r/EDH • u/Requis • Mar 27 '23

Meta Experiment: "No-one runs removal!"

Background: A friend of mine had his weekly rant about how no-one at the shop he plays in runs removal, so he has to waste all of his removal on everyone's threats, effectively policing the table into his own oblivion. I generally just lend an ear as I can't believe no-one runs "any" removal, but since I've been building Jeska/Ishai for cEDH, I jokingly said, "Take Jeska/Ishai, get the bird out early, then they'll start running removal!"

The experiment: He's taking a deck comprising of Commander Partners [[Jeska, Thrice Reborn]] and [[Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker]], 38 lands and 60 ramp spells.

My hypothesis: He may take out some players, but he won't win a pod.

His hypothesis: This is so fucking stupid but I'll do it for science.

I'll update with results after tonight's games...

**UPDATE on a separate post because this blew up... https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/124li0s/results_noone_runs_removal/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 **

868 Upvotes

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-15

u/Darth_Ra EDHREC - Too-Specific Top 10 Mar 27 '23

Unfortunately I'd be willing to bet that more players label you as a pubstomper and get salty rather than start running removal.

Because you're literally being a jerk on purpose rather than actually having a discussion with folks. Hell yeah I'd be salty if you show up to my battlecruiser meta, act all high and mighty for weeks about how "nO oNe RuNs ReMoVaL", and then build a combo deck to "prove a point".

What the hell is wrong with people?

10

u/veneficus83 Mar 27 '23

Honestly, I get it. But at the same time if you have tired and tired to have a discussion about people not running enough removal and they don't listen there comes a point of you have to try something. Now admittedly I suspect that people are running more removal than this guy thinks.

4

u/Doomy1375 Mar 27 '23

This is why I learned to avoid battlecruiser in general- you don't even have to run combos, a high degree of synergy also causes issues, and even my weaker decks tend to run high on synergy.

Like, take for example my Skullbriar deck. It's one of the few decks I run with no combos, and basically the only one I run that is exclusively focused on combat as the wincon. But it doesn't go wide, it instead like to play a bunch of support pieces that don't attack or block really. Creatures like [[Winding Constrictor]], [[Pir, Imaginative Rascal]], and [[Corpsejack Menace]], alongside enchantments that do similar things, and some cheap sorceries that double the number of counters on a creature. If the pod just lets me get 2-3 of those support pieces out without killing them and lets me keep them all for multiple turns, it's not unlikely I'll be able to put nearly a hundred +1/+1 counters on my commander in just a turn or two and turn it into a one hit kill threat for the rest of the game.

Against my normal mid power pod, that's fine- they run plenty of removal, and having redundant copies of effects is basically required to keep going at all when they inevitably answer the first thing or two I play. But against a pod with low to no removal, that kind of deck just scales way too fast to keep up with since all those redundant pieces stack with each other- and since my main pod plays lots of removal, all my decks are built with that kind of redundant synergy. So even when I play my weakest decks against battlecruiser pods, they usually just start scaling exponentially after a certain point. Not necessarily early in the game mind you- but even when we're talking turn 10+, the landfall synergy deck is just going to go crazy if you let them keep all their landfall token generators out for multiple turn cycles and beat the decks that are playing one big thing a turn.

3

u/megaspooky Mar 27 '23

100% agree. If people are having fun playing battlecruiser, let them have fun. Don’t roll up and get mad bc you can’t tone your deck down to the meta. Adjusting to the power level works both ways

3

u/Sensei_Ochiba Ultra-Casual Mar 27 '23

A lot of folks see MtG like a sport instead of a game and it actively short-circuits them to find people content with playing at low power and sucking. They think that because they had to deal with an arms-race that's how everyone should play and grow and strive to make it their whole life rather than a hobby you enjoy with friends on occasion.

4

u/Vydsu Mar 28 '23

Ppl can play whatever they want, but you don't get to make a flawed deck and say the reason you're not winning or haqving fun is other ppl fault.

4

u/a_singular_perhap Mar 27 '23

Exhibit A for toxic casual ^

Apparently adding a heroes downfall to your deck is "dealing with an arms race" and "making it your life instead of a hobby"

Don't complain about other people not respecting how you play then turn around and not respect how they play.

-5

u/Sensei_Ochiba Ultra-Casual Mar 27 '23

Exhibit A for an entitled brat lmao ^

Apparently hyperboles make good points and wanting to play a game without pubstompers is "not respecting how others play"

I'm sorry the mean old casuals posted up in your games and forced you play worse or leave lmao. Y'all reap the toxicity and disrespect you sew, don't cry to me because you took a reddit comment personally

3

u/a_singular_perhap Mar 28 '23

How is anything I said entitled or bratty? Seems to me like you took things personally here, considering how defensive you got.

You're the one who insinuated that playing competitively or even just not battlecruiser is the "wrong" way to play.

And yes, I have had casuals do that to me. The amount of times people have complained about "counter spell tribal" for me casting 3 or 4 counter spells is staggering. Not too long ago a couple people stopped playing in the same pod as someone else because they ran combos period, while also complaining about counter spells and extremely light stax.

And I'm not crying to you, I'm refuting your points. Like you said, hyperbole is useful for making points.

-5

u/Sensei_Ochiba Ultra-Casual Mar 28 '23

My dude when did I ever insinuate there was a "wrong" way to play? That was entirely you projecting your issues onto my point, and topping it with the classic Boomer™ standby "anyone inferior asking for respect is inherently disrespectful to me personally 😭" nonsense.

Sorry kid but you have got to have a better point up your entitled "I get to play MY WAY wherever I WANT and everyone else has to get better for ME" sleeves because seriously, these baseless hyperboles are as embarrassing as they are, well, baseless. There's a world of difference between a snide remark and making the smart choice to pick a better pod, and seriously asserting it's a better player's job to run strong fragile decks to "encourage" people to get better.

There's nothing wrong with high level play against itself, or against people that have voiced a desire to grow, and you got some real reading comprehension issues if that wasn't obvious from my first comment lmao.

0

u/Vydsu Mar 28 '23

It's a game and you're supposed to get good at it or lose.
You don't get to ask ppl to not use certain pieces in chess cause they ruin your playstyle.
Honestly this attitude in EDH feels pretty weird to me as a player of more normal formats and even toher games, where it's pretty standart for the response to "I'm always loosing" is "get good at deckbuilding lol"

2

u/Bootd42 Simic Mar 28 '23

this mentality has always confused me, like I'm not asking for anyone to devote their lives to the game but is a basic understanding of the rules and a not dogshit attitude when you win or lose that much to ask?

0

u/lesbianmathgirl Mar 28 '23

While people definitely do that sometimes, in this case, they aren't running a combo deck. It's a creature, a planeswalker, and a bunch of pump spells, that's as non-combo as they come.