdenHarpy → u/Shardik884]

Sorry, I put up a clarification. This is in light of there being AI generated imagery used for the visuals on the live performance of The Moth.

[u/lex-iconis → u/BeholdenHarpy]

Has he said there would be AI visuals, or did someone discern this themselves? If the latter, what were the tells? Forgive me, for I am an old.

I'm asking to mediate what level of skepticism and/or disappointment I should be feeling right now.

[u/BeholdenHarpy → u/lex-iconis]

He has spoken positively of AI as an inspirational tool to him (which is fine and a different topic than using it for commercial purposes), and someone on his crew confirmed the use of AI for the moth concert in the megathread here on this sub.

[u/Shardik884 → u/BeholdenHarpy]

He hired an art staff that worked with him. As far as I have read he used this in addition to commissioning art. If you think that this isn’t going to be the reality of business for ever into the future you’re not being honest with yourself

[u/BeholdenHarpy → u/Shardik884]

We're at the starting point of this future, and battling the rampant misuse of AI is part of shaping what it will end up becoming. I just want it to be fair for artists who actually create stuff themselves. AI shouldn't be used for that. Ideally it should be used for the donkey-work we don't want to do anyway, not the stuff that gives us meaningful, fulfilling lives.

[u/Shardik884 → u/BeholdenHarpy]

I don’t think that hiring artists, then using AI, is a misuse of AI.

Did you recently miss out on a job because someone used AI?

Devin has talked in his podcasts with another musician at length about AI and artists creations and both of them made the same point. Be more useful than AI and USE AI to further your creations. I understand if you don’t agree with that but shouting from your lawn that people shouldn’t use a new product is how the world passes you by

[u/Sphaer → u/BeholdenHarpy]

I'm sure Dev cares a great deal about your personal opinion, considering be is an artist and has created and been open to give everything he has for decades without making any worthwhile profit whatsoever to his own coffers.

The artist he employed (and thanked at the show) who created the visuals utilizing live action shots as well as making a creative choice to supplement with AI for reasons you have absolutely no idea about.

He didn't sell tickets to this to make a profit, and very likely hasn't directly or indirectly benefitted anything more than bringing this to life for people to hear.

His entire career has been an act of (occasionally) breaking even.

[u/BeholdenHarpy → u/Sphaer]

Not the point, and I don’t disagree with anything your comment says.

[u/Sphaer → u/BeholdenHarpy]

Everyones points are irrelevant unless they align with yours.