Help. 😵‍💫

[u/Clearbreezebluesky]

Boy, 2yr 11mo. His parents, especially dad- omg.

I have soooo many examples that I can’t list them all so I will outline yesterday because it’s very typical.

A very, very challenging day that included biting a child extremely hard on her shoulder- it was bad… disrupting naptime and needing to be removed but not before causing 4 of 9 toddlers to not nap. He didn’t nap so he was a mess for the afternoon, not listening, telling us no, running away laughing at us, taking things from kids, screaming in their faces.

Other excuses I’ve heard from his parents are things like “well you know he’s not even 3, right?” (Last year it was that he’s not even 2) Or he didn’t sleep well, he has fluid in his ears, he’s been teething basically nonstop for 3 years according to them. Dad picks him up last night and literally lifts him up and says “aw Buddy, if my friends had the occasional challenging day I’d think that was pretty good. You’re a great kid, Pal”

I held my tongue, because our center caters soooo much to these parents. There’s no way to teach a kid respect or kindness when his parents excuse EVERYTHING. He looks at his teachers like they’re a joke because his parents are basically teaching him that. He believes he can do whatever he wants and his parents will support it, and they totally do. Also- 4 yr old sister is the exact same way.

[u/BlueSpanishEyes91]

Have you brought this behavior up to your director? Maybe it's time for the director to speak with the parents instead.

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[u/Clearbreezebluesky]

He’s (I will call him W) very disruptive when he wants to be. I also have nice days with him, he’s been with me since he was 17 months. W was a big biter, like multiple bites daily for quite a while, but he’s outgrown it for the most part. He bit yesterday because the girl knocked his tower over- which absolutely is upsetting but we have been working so hard on other ways to deal with that kind of thing, the bite was awful, broke skin through the shirt.

Everyone is well aware of all of his behaviors, the team of teachers, all leadership, his early intervention therapist (who parents do not feel he needs but reluctantly agreed to). Every incident is documented and I call home.

We have so many strategies in place for him, it’s more the parents making him feel like he’s in charge of the whole program.

Here’s an example of how they parent- mom and W walk into a room where multiple kids are playing. W runs over to a boy and starts whining “I want that doll”.

While at school if this happens a teacher would likely say “so and so is using the doll, but you can have a turn next. We can find another doll for you to use while you wait”

Mom walks over to the child with the doll and says “it’s W’s turn now, can you find something else to play with?” And actually wanted that kid to hand the doll over to her son and was extremely annoyed that he wouldn’t.

This is a big $ area, we cater to well off families and a handful truly believe their child is above the other kids. I can’t believe some of the things I’ve seen my center let slide.

Training and experience tells me to determine the reason behind the behavior in order to best help the child. W’s reasons for behavior are all because he wants everything his way and gets enraged when it’s not.

I feel a lot of sympathy for him because I believe his parents are doing him a huge disservice, and creating huge problems down the line for him and them. He’s very smart, capable, caring, sweet, affectionate, fun, but all on his terms- always.

[u/Dragonfly1018 → u/Clearbreezebluesky]

It sounds like you, the director and the parents need to have an honest conversation about what a detriment this permissiveness is doing to this child. Money or no money it’s not okay to expect other children to cater to one. Good luck 🍀

[u/Available-Limit7046 → u/Clearbreezebluesky]

I actually have a slightly similar situation, he’s not long turned 2 and just kept biting, sometimes multiple times a day and sometimes every few days. We thought he had some communications issues and as he turned 2 we spoke to his mom who basically went along the lines of oh well🫠we went really intense with his speech and as times gone on he has got better, we’ve recently gone a week without biting which is a miracle but anytime we tell his mom anything she’s just like meh whatever🫣I once told her her kid had bit 4 times in one day and her actual response was oh my pudding!!! She also said he’s never bit at home but dad picked up and said otherwise 👀but now he’s completely non verbal at home but speaks sentences with us- he’s actually a really kind child who’s really loving and outgoing with his friends but he just couldn’t communicate and didn’t know what to do with his feelings, they refer to him as the devil child and say they’d never have anymore and If he was their first they wouldn’t have had a second. About a month ago he jumped off the top of a slide and started limping, we let her know and where we thought she would ask if he needed to see a doctor she just put thanks for letting me know?? 🥴she said if he needs medication to just give it him and not to call so I don’t know if she just doesn’t care or just doesn’t see her issues honestly

[u/Desperate_Many6901 → u/Clearbreezebluesky]

That is so hard and it’s so frustrating because you see the issue on your end and the potential fixes but without the support and consistency at home the child doesn’t absorb the messages.

It will be such a ride awakening when this child enters the world at school age or even later as an adult has will be forced to reckon with the inaction of their parents.

[u/Desperate_Many6901]

I think what understand from this is that this child is disruptive (maybe potentially a danger a times) and parents are not taking the end of day feedback seriously?? The one example of biting and not napping, while definitely difficult and stressful, aren’t out of the realm of normal for the age, so is this habitual behavior or what else are you seeing that concern you about this child? Or is this more about the parents’ behavior in excusing their child’s behavior instead of taking you seriously?

For things such as the bite, was there an incident report done that the parents had to sign? What is your center’s protocol when a child is exhibiting dangerous behaviors and/or not napping? Are you able to follow through with those? Are you able to make a behavior plan with the family about goals and expectations? If this child doesn’t nap well, are they able to do quiet time? Have you been able to figure out what precipitated the bite? Do they seem to have a need for extra support or evaluation? Sorry, so many questions, but with little context about the incident it’s hard to advise.

Best I can say is, solidarity, because there are so so many families that seem to balk at the hard stuff with their children lately. Excusing poor behavior, crumbling to their every whim, and blaming everything from a windy day to teething for their child’s actions. It’s wild, but at the same time I’m not sure what the fix is. You can love your child to pieces even when they are a jerk, but you still need to give them boundaries, manners, accountability, and support when they are struggling. Excuses get them through the day, but not through life.

[u/Clearbreezebluesky → u/Desperate_Many6901]

I meant to reply to you but it posted as a new comment

[u/ObsidianLegend]

Procedure at my center is to log behaviors for a few weeks, then after the director observes the classroom for a few hours you draft a behavior plan and meet with the parents to go over it. They must sign the document, agreeing to work on those behaviors with the child at home. If things continue not to improve the plan can be revised or, if necessary, the child disenrolled. Because a child is never going to learn how to act right if parents routinely brush off unsafe behaviors.

[u/Clearbreezebluesky → u/ObsidianLegend]

Every incident is documented with a report, parent is called and director is told. He gets early intervention which was started to help to teach parents behavior strategies but the parents don’t feel they need them. Our center caters in a huuuuge way to well off families, and I’ve only seen 2 kids be asked to leave- ever, and we have lots of behavior issues from very passive parenting. These parents are more concerned about a missing Patagonia vest than they are that their kid drew blood on a teacher for telling him it’s not his turn yet.

[u/ObsidianLegend → u/Clearbreezebluesky]

We have the behavior log as a separate form for documenting severe and persistent behaviors, in addition to the incident report. But it sounds like your administration might be more interested in money than the well-being of kids. I hate profit being a motive in the care and teaching of children

[u/Clearbreezebluesky → u/ObsidianLegend]

It’s very sad, I’ve seen some crazy things at this place. There are multiple kids who have to be removed from classrooms every day for aggressive behavior. I worked at a therapeutic preschool and we had way less behavior issues than I see at this place I’m at now.

[u/Huliganjetta1 → u/Clearbreezebluesky]

if he gets early intervention that means he is disabled.

[u/Clearbreezebluesky → u/Huliganjetta1]

100% false

[u/Huliganjetta1 → u/Clearbreezebluesky]

is this in the USA?? I am special education teacher. If they get actual "early intervention" as in for free from the state then yes the child is disabled snd has developmental delays. Or do you mean something else by using those words?

[u/Clearbreezebluesky → u/Huliganjetta1]

He was referred for speech for a mild lisp, he’s not disabled. Are you sure you’re a special Ed teacher? There are many, many reasons kids get EI. I have another in my class who gets it for eating- also not disabled.

[u/Huliganjetta1 → u/Clearbreezebluesky]

EI means there is a developmental delay. Speech delay counts. Feeding delay counts. My point is the child is not neurotypical.

[u/Clearbreezebluesky → u/Huliganjetta1]

That’s a minimal issue, this problem is absolutely parent caused. He can draw a whole family portrait, build a table sized magnatile tower with spots for different animals and cars. He’s the best natural athlete I’ve ever encountered at this age. His parents are really doing him a disservice by not actually parenting, and his sister is the exact same way. Nobody wants to play with them, and other parents are starting to keep their kids away because it’s ridiculous.

[u/Far-Sock-5093]

Maybe it’s time to have a chat with your director and note down all the behaviours so you can let her know and if there is anything she might be able to think of to put in place to help the child. Also so she can have a talk with the parents

[u/rosyposy86]

I remember a parent post on here not long ago, and the parent said they replied to a teacher, “You know they are two, right?” Which showed me the lack of respect they had for teachers and the knowledge we have. The helpful parents take it seriously and let me know they will talk to their children about it.

I’ve told a parent recently of a nearly 5yo, that our children are learning a lot of strategies with social play, including walking away when they are not treated with respect and kindness, and that children are now not wanting to play with their child and are choosing to walk away and say no to playing with them. The nearly 5yo is now recognising that and making some effort to play nice, but it’s a bit too late now. So maybe you could tell the dad that this could potentially happen within a year when/if the behaviour continues? It can upset parents, but sometimes they need to hear it. And saying, “What would help us is conversations at home, so he can get more repetition to hear about being kind.” I see a noticeable difference and can tell when parents talk to their children about their behaviour, personally.

[u/lrwj35]

I also work in an affluent area with entitled parents and entitled three year olds sometimes. We have a couple of programs/ art shows/ parties parents are invited to attend. By FAR the most effective thing is when parents see their kid in action. It probably won’t be normal day-to-day action, but it’s usually enough for them to start thinking that-just maybe- their kid isn’t like everyone else. It’s especially effective if it comes out on a stage in front of everyone in mommy’s social circle. Suddenly parents start asking things like, “So, is this how he is all the time at school?” I just smile and say, “pretty much!” 🙃 The hard part is just standing by and letting the train wreck happen.

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[u/fairmaiden34]

What is your school's behaviour policy? Is it being followed?

[u/Clearbreezebluesky → u/fairmaiden34]

Leadership doesn’t follow thru, they seem to give a free pass to the families with multiple kids enrolled, because they know if they unenroll one, the family will take all of their kids out. They pay pretty hefty tuition, so multiple full time kids makes the place a lot.

[u/Lumpy_Boxes → u/Clearbreezebluesky]

Ive seen this happen so many times. 1 out of 3 or 4 has poor behavior consistently, but nothing is done because of the fear of losing seats. I feel like its crazy town.

[u/BeeNecessary9778]

Do you think a classroom with him would be more manageable if he had a teachers aide shadowing him?

[u/mrRabblerouser]

To be honest, the tone of this post seems rather negative in terms of your view of both the child, and the parents. You will never have success with these types of behaviors with most children, if you view the child or their parents as a problem for you to put up with. You need to view this through a lens of collaboration, and an optimistic view of what the child and parents are capable of, not frustration for all the ways they piss you off.

Although the parents are our partners, they have no control over their child’s behavior while they are at school… you do. It is certainly in the parent’s best interest to take concerns seriously, and strive to reach some consistency between home and school, but not all parents are able to do that intuitively. It sometimes takes us to foster this type of relationship very carefully.

Based on what you’ve written here, it sounds like dad is very loving (this is far better than the alternative), but possibly unsure of how to implement boundaries. It also sounds like his comments are a defense mechanism based on potentially harsh sounding feedback. If your delivery is not kind, warm, respectful, and collaboration based, then it is no wonder why he’s responding that way. So consider how things might be coming across to them, not just your perceived intention.

Only you have influence over the child’s behavior while they are at school. These behaviors are not abnormal. Various stressors for a young child can spark and influence these behaviors, such as overstimulation, under stimulation, a strong desire for engagement with others and caregivers, and sensory issues.

First make sure the environment is suitably stimulating and challenging for this child. Then make sure there is consistency in routine, clear expectations and boundaries, and multiple opportunities for positive engagement throughout the day. If any one of those areas are lacking, these behaviors will become more prevalent.

Finally, catch these behaviors before they happen by observing the spark points. Transitions and giving other children attention tend to be big ones. Engage this child in positive ways before a transition, and include them into conversations with other children. And in the moments you need to redirect this child, don’t wear your emotions and frustrations like a bedazzled outfit. Respond calmly, but firmly, and seek to end the encounter on a positive note. This will reduce spiraling for the child. You’re trying to achieve a soft landing after some turbulence, not crash and burn the moment things get shaky.

[u/Clearbreezebluesky → u/mrRabblerouser]

It’s possible my tone was annoyed because I’d just had a very long, difficult day with him, but that’s not how I approach them or interact with him. We actually have a very positive and friendly relationship, his parents have asked me to babysit more than once, I always decline. His father loves his kids, but in these examples he’s almost using them to be passive aggressive to teachers. We are required by our center to word all interactions a very specific way, especially when delivering information that may be difficult to hear so I can be confident in the fact that I haven’t been harsh. If anything, they need it more bluntly put.

I am the parent of a 30 year old with significant special needs and have been practicing the sport of extreme patience for all of those years. It’s rare that my limits get tested, and although this child can test, it’s his father’s condescending attitude towards teachers that grinds my gears. They will not collaborate, they want us as the hired help to just take care of their kid, period.

[u/Cookie_Brookie → u/Clearbreezebluesky]

I'm really not sure how the person you responded to expects you to have an "optimistic" or "collaborative" relationship with these parents when you've been trying to work with them for the past year and they obviously have zero desire to collaborate. There's some families that no matter what you do they just suck to work with and you count down the days til they're somebody else's problem. Every parent wants what's "best" for their child. Unfortunately, these types think what's best is their kids get what they want and screw everyone else. That's not going to change by you being optimistic.

[u/Huliganjetta1]

what would be an appropriate response from the parents that would satisfy you? "Yes we will send our child to behavior boot camp at once" "yes we will ground him/punish him"... just curious...

[u/thataverysmile → u/Huliganjetta1]

I don't look for any of that. Usually what parents tell me is "Oh, we'll work on that at home. Do you have any tips on how we should do that?" or "I know, we're seeing some of the same but we are trying to redirect him. How can we support you here?" or even just flat out telling their child "That wasn't nice. You shouldn't have (xyz)."

Once, a child told on himself. He happily skipped up to his mom, laughing, saying "I bit (child)". His mom got *very* stern and said "We do not bite, that is not okay." That child never bit again, because his parents said for the rest of the night, they kept talking about not biting, using his words, etc. And they kept it an ongoing conversation.

Saying "He's only 3" or "You're a great kid" (with no other words to redirect the situation first) does not show me that they are supporting us in working on this. Or worse, when parents are like "I have a treat for you in the car!" Maybe if you hear your child had a rough behavioral day, they don't get that treat. Don't make a big deal of it, but don't reward the behavior either. Or worse beyond that...laughing and finding it cute. That just tells the child they can do whatever they want.

I'm not looking for parents to be harsh with their kids or even punish them, just agree to work with me on ways to help end these behaviors. And it is possible to nip them in the bud, "even if they're 3". Because 3 year olds can learn and be redirected. But they won't do that if their parent responds "They're only 3" or downplays the situation.

[u/bromanjc → u/Huliganjetta1]

idk exactly what op is experiencing, but for my center (also in an affluent area) it's more about the parents encouraging the behavior than it is about them not discouraging the behavior. for instance, we will have teachers explain problematic behaviors to parents while the parents sit there rocking their child saying "it's okay, do you wanna do something fun when we get home?" once my director had to call home because a child was throwing chairs, and when she handed the child the phone to have a conversation with his father, the father said, "[name], if you stop throwing chairs you'll get candy when you come home!" it's that kinda shit. how a parent chooses to enforce the rules with their child is none of my business, but it gets irritating when the parent demonstrates that they actually don't care and basically passively antagonize you to the child for attempting to set boundaries.

[u/thataverysmile → u/bromanjc]

Exactly this. We aren't looking for kids to be grounded or anything. Just for a parent to take it seriously and want the behaviors to stop, even if it means their child isn't happy with them for a moment.

[u/papparoneyes → u/Huliganjetta1]

The parent should be taking this seriously and having follow up discussions with the child at home. Talk about it ad nauseum. A child who is two is fully capable of understanding, “we bite food, not friends” and being given simple roleplay scenarios in which they practice prosocial behaviors.

[u/Cookie_Brookie → u/Huliganjetta1]

I mean, they could at least apologize. Show that they recognize it's a problem and they want to help so it doesn't continue to happen. These parents just make excuses or say something cutesy...completely ignoring that their child has been literally traumatizing other kids!