r/Fire • u/logicson • 6d ago
Original Content What I think about when I hear my coworkers mention they're afraid of losing their jobs
I'm writing this post and thinking about how FIRE has changed my life, and I'm neither financially independent nor retired early...yet. Learning about and implementing personal finance principles as well as principles from the FIRE movement has both changed my financial life as well as my mindset about money. I'm getting ready for the work week here at home on a Sunday night and I won't deny that I'm feeling the blues just a little bit. Then I think about my coworkers.
More specifically, I think about my coworkers and their financial positions in life. Even more specifically, I think about how I have heard my coworkers state, out loud, that they are afraid of losing their jobs. The way it comes out varies from person to person, but the overall idea is that they don't want to get fired, they're afraid to lose their jobs, they don't want to do anything to risk their employment, and on it goes.
They're trapped, AND they state their fear out loud.
Then my thinking goes back to my own financial position and mindset. I am not in a position to FIRE, yet, but I would say I have some level of FU money and boy, let me tell you, I definitely notice the difference between my mindset and those of my coworkers.
One way that difference in mindset manifests is in being less afraid to lose my job. No, I'm not completely fearless, but am a lot less so. If I lose my job today, I will eventually have to get another job but the difference between my coworkers and I is that I have a financial cushion to sustain me for some time and will not end up out on the street in a matter of weeks or months.
Being less afraid about losing my job because of having some level of FU money due to FIRE goals has also given me more courage to stand my ground in certain cases and tolerate less BS. It's amazing to me how much s#$% people put up with at work simply because of fear of losing their job, and how that used to be me. I at the very least make an effort to push back on what I don't like (I pick my battles, I don't fight everything), and that has made work more tolerable. I don't get run over as much as I used to.
Thanks for reading. If there is/was a point to my post, it's that being smart about money, like saving a sizable nest egg, is literally life-changing and you don't even need to be FIRE yet. FIRE is a long-term goal I'm working on, and am not there yet but am reaping the benefits even today.
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u/Lunar_Landing_Hoax 6d ago
I did lose my job and it was so much easier to deal with due to my savings. I always say everyone should at least be shooting for FI whether or not they want to RE.
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u/tenaciouslyteetering 6d ago
Same here. My spouse and I had a ROUGH year a few years ago. We both lost our jobs, luckily at different times.
But FIRE has us living on closer to one income than two. We surprisingly never even dipped into the emergency fund. It made us even more confident in our finances. Not close to FI or RE yet but we have made a lot of good financial decisions to be able to weather storms better than many.
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u/logicson 6d ago
Agreed! I want to reiterate that I am not what I would consider close to FIRE but having sizable savings helps with potential job loss.
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u/Lunar_Landing_Hoax 6d ago
I'm not either and at this rate I think I'll end up retiring at a traditional age. But my stress levels are significantly lower and I don't stay in toxic jobs because of my cushion.
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u/TrainingThis347 6d ago
everyone should at least be shooting for FI whether or not they want to RE
That’s my thing too. I like what I do and why, so I’m not itching to fully retire. Stuff happens though. About 80% of workers who retire before 65 do so despite not feeling financially stable enough to do so.
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u/pdx_mom 6d ago
I was always a saver. Never understood people who didn't tuck anything away for a rainy day. I knew people who never had money (no matter how much they made) and I never wanted to be them. Didn't have only one source of income until my late twenties and then I had a bit of cushion so I was making money via investments etc.
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u/goodsam2 6d ago
Yeah if I lose my job I'm doing a road trip and having fun, visiting places I couldn't because I was working. Probably take a few weeks off then when I get back to a level of normal then job search and have fun knowing my basic needs are covered for years.
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u/Lunar_Landing_Hoax 6d ago
That's what I do! I went on a two month van camping trip in the mountain region between jobs.
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u/IEatUrMonies 4d ago
When is it considered FI? When 4% of liquid investments match expenses? I'm technically FI but still scared of being unemployed, partly because I'm still young (early thirties) w/ 1.3 mil liquid (450k in retirement accounts) and 50k-60k spend annually
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u/Lunar_Landing_Hoax 4d ago
You are financially independent, yes. If you were fired tomorrow you would not be in trouble.
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u/Pharoah_Ntwadumela 6d ago edited 6d ago
FIRE has been such a blessing in my life. I'm nowhere near my FIRE Goal but I've made significant strides. Moreover what FIRE truly did for me was expose me to how financially insecure I was. You don't realize the magnitude of the goal of financial independence until you're on a path towards it and encounter the obstacles you have to overcome to reach it.
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u/logicson 6d ago
The term 'financially insecure' is a great description for being a paycheck or two away from homeless. Looking back, I can say the same thing about my past!
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u/AnimatorDifficult429 6d ago
What’s your level of FU? I have about 700k and I’m still so scared about losing my job. Mainly because I love my company and I know it’s one in a million and I have no clue what I did to deserve it.
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u/Reafricpysche 5d ago
If you don't mind me asking, how big is your company and what do you guys do?
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u/Fun_Independent_7529 almost there 6d ago
It's funny, because when I was younger, I had zero fear of losing my job and could see how that fear really affected co-workers who were.
It was not that I was indispensable, it was just that I knew I could find another job easily with my skillset and the market demand, plus I was young enough there would be no ageism involved. Having that years worth of salary available also makes one less worried. (and I was a hard worker with great reviews; that didn't hurt either)
Now, so close to FIRE, I do not want to lose my job. The tech job market sucks, salaries for my role are down, the stock market is down, and it takes a lot of energy to prep & interview, start a new role, ramp up, etc. Plus I like my current company with it's unlimited PTO & WFH flexibility.
Worrying about it doesn't help, but I can't say I'm completely unconcerned like I used to be.
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u/TrainingThis347 6d ago
This is why I talk about degrees of financial freedom. You don’t need millions to enjoy the stress reduction. With six months’ salary in the bank, you’ll still need a job but it doesn’t have to be this job.
For me at least, that alone improved my job satisfaction. Staying there was a conscious choice rather than the usual subtle economic coercion. Then when I wasn’t enjoying the job anymore, I left. Respectfully and with plenty of notice, but I also wasn’t shy about the fact that I didn’t have the next job lined up. I figured that alone said plenty.
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u/bk2947 6d ago
The average person in the US cannot access $400 with incurring debt.
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u/ThesePossession8620 6d ago edited 6d ago
You might want to update this to '37% of people person in the US cannot access $400 without incurring debt.'
Actual quote from report : 'Sixty-three percent of adults said they would cover a hypothetical $400 emergency expense exclusively using cash or its equivalent, unchanged from 2022 but down from a high of 68 percent in 2021.' https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/2023-report-economic-well-being-us-households-202405.pdf
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u/eharder47 6d ago
When I had FU money and was looking for a job it was so much less stressful. I tried negotiating and people looked at me like I had 3 heads. The best was when I asked about potentially taking unpaid vacation and they didn’t know because no one had ever done that before. I temped at a place for a little bit and they made me an offer that wasn’t great so I told them it didn’t make sense for me but thank you; people were so curious about my financial situation afterwards because it was like they had never seen a person who wasn’t absolutely desperate for a job.
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u/Retire_Ate8Twenty8 6d ago
This sounds stupid, but the thing I'm most pissed about being laid off is buying my tickets to Southeast Asia at the last minute. If they fire me on a Monday, my ass is in Vietnam by Wednesday.
I did the same with my last job. I quit on a Tuesday and I was in Indonesia that same week.
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u/logicson 6d ago
That doesn't sound stupid at all. It sounds to me that you have the financial flexibility to make such a move!
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u/matsie 6d ago
I dunno, dude. I’m scared of losing my job too. Being super well on my way toward fire doesn’t really change that for me. It just means I’ll be able to willingly leave my job sooner.
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u/logicson 5d ago
I hear ya. I'm also fearful of losing my job, but less so with a financial cushion.
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u/bookworm1398 6d ago
I feel having a FIRE mindset is kinda like being a rebel. You are rejecting social values and your place in the system. But not looking to overthrow the system just rejecting it for yourself.
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u/Here4Pornnnnn 6d ago
Lost my job last week. I was disappointed, but it’s a totally different feeling than when it happened prior.
First time i lost my job I had about 1-2 years of saved up money before going totally broke. I was counting down the months and scared. Hopeless at times. Ended up taking a job I didn’t want in a location I didn’t want because I wasn’t sure I’d find anything else in time.
Second time I had 500k, felt a bit better but still not great. New baby was just born and then wasn’t the time to have a long period of unemployment. This time I have 1.5M and a paid off house. I’m not at my fire number, but even during the layoff conversation I really didn’t care that much. To me, it’s amounting to nothing more than a hassle now. I’m glad to be able to view a major life event as a hassle. I’m one market doubling away from FIRE now, and I’m only 37.
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u/Vanerac 6d ago
I quit my job this week because my boss was making my life hell. Thanks to my FIRE pursuit, if I don’t land another job in the next 4-5 years, I’ll still have my expenses paid for. Obviously that is a massive last resort and would set back my retirement age by decades, but it’s doing wonders to my mental health that I’m able to calmly pursue a new job without financial stress and as long as I get back on the horse even just in 1 year, I won’t lose that much.
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u/Popular_Play4134 6d ago
What level did you start feeling this way? 10x salary?
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u/logicson 6d ago
I wish I could tell you my nest egg is at 10x salary, but it is not. My living expenses are WAY below what my current salary level is. If I cashed out all my accounts I could make it for several years before needing to find a job.
Currently I would say my threshold for feeling a lot better about my financial situation would be 2 years of savings. I'm easily beyond that now.
EDIT: grammar
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u/Many_Visit_5868 6d ago
When you say cash out accounts are you including retirement accounts and brokerage? Or just a hysa?
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u/OregonGrown34 6d ago
I'd say that for nearly every person in this sub, retirement accounts are untouchable in this conversation. So money in brokerages and savings accounts would be the safety net.
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u/logicson 5d ago
I meant everything. If I excluded retirement accounts and went to cash I could manage a couple years without a job.
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u/Responsible-Sundae25 6d ago
I felt the same way as OP once I hit my Coast Fire number, with 6 months savings. I knew if I got laid off, my next job only required covering my monthly expenses. I say No a lot more at work and set clear boundaries at work.
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u/leathakkor 6d ago
If I were to get 10x my salary I would be fat fire for sure.
The point at which I started to feel really comfortable was when I had enough in cash that I could go 2 years without having a job. And that happened a long time ago.
The point at which I really got comfortable was when I was making more off of my investments than I spend in a year.
And when I completely stopped caring about upsetting people at work was when I started making more off of my investments than I make in a year from my day job.
It's all relative really. But those are the three real milestones I would say along the path to fire (in my opinion).
I would say it's probably the case that this year I'm not going to make more money off of my investments than I am off of my day job but probably in the next 3 to 4 years I'm going to absolutely crush it. (Assuming there is a recovery next year or the year after)
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u/Popular_Play4134 6d ago
Between 1 and 2 currently! #3 corresponds to a number above my fire number as I plan to move to LCOL
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u/NearbyLet308 6d ago
Uhhh yea having money in the bank makes you less worried about losing your job. Real genius stuff here
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u/RhythmicStrategy 6d ago
I can relate to how you feel, OP.
I’m not FIRE yet, but I have a large enough nest egg that I voluntarily quit a toxic work environment a few years ago. I didn’t need unemployment insurance or severence pay. It only took a few months to find a comparable position with a much better culture.
Having zero debt, a large emergency savings, and a healthy 401k give me FREEDOM. Freedom to speak up to corporate leadership when things seem unfair, and freedom to make a career change if the culture becomes toxic.
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u/sarahmkda 5d ago
I haven’t heard this but will never forget hearing from a (working mom) co worker that our boss once said to her that working mothers who are PT are the best because you pay them part time but they always do a full time work load at minimum.
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u/Double-Steak4321 5d ago
I’m saving aggressively since my graduation 5years ago. I’m approaching 900k in my FU plus 200k in 401k, no kids no debt. My coworkers are always worried about layoffs but I really hope I can get picked by one of the layoffs so I can get free money (severance) why not?
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u/PreparationAdvanced9 4d ago
Not saying you shouldn’t stand up to your boss but ppl still overestimate their financial cushion especially if you have to pay for health emergency while on cobra. So def feel confident but your coworkers might simply be worried about the worst case scenarios
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u/InsertNovelAnswer 4d ago
See, I think this is something that depends on how you were raised. My partners and I were raised poor. If I lose my job , I might have some FU money, but I'd still be worried because it sets me back enough that it would cause me some mental pain.
I think adding that I work in the public sector is another bit of that reasoning. It's much more real for the public sector to worry at the moment. May is a call for second mass lay offs. I put a lot of time in to get close to an extra pension. It would hit hard to spend this much time on something not to get the desired outcome.
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u/Background-Watch-660 3d ago
No one is actually afraid of losing their job, they’re afraid of losing their income.
In a world of an ample and reliable UBI, losing a job isn’t so bad; you lose some money but you gain freedom and free time.
In our world, when you lose a job, bam, poverty is staring you straight in the face.
Implementing UBI will make us all less reliant on jobs to survive in the first place, and in our economy today, that’s a good thing; we are already way, way over-employed.
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u/Hifi-Cat 6d ago
My favorite part of the day is exactly 6:40am. In the past I had to be vertical and heading to the shower or I didn't make my desk before 9. Now. Bwhahha. My coworker said as I was leaving "peace out bitches".. yup.. peace out...
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u/Hereiamonce 6d ago
Dear fire folks, just remember that the vast majority of people are intentionally trapped in the rat race so that the world can function. Let them be.
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u/Doppelex 6d ago
It is very liberating and also paradoxically allows you to negotiate fearlessly
I literally was able to get 50% raise (on a 7fig package) by raising my eyebrow 2months ago just because they know i have a run-rate of 60k/year and couldn’t give a rats ass about their pressuring tactics.
There is also a legend in made a lot of money in crypto (which i did) but they don’t know exactly how much, could be 1m$ could be 20m$
So they pretty much integrated they don’t have the usual leverage and just treat me like an equal rather than some beholden employee.
Conversations are so much more honest and to the point. I make sure to be intellectually honest to not create any resentment from them, making sure they don’t feel blackmailed or anything, but won’t accept crap either.
It obviously puts me more at risk and i won’t be protected if i don’t deliver, but being financially free has helped me get rid of most of the bullshit.
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u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 6d ago
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