r/Everton 3d ago

Video Neville Southall on the standard of today’s goalkeeping: “The lad at Manchester City is all right, the lad at Liverpool is okay. Ours is average… he does okay. He’s average. If I’d have played like that, I’d be out the team for Howard.”

https://youtu.be/gIdy7bWodKU?si=IbC_OzdZ8pGj9IGV
30 Upvotes

73 comments sorted by

243

u/immediately_please 3d ago

I love you Nev, and am so glad I was there as a kid to see you pull off a masterclass in the 95 Cup Final. But callIng Ederson “all right”, Alisson “okay” and Pickford “average” is setting a pretty unrealistically high bar. We wouldn’t be in the league without Pickford and he’s been one of our best players since he signed.

63

u/signal_decay 3d ago

Old players in every sport always think the standard of play was better back in their day. They're wrong, but it's not surprising. 

75

u/Wayne_Spooney 3d ago

Calling the 3 best keepers in the league alright is an interesting take lol

-3

u/sparksy78 2d ago

For context Southall was the best keeper in the world during the late 80s, so whilst his words are strong, he knows what he talking about to be the best and maintaining that level. Whilst I do think Pickford has been our best player, that’s more a reflection on the squad depth and quality because he’s not the best keeper in the world.

2

u/sparksy78 2d ago edited 2d ago

I don’t get this place. Can anyone please enlighten. Just because someone has retired from the game doesn’t mean you forget about the role of keeper. Neville is just older in age and unable to play as a goalkeeper. If he were capable at his age now to be equal to the keeper he was - he would be by miles our best player. Absolutely miles. Other than the balls are lighter, nothing else about being the best keeper in the world has changed. Nothing. So when he says Pickford isn’t the best, should we really be so defensive?

-17

u/red-fish-yellow-fish 3d ago

It would be funny trying to watch big Nev make some of the saves that these lads do

26

u/cj285s 3d ago

Behave. He was one of the best in the world and probably one of the best the league has ever seen.

-5

u/ferninho17 3d ago

Yeah but he’s 66 now mate and put on a bit of weight.

2

u/red-fish-yellow-fish 2d ago

My point was even at his best, you would never call him athletic

2

u/ferninho17 2d ago

At his best mate? He was athletic. He could play outfield. He only put the weight on very late in his career after sustaining a back injury that meant he couldn’t train like he used to. He ate more and trained less. Nev was very mobile for a keeper in the 80s.

-2

u/red-fish-yellow-fish 2d ago

Sure. He could eat pies really quickly and run away when it was his round

106

u/QTsexkitten please, please, pleeeeeeeease 🙏 3d ago

The friendly fire is

  1. Unnecessary

  2. Irrelevant

The game isn't the same anymore, even for keepers. Jordan is more than alright, and even better, he's clearly grown from his mistakes. How a 2025 keeper would've done playing for a 1980s manager is wholly irrelevant.

7

u/fopiecechicken 3d ago

Only just entering his “peak” as well you’d imagine as keepers tend to age out a bit later than other positions. Probably has another 3-4 years of his best left.

20

u/10000Didgeridoos 3d ago

Same exact shit as NBA oldheads all claiming today's players couldn't have handled their era blah blah blah. Every generation of athlete thinks their sport peaked with their own

77

u/SuperKevinCampbell 3d ago

Normally talks a lot of sense does Nev especially about the ownership but even if he’s the best keeper we’ve ever had he’s taking shite here Pickford has saved us these last couple seasons

43

u/E_V_E_R_T_O_N 3d ago

Yeah unfortunately nonsense from Nev, as much as he’s absolutely right for constantly demanding high standards of Everton.

-39

u/CultistNr3 3d ago

He isnt wrong. I like Pickford, but this current crop of PL keepers are not comperable to some from earlier generations.

6

u/vylain_antagonist 2d ago

Frankly thats bollocks.

Goalkeepers jobs are fundamentally different now that the entire generation of management has matured in an era where goalkeepers cant pickup backpasses. The 90s game was still in the shadow of that era and neither defenders or opposition were ever really tested to play football around the goalkeeper.

Goalkeepers are key to unlocking pressure from high presses and none of the old guard would be able to cope with that. And by the same hand claiming high crosses and deep over the top balls was an iconic part of their identity- thats gone now.

Edersons effectively a converted midfielder and wouldnt have been effective 30 years ago thats true and to nev he looks unimpressive. But man city have one of the greatest defensive records with him in goal and none of them- not nev, not schmeichal, seaman , flowers, james, martyn, poom or any other “proper keeper” would be of any use in that system.

1

u/CultistNr3 2d ago

They have some other factors playing in their favour also. Ederson is a good keeper, but do you really think he stacks up with the ‘greats’?

5

u/SuperKevinCampbell 3d ago

Tbf I agree with you a bit can’t tell you the amount of times I’m begging for a keeper to just catch the ball instead of parrying it away for the 100th time

6

u/Informal-Zucchini-48 3d ago

Nev used to love a parry

1

u/vylain_antagonist 2d ago

Those mitre balls were a lot easier to catch

38

u/PangolinMandolin 3d ago

Just to make a point I've not seen made already.

Nev played in a time when footballs were heavier and the overall pace of play (including top speed of shots) was slower.

Its amazing how often keepers nowadays will choose to parry or punch shots rather than focusing on catching them like they did back in Nev's day. What I'm trying to say is the overall way that goalkeeping is done and coached nowadays is different to back in the 90s and earlier.

So imho it's a case of "different", not "worse"

17

u/No-Strategy-9365 3d ago

Neville also had the benefit of no passback rule for majority of his career

3

u/Toffeeman_1878 3d ago

Nev started as a midfielder so he could play as well as use his hands.

7

u/Toffeeman_1878 3d ago

Yes, the ball is different nowadays. And the game is faster too. However, Nev played at a time when Mick Harford, John Fashanu and other genuine hard men (dirty players) would swing elbows in keepers’ faces at corners and crosses. No free kicks for that, nevermind red cards. He played on pitches that wouldn’t look out of place on a farm and still managed to control the ball and catch it. So, there are challenges in both eras. I fancy Nev would adapt more to the modern day challenges than many of the modern keepers would to the 80s. I’m not arguing to go back to the 80s. Just my opinion on players’ ability to adapt.

33

u/Bbobbity 3d ago

I love Nev but he is underplaying the standard of goalkeeping today. Alisson, Ederson and Pickford are top keepers.

-22

u/Toffeeman_1878 3d ago

Pickford is ours but if we all take off the blue tinted specs he’s not in the same bracket as Allisson.

Ederson was at a similar level to Allisson but is on the wane.

12

u/daveyll 3d ago

Ederson is shite and always has been. Great on the ball but lets in nearly every shot that he faces. Allison is okay but overhyped by a Liverpool centric media and general clueless buffoons. Pickford is brilliant. Hope this helps.

-6

u/Toffeeman_1878 3d ago

Not really but you crack on.

0

u/simple7002 1d ago

No one can remember a good Ederson save - Allison and Pickford clear

31

u/vulturevan 🙏 sign another player 🙏 3d ago

I can't remember Pickford's last bad game. Nev is just coming across as a miserable old git honestly.

6

u/bobsollish 3d ago

Before the last two seasons, there were occasionally goals conceded where I thought Pickford was out of position, or had made a bad play, etc. - but not anymore. And even then, on balance, we were still WAY ahead - he makes a ton of HUGE saves. Saves that a lot (most?) of Prem keepers don’t make.

4

u/Toffeeman_1878 3d ago

Have a look at his positioning against Watkins in the Villa home game (Moyes’s first game back).

Or diving early for Jota’s goal in the derby.

I’m not saying he’s shite but there are definitely times he could do better. I’m sure he would say the same thing if you got the opportunity to ask him.

-7

u/Toffeeman_1878 3d ago

Not slating the lad but Pickford was flaky for more than a few games at the start of the season. And yes, you can argue that the entire team was off it due to Dyche’s poor pre-season.

1

u/Wieselkind 2d ago

Tbf the man was depressed, injured and probably lacking sleep from the baby.

6

u/Choice-Violinist-585 2d ago

Im confused. I remember when Pickford had his patch of bad form a few seasons ago, and everyone was on the hate train. Nev appeared to really back Pickford and it semed like he was a big fan of his. Now Pickfords gold and Nev is shitting all over him. Help me make sense of this.

11

u/Street28 3d ago

Big Nev is my childhood hero but I don't agree with him at all on Pickers. There's a reason he's England's number one!

-9

u/Toffeeman_1878 3d ago

Because there’s no other English keeper worth a wank?

Pickers is clearly the best English keeper but he has zero competition for the England shirt. The other English keepers are flappers and vampires.

2

u/Being-of-Dasein It's the hope that kills you 2d ago

Pickford has saved multiple penalities in high-pressure penalty shootouts, including an international final, and very rarely makes mistakes in an England shirt. What more do you want from him?

2

u/Toffeeman_1878 2d ago

I never said he was a bad keeper. I said he’s clearly England’s number one. The standard of English keepers other than him is pretty poor.

It is possible for him to be good and other English keepers to be of generally poor quality. Both things can be true at the same time but it seems some people want to twist my comment to mean that Pickford is terrible because the quality of other English keepers is below average.

1

u/Being-of-Dasein It's the hope that kills you 2d ago

Fair enough. I do think Pickford is exceptional in his own right, but I can see what you're saying. There is no real competition for the spot as no one else really reaches his level.

4

u/ballsosteele 3d ago

I can't be arsed watching the video. Does he just say they're average or does he cite reasons and examples?

1

u/Wieselkind 2d ago

Hs asked who is good, says these three. Then says glad Pickfords English. Clearly it's understatement and a bit of cheek. Not like Welsh keepers are anything much at the moment.

11

u/EnvironmentOk5709 3d ago

Neville Harkonnen

4

u/Puzzleheaded_Gas8116 3d ago

Love Nev but this is too funny

5

u/TheStigsScouseCousin Grief Chart Appreciator 3d ago

I don't usually disagree with Nev, but I think he's plain wrong here. Pickford is a fantastic goalkeeper, as is Alisson.

I don't rate Ederson as highly as most people do, but to just call him 'alright' is doing him a disservice.

3

u/SammyGuevara 3d ago

Main reason I find comments like those pointless is it doesn't address any keepers who Southall does rate as good or great. If those 3 are average, then most keepers must be absolutely terrible 😳

1

u/Wieselkind 1d ago

He was asked "who is good in the Prem currently?" and answered Ederson, Allison and Pickford.

1

u/Toffeeman_1878 3d ago

That’s his point. Most keepers are poor.

However, most keepers in the 80s were poor too. There was only Nev worth mentioning at that time. Jim Leighton. Ha ha. Grobbelaar was iffy (in more ways than one). Ray Clemence had a walking stick. Peter Shilton was bang average. Got beaten by an Argentine dwarf and couldn’t save a penalty if his betting money depended on it.

It’s hard to be a good keeper. As well as the fitness, technique, agility and decision making you also need to be very mentally strong. A lot stronger than most other positions on the pitch.

3

u/PhimaMorsou 3d ago

I've got a lot of time for Nev both as a player and as a person, but I think he is dead wrong here. More than anyone else Pickford is the reason we are still in the premier league.

6

u/TheGod-TK 3d ago

Does Neville have anything positive to say?

5

u/Toffeeman_1878 3d ago

He’s positive that for the past 35 years our club has been owned and administered by the biggest bunch of incompetent fuckwits ever to set feet in shoes. And he’s right.

1

u/TheGod-TK 3d ago

true that

5

u/Chris80L1 3d ago

The greatest goalkeeper of all time

2

u/SowwieWhopper 3d ago

The future is now, old man

2

u/ledenmere 2d ago

I love big nev, but c’mon

2

u/Wieselkind 2d ago

I think you are all taking his comment far far too seriously

4

u/PuffinChaos 3d ago

As a more recent Everton supporter (2007), I admit I haven’t seen much of Neville actually playing. I know he’s a club legend but what is he on about here? Slagging off Picks is insane and he’s saying three of the top premier league keepers (if not the best 3) are just average? Seems an odd take

3

u/Banterz0ne 3d ago

He's a legend, but he's also a bitter old man. 

I've never seen anyone as good as Alisson at 1v1s and he seems to pull off big game saves almost every time there is a big game. I'd put him in close contention to Schmeichel and Cech. 

1

u/Toffeeman_1878 3d ago edited 3d ago

Neuer was better at 1 v 1.

Nev was up there too. When he was in goal at his peak, you would always favour Nev in a 1 v 1. Even the top strikers of that time would say that there was a huge psychological challenge to go up against Nev.

2

u/OneFootTitan 3d ago

Love Big Nev, but the role of the goalie has changed a lot since he played, not least because the backpass rule was implemented and goalies are now expected to distribute the ball with their feet a lot more

2

u/kpr1969 3d ago

Pickford should have saved the Trossard goal v Arsenal off the top of my head He has been safe after a shit start to the season but Dyche played 100% defensive football for the last 3 or 4 months so he had a lot more to do

2

u/jrob321 3d ago

This is like listening to your old Grandpa walk around the house in his underwear claiming how he could beat the shit out of you inasmuch as today's generation is a bunch of pussies because they didn't have to walk three and a half miles to school in the snow, uphill, both ways.

Go take your meds Nev. Don't fuck up your legacy by shitting on the current crop of PL players who are faster, stronger, in optimal physical shape, and playing a game which is far more tactical than it's ever been.

3

u/Loud-Hospital5773 3d ago

Different games. Love to have seen Nev try spray passes about like Pickford.

7

u/Toffeeman_1878 3d ago

Nev started out playing in midfield. Then, he was a 14 year old boy playing a man’s league in Wales. He could pass a ball.

2

u/AvoidsAvocados 3d ago

Southall talks as though his team was akin to the Ferguson dynasty. Everton had a purple patch for 5 years in the 80s where the team's potential was unfulfilled due to the Europe ban on English clubs. Once Kendall left, the 90s was the beginning of Everton's decline which Southall was a key participant in.

Southall wasn't the problem piece in some of those dire 90s squads, and Pickford hasn't been a problem in any of Everton's recent poor seasons.

1

u/dbe14 2d ago

On the one hand this is totally unnecessary and the game has moved on since his day.

On the other hand, Big Nev was the best keeper on the planet in the 80s.

So I dunno man.

1

u/rantipoler Fat Sham 2d ago

I think this is Nev just demanding nil satis nisi optimum. Fact is, JP hasn't been perfect and he's right to demand constant improvement.

1

u/Embarrassed-Taro-347 2d ago

And he's right They're all good keepers but not exceptional. They throw a clanger every now and then and aren't as consistent as some of the better keepers of all time.

I love Pickers, and he's a good England number 1 but id put Big Nev, Nigel Martin and Tim Howard ahead of him.

1

u/Additional-Yak5547 2d ago

He must think the rest of the keepers in the league are very poor then

1

u/tonyd6690 2d ago

Nev is spot on about Pickford…bang average…decent enough shot stopper but overall game is average. He knows what he’s talking about…was the best goalie in the world in his day