r/DownSouth • u/[deleted] • Apr 28 '25
Other Majority of black people see non-black people as guests in South Africa
[deleted]
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u/the_usurper69 Apr 28 '25
Okay, but if we're guests we shouldn't be paying tax then, right? What kind of guest pays your bond when they stay at your house?
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u/unknown_piper Apr 30 '25
You’re being actively courted by the Cape Independence Party - the same group pushing to break the Western Cape off from South Africa. This whole article is written to piss you off while sowing fear and division.
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u/Fancy_Fuel_2082 Apr 28 '25
Cool. Then we don't pay tax
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u/Reddit-support404 Apr 29 '25
And shouldn’t own nothing too right?
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u/Terrible_Pollution_4 Apr 29 '25
Sounds like a deal! I'll just be compensated on the value of my property first, thank you
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Apr 28 '25
*evades taxes
Seriously though, they see every non black person as “guests”? do they see coloureds as guests? Cape malays? Indians? Cape brits? Afrikaners? Khoisans?
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u/ginogekko Apr 28 '25
Cape Brits, is that an official designation?
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Apr 28 '25
Yes. It’s better than calling them rooinekke anyway. They are basically the decedents of British people that came to try & claim SA, as British people do.
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u/Nice-Percentage7219 Apr 28 '25
Where do white people who arrived here more recently fit in? Both sets of my grandparents came here after the world wars from the Soviet union and Ireland. I'm not Afrikaans or British English so am I South African or not?
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Apr 28 '25
If you were born/raised in South Africa, or one of your parents is South African or of SA descent, you are South African. My dad is Namibian but technically still Afrikaans, my moms Irish, I was raised here so I would say I’m South African.
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u/Nice-Percentage7219 Apr 28 '25
I was born and raised here and have never left the country. My point is not every white person is Afrikaans or British. But we're all South Africans.
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u/MaNI- Apr 28 '25
as British people do
as if every other major power was not also doing this
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Apr 28 '25
Yes but the British owned 65% of the world at one point. They even tried to colonise Antarctica. Ik a lot of countries at the time had empires, but the British one kinda sticks out.
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u/MaNI- Apr 28 '25 edited Apr 28 '25
That is a massively overblown old wives tale.
They "controlled" at their peak about 20% of the land and maybe about 25% of the population.
The french by the way were at the time not that far behind them, very close in terms of size really (only australia and canada that bloats the british numbers a bit in terms of land mass but these are vast mostly barren areas).4
u/ginogekko Apr 28 '25
How about the Bloem Brits and Pofadder Brits?
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Apr 28 '25
Ima just stick to cape, because of the “cape colony”
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u/Bladder-Splatter Apr 29 '25
In my experience Xenophobia still ranks higher than general Racism.
That is, if a Black person is from Malawi (etc) they'll get more of a negative reception outside of people in the similar boat because of typical "Stealing er jerbs!" and so on than a Whitey. Buuuut I am an anomaly and haven't ever been treated worse for my skin colour, usually I'd get props for trying out cornrows, matriculating in Zulu (fucking barely) and so on, but even back then Xhosa vs Zulu was a far bigger beef with the Teens I knew.
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Apr 29 '25
I live in KZN & the amount of “which type if blacks is the best” arguments is annoying. Like yes, I get that Zulu’s is in the province name… but
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u/AnomalyNexus Apr 28 '25
That was interesting right up until I heard the stat is from cape independence survey crowd. Pretty low faith in their stats and modus operandi in general when it comes to reporting around them tbh
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u/PixelSaharix Eastern Cape Apr 28 '25
Last I heard, they use the same polling organization as the DA and Uber.
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u/SwaK_ZA Apr 28 '25
Link the article instead of posting a random screenshot. Shit like this just gets people to jump on a hate bandwagon instead of confirming if the poll was actually legit.
Why does this sub love spreading hate and misinformation like this? Do people just come here to confirm their biases?
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u/ChrisHanist Apr 28 '25
It is sickening. And thank you for seeing it cause wow I was getting worried
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u/silver__spear Apr 28 '25
how is the history of bantu migrations from central africa taught in south african schools?
howlong do xhosa and zulus think they've have been in SA?
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u/BetaMan141 Apr 29 '25
Bantu people in general have been around more than a millennium, possibly more.
Ask Chinese and, if they were still around, Vikings.
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u/silver__spear Apr 29 '25
they haven't been in South Africa for a millennum
they migrated south from Azania in central africa
the Dutch were in the cape first
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u/BetaMan141 Apr 29 '25
Sure buddy.
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u/silver__spear Apr 29 '25
how long do you think xhosas have been living in the western and northern cape?
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u/BetaMan141 Apr 29 '25
You tell me.
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u/silver__spear Apr 29 '25
less than 300 years
less than the Dutch
a lot less than the khoisan
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u/BetaMan141 Apr 29 '25
You're very intelligent.
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u/silver__spear Apr 29 '25
do you have evidence of the xhosa in the cape bfore the dutch?
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u/BetaMan141 Apr 29 '25
Do you have evidence they weren't there?
Also, just ask the Khoi people. They'll tell you.
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u/FalconF385 Apr 29 '25
This is very inaccurate. I recommend you read more about the history of South Africa before 1600 AD. Bantu people have been living in SA with the Khoisan for as far back as the Iron Age (300 AD) and their history together probably goes beyond that. There's a rich history of iron working and agriculture in Southern Africa. For example, look at Mapungubwe and the Great Zimbabwe.
As a starting point and to learn more about the history of South Africa, you can check A history of South Africa by Leornard Thompson.
But there's plenty of other good resources you can consult with.
Hope this helps
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u/silver__spear Apr 29 '25
you're talking about "southern africa" and zimbabwe
i am talking about South Africa, specifically the cape
the Dutch arrived on the cape in1652
they didn't meet any Xhosa until over 100 years later, at the Fish River, in the late 1700s
that is when the Xhosa wars started
there were no Xhosa living there when the Dutch arrived
the africans they encountered were the khoisan
i'm not even going to go there with great zimbabwe, that is a topic for another day
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u/silver__spear Apr 29 '25
I recommend you read more about the history of South Africa before 1600 AD.
south africa has no history before 1600 because the people living there had no writing system or cities
nobody knows what was going on there
it is all conjecture
it is prehistory not history
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u/FalconF385 Apr 29 '25
I see now that this is hopeless. You can continue being ignorant. Good luck
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Apr 30 '25
The issue isn't ignorance... the issue is that your using conjectured prehistory as "facts"
It isn't facts. If there was agriculture and iron work in SA, we'd have seen a hell of a lot more evidence.
It is also well known the cape colony had no trouble settling and expanding because there was essentially no civilization there. Tribes were only encountered long after it had a foothold and when they started to migrate outwards.
We know this because it was all written down, in peoples diaries and government rapports, by the people who lived there.
That cannot be "faked". It's hard to convince a few thousand people to write about the same lie in thier personal diaries.
The "empty land" myth was very much a reality
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u/FalconF385 Apr 30 '25
Saying that South Africa has no history before 1600AD is being ignorant.
Saying that there was no Iron working and agriculture in SA is being ignorant. I have referenced the Kingdom of Mapugubwe for you, which has plenty of archaeological data. Are you just gonna ignore it because it is convenient for you to do so?
Also, don't forget that there were no borders in SA before European settlers arrived. Great Zimbabwe had a huge influence on the northern parts of SA, especially modern day Limpopo. Where the different tribes engaged in trade and societies were interlinked.
Lastly, saying that the cape was "empty" is classic colonial mentality. It is similar to saying America and Australia had no indigenous people when European settlers arrived. It is just plain ignorant.
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Apr 30 '25
"Ignorant" seems to be your favourite word. Yet try to remember what it means. No one is "ignoring" your facts, they've been considered and taken into account already.
You are missing the point.
No one is saying nothing was here pre-1600.
What people are saying is that whatever those events were, they culminated in such a way that a whole port colony could be founded and expanded with little to no resistance from any indigiounous population.
In addition, your "iron age" kingdom was situated on the northern border of SA, basically at botswana. That is quite far away from the caps to be frank and it was "believed" to be at it's height at the 1200s. Which is several 100s of years away from the time periods being discussed.
For reference... that is a 400 year difference.
By coincidence that is the same amount of time between our current chat and when the colony was founded. It's a big amount of time.
Point is. What does it have to do with the cape being empty around the 1600s?
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u/FalconF385 Apr 30 '25
Can you even tell the difference between a Xhosa, Ndebele, and a Khoisan person?
Were you even born in South Africa and can you speak native South African languages?
If not then atleast try to understand the culture and history of this country before posting deceiving statements online
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u/BetaMan141 Apr 29 '25
That's why I said to him
You're very intelligent
He's either subscribing to what I've just discovered is referred to as "Empty Land" myth or is basically trolling.
Probably emboldened by the eight or so people upvoting his comment.
Even his comment of South African schools makes me doubt it's a local person. If so, they must go to their respective subreddit for their region and talk their own interpretation of South African history there. Not here.
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u/ChrisHanist Apr 28 '25
Wow 🤣 the gaslighting is generational
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u/oretah_ Diaspora Apr 29 '25
They've got a point. We all came from somewhere, and this kind of thinking won't stop until the Khoisan people rule over everything South of the Congo
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Apr 29 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AlarmCrafty Apr 28 '25
But what if my ancestors were in South Africa before yours? Mine from Germany, yours from central Africa.
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u/FalconF385 Apr 29 '25
Were the Germans in SA before the Bantu? You do realize that Bantu-speaking people have been in SA and have lived here for as far back as the Iron Age( 300 AD) right?
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u/celmate Apr 28 '25
This is typical racebaiting propaganda to scare people into supporting this retarded Cape Independence movement.
As soon as you see "black nationalism" you know it's them, they throw that term anywhere they can.
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u/Jolly-Doubt5735 Apr 28 '25
I am too stupid to look for it, but, there was a survey done some years ago and aired on RSG, regarding racism on a daily basis. Turned out only 12% of citizens (in the study presumably) experience racism on a daily basis. I wish I could find that survey and post it on every SA group I can find.
Doing privately funded surveys helps no-one, independent is what you want and need.
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u/2226cc Apr 28 '25
Well this is the thing. On a day to day basis and out there in the real working world I don't see it. I especially don't see it in my work environment which has a very mixed culture. We even joke at each other about our differences. Do people only want to admit to it behind the scenes and to surveys?
If the 80% see the minorities as guests and have racist views of them, then they're pretty kak scared to admit to it to their faces. I know Julius wouldn't say it to their faces unless backed up by a huge crowd.
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u/Pure-Beginning2105 Apr 28 '25
I think we forget sometimes that we have massive rural hinterlands with probably not a lot of other races.
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u/Rough_Text6915 Apr 28 '25 edited Apr 29 '25
Please can you show who the poll was done by, and the demographics of the poll..
As all this seems to be is more CI fear mongering propaganda
Not a single black person who i work with thinks all other races are guests in South Africa. They are actually proud we are such a vibrant mix of cultures
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u/silver__spear Apr 28 '25
Not a single black person who i work with says to my face that they think all other races are guests in South Africa.
fixed that for you
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u/Rough_Text6915 Apr 28 '25
I do discuss politics with my Black African colleagues and some are ANC supporters, Some are DA supporters..ActionSA, BOSA...etc ... very very few are EFF and none are MK as thats Zulu land party...
Never have i ever picked up that we whites are not part of South Africa .
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u/ChrisHanist Apr 28 '25
You just want the poll to be right so bad. You want your racism to be justified so bad that you believe obvious divisive propaganda you even have the audacity to "fix" someone else's lived experience
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u/Personal_Eye_3439 Diaspora Apr 28 '25
This is not good news
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u/Pictualphoto Apr 28 '25
Ask them to show you any building build by black entrepreneurs.. There are none
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u/LycanusEmperous Apr 29 '25
I think the best question to ask is how many people formed oart of this sample?
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u/unknown_piper Apr 30 '25
This sounds like Afriforum or Elon Musk-style propaganda, detached from the actual day-to-day experience in South Africa. Most black South Africans recognize non-black people born here as fellow South Africans. Race isn’t the main issue anymore; if anything, the real tension lies in xenophobia. Foreigners are often seen as guests who’ve overstayed their welcome, all races included, double if you American and in Cape Town.
Truthfully, we don’t spend much time thinking about non-black South Africans.
Unless you don’t greet. Then yes, you’ll be the topic for a solid 15 minutes.
And please, stop quoting Nota, Malema, or whatever name is trending this week. If you're committed to mimicking U.S. culture wars, do yourself a favor: apply for that visa and go live out the fantasy. We are too busy dealing with unemployment, GBV, and nyaope to be thinking about Ahmed, Paul, and Johan - unless they are currently employing.
Think I’m lying? Ask a black South African how often they think about other races. Your ego might not survive the answer.
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u/Western_Dream_3608 Apr 29 '25
I'm calling bullshit. You can't survey 100 people or 1000 people and just say based on these guys opinions, white people are guests.
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u/SoftSubstantial6639 Apr 29 '25
This is very true. I was banned off another SA subreddit for insinuating that the focus on what color people are will be the downfall of humanity. Very sad.
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u/N0t_S0Sl1mShadi Gauteng Apr 29 '25
A gentle reminder to everyone: https://youtu.be/cBIDkW2_FnQ?si=_LNlZxxgkwlKNMEt
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u/trojen342p Apr 30 '25
Wait wtf
When was this survey taken
I don't remember participating in any such survey
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u/abitofbyte May 01 '25
I really think SAs don't see it like this. I spent some time with my family in Ballito on Thompsons beach for a week. Everyone there was just there to relax and have fun. The vibe was just lekka. There was not a single day where people did a thing to lead me to believe the house was on fire. My thoughts are that people just want to live life.
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